TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #2

[TxLady2]

No offense to anyone but these theories are a little bit of a stretch since most of it is based on pure speculation and the assumption that the husband is the one responsible. He has not been named a suspect nor a POI, so I think we should be a little more careful about pointing fingers until we know more details. There are not enough known facts to assume anything, other than the fact that she had filed for divorce. For all we know, he could have been okay with that.
Family from BOTH sides could be reading here, and I believe we should respect their feelings right now. I know I made a post the other day that seemed to offend a poster when my intentions were to point out that apparently no signs of foul play were found in the house or her car. I do apologize for that, and that is why I'm posting this now. This is JMO, no disrespect intended.

 

[TxLady2]

My brother in law is an avid deer hunter and he goes to great lengths to eliminate his own scent so that the deer are not aware of his presence. He uses a special soap to wash his clothing and something similar to treat his boots. He applies doe urine to some of his gear. If David is a deer hunter, and I expect that he is, this kind of behavior would not draw attention, would be easy for him to accomplish and he would have the materials on hand or could have purchased them earlier without suspicion. David could have performed this ritual sometime before dropping off Karen's car, in order to throw the dogs off of his scent. (hey, it works for the deer). I don't think Karen left the house after 1:30 a.m., after putting on her pajamas. What would have been important enough to leave her two little girls alone with her STBX - nothing. A stranger would not hide the body and remove the car to another location. I agree with those above who say David may have used an ATV. I think this was an outdoorsy family and had lots of outdoor skills and equipment. He certainly had enough time to prepare, with Karen at a party and the girls at a sleep-over. He could have pre-dug a hole in the woods.

I think checking the seat adjustment is brilliant. However, I am 5"2", and I always push my seat all the way back when exiting my car. Not sure if this is common for other short people, or not.

Another reason I think that both sisters attended the sleep-over is that I think Karen would want them to be together. If the 9 year old was home alone with dad and the six year old was off by herself at a sleep-over, Karen may have been too stressed out to stay late at a party.

Happy Thanksgiving everybody.

Is there any reason other than opinions to suspect that the dad would harm either one of his daughters in any way?? Your posts sound as if you know these people, otherwise you are assuming an awful lot about their behavior and habits.
Many young girls that age are invited to sleepovers with friends who are their own age and these invitations do not always include a younger sister. And dads often babysit their children while moms do other things. IMO, there is no reason to think Karen would have been worried about leaving either daughter at home alone with their dad.
I'm sorry, but it is way too early in this case to be making so many assumptions with no facts to back them up, UNLESS you know the family or are in touch with someone who does. Even then, it would be considered rumor.
No offense intended but this happens too often here and it is disturbing. I just prefer to stick to the things we know rather than having rumors morph into facts, even unintentionally. JMO.

 

[tarabull]

There IS an RSO registered at a home on Millsfield Hwy less than a mile from Karen's home...his prior conviction was for ASB on October 5, 2003.

Surely it was one of the first places LE checked for Karen.

:waitasec:

 

[MagnoliaMom]

Thx. I'm not sure what to think, but one possibility that comes to mind is that her husband planned her murder from the day of the divorce papers. He would have thought everything through very carefully. Points he would have carefully considered are how and where. How would have to be a soft kill to eliminate the home as a crime scene. Where is the bigger question, but I think it's possible that he dug something on the land behind the house. I do think they had ATVs, but I haven't read that anywhere. It's just that having two sons and a trail leading away from the house, it seems like something they would have. The large shed towards the back of the property seem like overkill for a tractor/lawnmower.

However, that goes against the location of the phone. The location of the phone seems like it could have been staged to again draw attention away from the home. The car being parked nearby was deliberate for two reasons - her disappearance is placed away from the home, but close enough to walk home from the car (for the husband).

The sad thing is that the longer she is missing, the less chance there is of determining cause of death when she is found - meaning it's easier for the murderer to get away with it.

I looked at the pics you posted a long time last night. I see three paths to that body of water. 2 of them are too close to houses/neighbors for me to think those would have been used. But 1 of those paths is pretty isolated.

If one was familiar with the terrain, one could easily zip across to the river and back on an SXS utilizing farm land and paved roads in an hr.

The car, clothes and phone IMO are a distraction to lead away from where Karen can be found. There are houses close by where the car was left. Most if not all of those home owners near the vehicle likely own guns. Whatever was done there was quick and quiet. I imagine some dogs in the area barked.

Using scent-lock clothing and doe in heat or doe urine would definitely mess up following a scent. Interesting thought.

I hope they find her soon.

 

[dovebar]

I'm thinking of those kids today and hoping for the best outcome for them.

In the picture of Karen, she is wearing very distinctive looping jewelry. Has LE said anything about jewelry being recovered? Does anyone know what jewelry she was wearing that night, if any?

 

[panthera]

My heart goes out to all these families that have missing loved ones. And Thanksgiving is here. Prayers to all families.

That is the saddest part today. Karen should be home preparing a meal for her family. My thoughts and prayers go out to them today as they try to celebrate Thanksgiving without her.

raying:

 

[tarabull]

There IS an RSO registered at a home on Millsfield Hwy less than a mile from Karen's home...his prior conviction was for ASB on October 5, 2003.

Surely it was one of the first places LE checked for Karen.

:waitasec:

ONLY .7 of a mile to be exact and where Karen's car was found is almost smack-dab in between Swift's home and the RSO's.

Her car was left .3 from a RSO's home.

 

[otto]

I was searching for something completely unrelated when this site came up: http://houseplans.sdsplans.com/

It's a Cape Cod style house, very similar to the Swift home. The bottom of the stairs is at the front door. I need to think about this some more, but I think the comment from the husband about seeing her at the bottom of the stairs is very odd, especially if they didn't have a conversation.

 

[tarabull]

There are actually 2 RSO's with the same last name listed in Dyersburg:

1) born in '58 registered on Millsford Hwy just .3 miles from Karen's car
2) born in '63 address unknown status listed as: Absconder - Attempted Rape

 

[tarabull]

This story is from back on November 3rd:

http://www.wtvm.com/story/15954558/...issing-dyer-county-woman?clienttype=printable

According to court documents Swift filed for divorce on October 10, 2011 due to irreconcilable differences.

"I think she's kept it pretty private and quiet out of respect for family, kids, and husband," Engelhardt said.

Friends said this is the second divorce for the couple, who still lives together. David Swift has until November 10 to respond to the petition for divorce.

Wonder what happened when the 10th rolled around...

 

[otto]

No offense to anyone but these theories are a little bit of a stretch since most of it is based on pure speculation and the assumption that the husband is the one responsible. He has not been named a suspect nor a POI, so I think we should be a little more careful about pointing fingers until we know more details. There are not enough known facts to assume anything, other than the fact that she had filed for divorce. For all we know, he could have been okay with that.
Family from BOTH sides could be reading here, and I believe we should respect their feelings right now. I know I made a post the other day that seemed to offend a poster when my intentions were to point out that apparently no signs of foul play were found in the house or her car. I do apologize for that, and that is why I'm posting this now. This is JMO, no disrespect intended.

You make a good point. Normally I'm inclined to sit back and wait for evidence to come in - evidence that points in one direction or another. In this case, I'm having a difficult time remaining completely objective.

We have a 43 year old mother of four that went to bed with her young daughter at 1:30 or 2 AM. She is in her own home looking after a child that wanted to return home from a sleepover because she didn't feel well (could be that she wasn't comfortable staying away overnight). It's not an Elizabeth Smart situation where a child is removed from her bed at night, but a 43 year old woman that appears to have disappeared between 2 - 5 AM. There is no explanation for her leaving the home at that time, no one has come forward claiming that she was going to stay at their place. It doesn't seem to make any sense that she would have a flat tire within 2-5 minutes of home and not be at home. It doesn't make any sense that her phone is near a river, or that it is approximately 12 miles away from home.

There is no explation for:

location of the phone,
location of the car,
the victim leaving the home between 2-5 AM,
the flat tire,
the victim being unable to return home from the parked car
etc.

There is also the possibility that this murder was planned on that particular evening because one, or both, child(ren) was at a sleepover.

Stranger abduction requires that:

she left the house between 2-5 AM for a reason even though no reason is available,
had tire pressure sensors and did not deal with it,
did not drive the 1/4 mile home on a flat,
got out of her car to return home and vanished from the side of the street,
did not have her phone ready to make an emergency call, if necessary, as she jogs from the car to the house,
the random abductor took her from her car to the river, either allowing her to keep her phone or taking it from her and throwing it into the river where she may also be,
the random adductor took the time to turn the phone off before possibly throwing it into the river
etc

 

[SmoothOperator]

Otto, I must say you make excellent points that are very hard to argue against in using just common, everyday sense.. I, too like to wait and see where the evidence leads and certainly hate seeing the venom and hatred that sometimes take place against an individual(s) who have yet to be charged, much less named a suspect(I'm one of the very few that has rode the fence the entire duration in the baby Lisa case.. And talk about venom..wow)..

First of all I'd like to point out that it's very obvious to me why LE truly rarely uses the term suspect/POI in labeling someone in an abduction/murder case this totally puts the individual on the defense(as if they're not usually enough that way to begin with) and it usually completely closes down any lines of communications, no matter how small they may be.. It certainly seems to me that LE has learned it better to not go the route of publicly naming suspects/POI anymore in these type cases..

Thus we are left to look at what little evidence we have available to us.. And just have you have perfectly listed out it truly adds up much more so that this is an inside job rather than a stranger.. Of course that's in no way stating for certain, but again using common sense..

Therefor I find that the productive discussion about the husband to not be inappropriate.. I can only speak for myself here but I have in no way listed any type of inappropriate accusations or details or methods of murder.. But much different have spoken in theory and that is what we do here.. It is part of why we are here and IMO there is nothing whatsoever inappropriate in continuing to do so.. We have great mods here who do a fantastic job of carefully guiding us away from anything inappropriate or against TOS.. And while I feel that it could definitely go too far I have not seen anything at all that is against TOS.. Theorizing is a large percentage of what takes place here.. I see nothing wild and baseless theories and with no disrespect meant i wholeheartedly disagree with those who feel it necessary to tell others that what their posting is not correct, not "right", etc, etc.. We do not all have to agree about what we theorize or speculate to be in case to case.. What a boring place with not many posts at all if we all agreed about every facet of every case.. I respect EVERYONE's opinions amd views and welcome
All opinions and views as long as they fall within TOS..

 

[EgyptNug]

Looking at that aerial of their home, the path, the body of water.. I hope LE does a better job than the Orlando police did as far as looking "close to home" in the Casey Anthony case..

 

[katydid23]

I just cannot come up with any logical reason for her to leave the home before daylight by herself, without telling anyone. Nothing makes any sense. Her kids were not sick and in need of any medicine. They were safely home and tucked in their warm beds. I think that someone forced her out of that house that night. imoo

 

[LindaG]

I do not know the Swift family nor do I know anyone who has been murdered. I form my opinions based on observing people around me, and reading up on crime cases. I am not a defense attorney or a juror in this case. The 'innocent until proven guilty' guideline applies to a court of law, not to personal opinion. As a participant in a crime forum that seeks to gather clues and information, I see others discussing and sharing opinions on their findings, and I feel free to do the same. I see persons in any situation as innocent until red flags begin to appear.

In a murder investigation, the first person to be checked out is usually the spouse. Statistics show that of all women murdered in the U.S., 30% are in the process of separating or filing for divorce, and are killed by their spouse/intimate partner. The average age of women in this group is 35-49. As an investigator (sleuth), I would look for characteristics that would eliminate the spouse as a suspect, or implicate the spouse as a suspect. (One positive in favor of Mr. Swift as a suspect would be the fact that no domestic battery charges have been filed against him, to my knowledge, although Karen's friends insist their relationship was volatile). Characteristics that I think would implicate Mr. Swift have already been given.
The positives are weighed against the negatives, and if positive characteristics prevail and the negatives can be explained away, the suspect may be cleared. Once the individual is eliminated as a suspect, the investigator moves on to the next likely suspect.

Note: I never said or insinuated that Mr. Swift would harm his daughter.

Regarding which daughter was at the sleepover:
http://www.stategazette.com/story/1779590.html
"(Sheriff) Box said Swift had arrived home late Saturday evening/early Sunday morning and dropped her children off at her house on Willie Johnson Road. He stated Swift's husband said he spoke to her in the stairwell and then went to bed and that was the last time she was seen". (I don't make things up out of whole cloth. Anything I introduce is based on news reports. I read a lot of news).

One poster on this site (no names) said both girls were at the sleepover. Some of the news articles say it was the younger daughter, some say it was the older daughter, and some say it was the teenage daughter. I went with Sheriff Box's statement.

If you recall, during the Laci Peterson investigation, LE was reading forums (it may have been this one) and found a clue they were able to use to their advantage in the investigation. We are all brainstorming and gathering our ideas about what we think may have happened. Who knows, one of us may provide a clue that makes a difference.

FYI- Foul play refers to a death which occurs outside of "normal" circumstances-- that is the person didn't just have a heart attack, stroke, etc.
In most cases that means murder, or something very suspicious that led to the individual's death--(i.e. foul play)
example: "There’s nothing to indicate a struggle. No blood," says Sheriff Box. http://www.abc24.com/news/local/stor...Cw.cspx?rss=59

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[cocomod]

:goodpost: LindaG. :goodpost:

A simple thank you was not enough

 

[tarabull]

LindaG! perhaps the 'G' is for GREAT because that was an really great post!

It's interesting to consider both girls were at a sleepover ~ maybe Karen had also intended on not returning home that night to sleep.

Makes me ask myself if the contact Karen tried making with her friend by both calling and then texting "Please Call Me!" could have been because she really was concerned about going home? Maybe she was going to ask if they (all 3 of them) could go crash at the friends place instead?

 

[Here4myfriend]

This is a very tough day for me and my family. As we give thanks for all of our blessings, it is still hard not knowing where our friend is.

Thanks to everyone who continually check in and post updates to keep Karen's case very important.


Just talked to Karen's mom. She spent today with the grandkids. She and the kids need all the prayers they can get.

 

[cocomod]

Sherrif prvides an update

http://www.stategazette.com/story/1788118.html

 

[~n/t~]

Sherrif prvides an update

http://www.stategazette.com/story/1788118.html

Thanks for the link.

Interesting that her cell phone pinged at the same time her ex husband apparently saw her at the bottom of the stairs. Wasn't it 5 am?

Sheriff Box advised his department is conducting this missing-person case as a criminal investigation with foul play involved just as if they have a criminal suspect and will continue doing that unless foul play is ruled out.

The above statement confirms that they don't believe she took off, imo.