TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #2

[belimom]

I have given these SO's so much rope to prove themselves not guilty and
for me to be wrong but that happens few and far between.

These women need to stop thinking they are the lucky ones, 'because
he would never hurt' me. Now a days that's just dreaming. You need
to stay alert when seeking a divorce. You've lived with him.
What is his personality like?

Why were papers served after she left town?
Was he an angry man? jealous of her, did he think it would
ruiin him financially? And to stay in the same home I believe is very
risky. You have no way of knowing what his reaction to anything
might be at this point. And then there are the children. Is he upset
they won't be living with him all the time?

I believe that is why you should go to a shelter and then serve the
divorce papers. It may sound drastic to some but at least you and
your children will be safe. This just seems the road all these victims
take. I can't even remember all of them. Susan Powell comes to mind.
And Stacie Peterson. Gail P. It can't be some random men out there
making women who just sought a divorce dissappear. To me these
cases are very telling.

These threads go rather quickly and I try to keep up. That said,
I don't know if this has been mentioned or not. JMO

bbm

Thank you. That needs repeating. When my mother filed for divorce, she and I drove to another town and stayed in a hotel for two nights while my dad was served, then went back, packed her suitcase, and she went back home with me (600 miles away).

I had a friend who played hooky from work one day at a neighbor's house. When her husband left, she and the neighbor went back, packed up her things, and left. She then had him served with papers.

You can never be too careful. I just wish more women realized that.

 

[bendrn]

Regarding the daughter getting up at 6:00am, I brainstormed as best I could early on a Sunday morning:

1) she was sick and didn't feel well (although, I'm beginning to doubt that she was sick to begin with...)

2) she was awakened by her sister if they normally don't share a bed (e.g., feet poking someone, arm in the face, etc - happens with my kids when they end up in the same bed)

3) the sun started coming up and the light woke her - IF they were not supposed to be there that night, then it's possible that the blinds/curtains weren't closed at the usual bedtime.

4) she heard something that woke her - a door shutting, etc. - although she probably doesn't remember what woke her (or maybe she does and has told LE).

I'm betting on Number 4: her sleep being disturbed by someone/something.

I am with you on Number 4. Something woke her, followed by a sense of something's not right; hey, where's my mom? How did I end up in THIS bed? What's going on?

 

[SmoothOperator]

But whats not being discussed is that Karen had an iPhone therefor regardless of the ping we wouldn't need to triangulate to find her location.. Her phone was equipped with full gps that's why I said they would know the exact spot it was powered off/batteries removed/chunked in river..

 

[TxLady2]

I have given these SO's so much rope to prove themselves not guilty and
for me to be wrong but that happens few and far between.

These women need to stop thinking they are the lucky ones, 'because
he would never hurt' me. Now a days that's just dreaming. You need
to stay alert when seeking a divorce. You've lived with him.
What is his personality like?

Why were papers served after she left town?
Was he an angry man? jealous of her, did he think it would
ruiin him financially? And to stay in the same home I believe is very
risky. You have no way of knowing what his reaction to anything
might be at this point. And then there are the children. Is he upset
they won't be living with him all the time?

I believe that is why you should go to a shelter and then serve the
divorce papers. It may sound drastic to some but at least you and
your children will be safe. This just seems the road all these victims
take. I can't even remember all of them. Susan Powell comes to mind.
And Stacie Peterson. Gail P. It can't be some random men out there
making women who just sought a divorce dissappear. To me these
cases are very telling.

These threads go rather quickly and I try to keep up. That said,
I don't know if this has been mentioned or not. JMO

I doubt that he was ever abusive to her, she married him twice and they have 2 grown sons. Seems to me that either of the boys would know if there was any abuse going on and they certainly have not given any indication of that, to my knowledge.
Believe it or not, there are couples who divorce each other without any animosity, they just grow apart and don't want to be married anymore.
Common sense tells me that if he was so abusive that she had to sneak away while the papers were being served, then why on earth would she come back and live in the same house with him? Doesn't sound to me like she was afraid of him or feared for her life.
You know, this could just as easily have been some new guy she had just met, maybe a jealous type. I see no reason to assume that it was the husband just because SOME men choose to kill their wives. Not all divorces end up with one of them dead. There are plenty of couples who get a divorce and stay friends with each other, because of their children.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I doubt that he was ever abusive to her, she married him twice and they have 2 grown sons. Seems to me that either of the boys would know if there was any abuse going on and they certainly have not given any indication of that, to my knowledge.
Believe it or not, there are couples who divorce each other without any animosity, they just grow apart and don't want to be married anymore.

It's not the fact that they were married twice, but the fact that she wanted to divorce him for a second time.

Getting remarried and having two more children would probably come with promises that they would never get divorced again, right? And yet that's apparently what she wanted to do.

So knowing human nature, we can definitely see how that might make someone angry, and cause animosity that wasn't there in the first divorce.

You know, this could just as easily have been some new guy she had just met, maybe a jealous type.

If there's another guy involved, they sure are keeping it quiet. And they would have to find something to prove he had been around that area in the middle of the night, or in her car, or something.

 

[stillwatersc]

I understood it was somewhat normal for them to wake at that hour. Maybe she heard her dad was up. What is interesting though, if she noticed her mother missing after she got up and wandered around the house, or if she thought it odd that mother wasn't still in bed with her?

My 9yo DD always wakes up around the same time every day - the time that she gets up to go to school. That is the way her bio clock is set.

 

[parker38]

I doubt that he was ever abusive to her, she married him twice and they have 2 grown sons. Seems to me that either of the boys would know if there was any abuse going on and they certainly have not given any indication of that, to my knowledge.
Believe it or not, there are couples who divorce each other without any animosity, they just grow apart and don't want to be married anymore.
Common sense tells me that if he was so abusive that she had to sneak away while the papers were being served, then why on earth would she come back and live in the same house with him? Doesn't sound to me like she was afraid of him or feared for her life.
You know, this could just as easily have been some new guy she had just met, maybe a jealous type. I see no reason to assume that it was the husband just because SOME men choose to kill their wives. Not all divorces end up with one of them dead. There are plenty of couples who get a divorce and stay friends with each other, because of their children.

And that's exactly the point. By staying at the house with him after
Karen serving divorce papers, does tell me she trusted him as someone
who wouldn't hurt her. BUT being older and wiser she obviously
believed nothing had changed with him since the first divorce.
We'll never know what their life was like the second time around.
Funny no one has come forward to tell us what they know of him.
Or stand by him. Only one I saw was her girlfriend on one of
those talk shows.
And no, all divorces don't end up with the wife dead but for some
reason this one just might have.
There had to be a reason she and the children left on the day he
was served. Still, that to me is very telling.
I also think that her girlfriend mentioned Karen was all excited to
move on with her children and take care of them. Nothing was
ever mentioned about any boyfriend or new guy in her life.
Again, could be true but we'll never know. JMO

 

[Tugela]

There is another more obvious reason to not be there when the papers were served....you might not want to see the dissappointment in their face, especially if it was you who was pulling the plug because life together wasn't going where you wanted it to go. Most people avoid conflict, her not being there may simply be that.

That is why many many relationships end remotely, not face to face.

 

[Indy Anna]

There is another more obvious reason to not be there when the papers were served....you might not want to see the dissappointment in their face, especially if it was you who was pulling the plug because life together wasn't going where you wanted it to go. Most people avoid conflict, her not being there may simply be that.

That is why many many relationships end remotely, not face to face.

Another possibility is that KS was worried about her daughters' reaction when their dad was served the divorce papers. Divorce is devastating for children who love both parents very much. Karen wouldn't have wanted to talk to the girls about the divorce before their dad was served b/c the girls wouldn't have been able to conceal their hurt and the knowledge of what was about to happen. It would make sense that Karen would take the girls away for a few days to talk with them and prepare them for the situation when they returned home.

 

[MagnoliaMom]

Dyersburg is getting a light dusting of snow mix and some freezing weather. I pray it kills the brush and clears a path to find Karen.

 

[LindaG]

While doing a search, I came across a crime news site that had some additional information on the case. I didn't think I should include the link to another site. If it is OK to link, or give a name, let me know. Here are a few excerpts:

Dyersburg, TN- 44 year old Mother of four Karen Johnson Swift has been missing since early Sunday morning following the drop off of her two youngest children at the marital home where the couple continue to reside following Ms. Swift’s divorce filing October 10, 2011....

David Swift, Karen’s estranged husband, has told police Karen left the home at approximately 1:30 am the morning of October 30th....

Although David Swift has been interviewed by Dyer County Sheriff ‘s Office, it is unclear at this time why Karen would have left the home again after dropping off the couples two young daughters, or why she would not have called her husband for assistance following discovery of the the alleged flat tire....

According to the Dyersburg Country Club by laws, regardless of handicap all attendees turned into pumpkins by midnight that evening so it is not likely Karen was headed back there. Reports of her leaving the family residence at that hour are based solely on her husband’s last exchange with her....

While Mr. Swift has refused all requests for comment by the media, he is also now refusing to speak to investigators and has referred all inquiries to his recently retained attorney....

David Swift refused to allow a search by consent of the couple’s 5 acre property after the first meeting where he allowed officers to look throughout the home for purposes of confirming Karen was not there. In contrast to Mr. Swift’s refusal to allow LE to search his adjacent property, Mr. Hogshooter allowed his home and property to be searched voluntarily....

Swift’s car was found across from the home of John Hogshooter at 310 Harness RD.

 

[belimom]

LindaG, it's okay to include a link to another site. If there's a problem, then it will be **** out, and you'll know that you can't quote from that site. Is it a long article? I think for copyright purposes, we can only quote no more than 10% of the article? Hope this helps... :seeya:

You're right - there is add'l info there. And it made me think of something else when I read it: did her husband actually know that she left the property? If he saw her on the landing then went back to bed, how did he know she left? He must not have seen her walk out the door or he would have said so, right? So did he hear the door close? Did he hear her car start and hear it or see the lights as it went down the driveway?

I'm sure these are details that LE has already asked about.

 

[ginert]

While doing a search, I came across a crime news site that had some additional information on the case. I didn't think I should include the link to another site. If it is OK to link, or give a name, let me know. Here are a few excerpts:

Dyersburg, TN- 44 year old Mother of four Karen Johnson Swift has been missing since early Sunday morning following the drop off of her two youngest children at the marital home where the couple continue to reside following Ms. Swift’s divorce filing October 10, 2011....

David Swift, Karen’s estranged husband, has told police Karen left the home at approximately 1:30 am the morning of October 30th....

Although David Swift has been interviewed by Dyer County Sheriff ‘s Office, it is unclear at this time why Karen would have left the home again after dropping off the couples two young daughters, or why she would not have called her husband for assistance following discovery of the the alleged flat tire....

This case is so hard to sleuth because none of the stories match. This is totally opposite than what the son said stating the mom and one daughter came home, changed into their pajamas and laid down together. Sometime during the middle of the night the 9-year old was moved to her sister's bed. I wonder which account is accurate? Really confusing...

 

[OldSteve]

Compared to other recent "missing persons" cases - LE appears to have allot evidence to check out in this case.
Unfortunately, we do not have privy to it all, and what the findings are showing.
Just because KS continued to live with her STBX doesn't mean much based on my experience in these matters - it's amazing how the mood of things can quickly change.
On the surface a STBX might appear okay with things; meanwhile who knows what plans might be brewing....

 

[otto]

I doubt that he was ever abusive to her, she married him twice and they have 2 grown sons. Seems to me that either of the boys would know if there was any abuse going on and they certainly have not given any indication of that, to my knowledge.
Believe it or not, there are couples who divorce each other without any animosity, they just grow apart and don't want to be married anymore.
Common sense tells me that if he was so abusive that she had to sneak away while the papers were being served, then why on earth would she come back and live in the same house with him? Doesn't sound to me like she was afraid of him or feared for her life.
You know, this could just as easily have been some new guy she had just met, maybe a jealous type. I see no reason to assume that it was the husband just because SOME men choose to kill their wives. Not all divorces end up with one of them dead. There are plenty of couples who get a divorce and stay friends with each other, because of their children.

I understood that she didn't want to put the children in an unstable home situation, so she decided to leave them in the matrimonial home until she could establish a home for herself and the children. This doesn't mean that she didn't have concerns about being with her husband - clearly she did, or she wouldn't have taken the children away when her husband was served with the papers. It also suggests to me that she was torn between trying to do what was best for the children - stable home life, and what was best for her - divorce. Since what was best for her was to be divorced (something that directly contradicted what was best for the children at the time), being in the home with a man that was facing splitting his assets and perhaps losing his children could not possibly have been a good situation.

If they were divorcing because they were bored, then sure - there's no danger in continuing to live together. I understood she was divorcing him because there were serious problems in the marriage - meaning there would be a danger in continuing to live together.

 

[otto]

But whats not being discussed is that Karen had an iPhone therefor regardless of the ping we wouldn't need to triangulate to find her location.. Her phone was equipped with full gps that's why I said they would know the exact spot it was powered off/batteries removed/chunked in river..

That's not quite right ...

"Sheriff Box also noted that cell phone records show the last known activity from Swift's cell phone was at 5 a.m. on Oct. 30, 2011. That activity from her phone was reported to have been an automatic Internet access by the phone itself and not by an individual. The access was only detected by one cell phone tower, which made it impossible for the cellular providers to provide law enforcement with a precise location that can be triangulated when a phone has access on multiple towers."

..

"These areas are within the range limits of the reporting sector antenna and of equal distance from the cellular tower as the distance reported during the 5 a.m. activity from Swift's phone.

Other locations in Dyer County, which are of equal distance of the phone activity to the cell phone tower, have been deemed as areas of interest and searched during the investigation are:

1. Location where Karen Swift's car was found on Millsfield Highway

2. Karen Swift's home on Willie Johnson Road

3. The Obion River on Highway 78

4. The Whites Lake area in western Dyer County"

Nov 25, 2011
http://www.timesnews.net/article/9038740

 

[OldSteve]

Is it possible that even though her phone was capable of GPS, she might have that feature turned off?
(More devious would be if the feature had been turned off, and wasn't aware of that.)
Curious if in he upcoming the divorce there was going to be custody fight? I've always found that to be a major red flag when a wife goes missing during a divorce, and the husband was fighting for custody of children.

 

[otto]

Is it possible that even though her phone was capable of GPS, she might have that feature turned off?
(More devious would be if the feature had been turned off, and wasn't aware of that.)
Curious if in he upcoming the divorce there was going to be custody fight? I've always found that to be a major red flag when a wife goes missing during a divorce, and the husband was fighting for custody of children.

I think that the husband would have been pretty upset about the situation. He's got the big family house in the country with swimming pool and all the trimmings. He seems to work independently (google search) bringing in about $67k annually. He appears to be a hard working guy that provided for his family for the last 20-25 years. He was facing the possibility of having to liquidate to split the assets, pay child support for the next 10-15 years, perhaps have limited access to his daughters ... or perhaps he'd be left with the house and was facing life alone in a big house meant for a family. Either way, his future was looking grim, and not anything like what he had hoped and built for the last 20 years. Holding on to the children would at least have filled his home and his life with something ... with his wife and children gone, it was probably looking rather deadend to him. Sure, over time everyone rebuilds their lives ... but it wasn't something he seems to have wanted or planned for and that can lead to a lot of anger.

 

[EllaMae]

I understood that she didn't want to put the children in an unstable home situation, so she decided to leave them in the matrimonial home until she could establish a home for herself and the children. This doesn't mean that she didn't have concerns about being with her husband - clearly she did, or she wouldn't have taken the children away when her husband was served with the papers. It also suggests to me that she was torn between trying to do what was best for the children - stable home life, and what was best for her - divorce. Since what was best for her was to be divorced (something that directly contradicted what was best for the children at the time), being in the home with a man that was facing splitting his assets and perhaps losing his children could not possibly have been a good situation.

If they were divorcing because they were bored, then sure - there's no danger in continuing to live together. I understood she was divorcing him because there were serious problems in the marriage - meaning there would be a danger in continuing to live together.

BBM...

An unstable home is also one where there's physical abuse, so I can't see Karen staying with her children in that kind of enviroment. It wouldn't be the best thing to keep those little girls around a violent man. I don't think Mr. Swift was guilty of physical abuse. I would guess that maybe he would try to manipulate his wife with guilt, and with financial concerns, and perhaps become verbally angry and somewhat abusive. Name calling and accusations are pretty common when one spouse wants a divorce and the other one doesn't. Any hold that can be used is tossed around, and the rejected spouse hopes it will stick. I believe Karen was worried about her financial status, and her ability to provide for her children. I think that was her husband's biggest hold on her.

She may have wanted to avoid an emotional scene when her STBX was served with the divorce papers, and to spare her young children from any exposure to their father's anger and grief. She clearly didn't expect him to take it well. But if she was actually afraid of him....why would she go back to live there with her children? I just can't see that.

If the husband did kill Karen, then I believe it was just something that spiraled out of control at that moment. I can't see it being an ongoing issue for 20 something years without one of the older children being aware of it.

JMHO...

 

[otto]

We cannot assume that there was physical violence, and there's no reason to assume that the absence of physical violence means there was no domestic abuse.

Courts don't equate domestic violence against a wife with presumed violence against children, and most parents assume the same thing. Furthermore, there are many forms of domestic violence: physical, psychological, sexual, financial, verbal ... and the list goes on. Verbal abuse can appear as "jokes", put downs that aren't funny for the target of the "joke". It's possible that after 20 years of some form of abuse, Karen had had enough. Also, she doesn't appear to have had funds to live independently ... that's not a good sign, espeically since it appears that they lived comfortably.

I suspect that Karen may have been concerned about her husband's reaction, but she may have believed that nothing would happen with the children in the house. Women in dangerous situations often don't seem to make the right decisions ... which is why there are so many victims of spousal homicide. I also suspect that as a husband gets closer to murdering a spouse, he becomes nicer to the victim ... to disarm her. That was something that always surprised me about Scott Peterson ... that he was so nice to Laci the day he murdered her.

The older children may have their heads in the sand, may side with the father, may think that certain types of domestic violence are humor that is taken badly ... and then there is the interview with the son that broke down when he said that his father couldn't have done anything ... will post the link when I come across it again ... but I thought that was an odd time for him to have an emotional break. Stating that his father was not involved should have been a solid, emotionless point ... something stated with confidence, not an emotional breakdown.