TN TN - Kathy Jones, 12, Nashville, 29 Nov 1969 #1

[December]

Now that he is retired, do you think Pat Postligione would talk to you about Kathy's case?

I don't know how to contact him, but if I could figure out how maybe he would.

when he was still a detective on the case, he talked to my cousin Linda several times.

 

[December]

https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF-8&layer=c&z=17&iwloc=A&sll=36.112014,-86.747205&cbp=13,19.4,0,0,0&cbll=36.111994,-86.747214&q=2806+Grandview+Avenue+Nashville,+TN&ei=_ihbUsKoKISH2gXe7oH4DA&ved=0CC8QxB0wAA

Here is a street view of 2806 Grandview Avenue (the empty lot).

thank you for the photo.

it is strange to me it is still empty.

interesting they keep it mowed now. i mean, who wouldn't? but, could be city rules.

 

[December]

As for the military angle, I say both active and veteran members of the military cannot be ruled out. There is a possibility that the killer may have belonged to a special forces unit in the military.

I’m keeping in mind that the Vietnam War was going on during that era as troops were being sent to the Southeast Asian region. Military troops stationed there likely encountered adult female and underage female prostitutes.

The possibility exists that someone serving in the military in that region around that era may have developed a preference for underage girls after returning home from the war.

Since the crime occurred during a national holiday weekend, if the killer was in the military, the killer likely had a pass to leave the military base around that time.

Now it doesn’t mean that the killer came from the nearest military base. The killer could have traveled from an distant out of state military base.

And it is also possible that the killer may not have ever served in the military at all when the murders took place. The possibility exists that the killer could have been in the area during a national holiday weekend to visit family or friends.

there are an insane number of veterans and possible active military visiting relatives in tennessee.

however, i thought you were talking about a certain secret program used in vietnam to terrorize the people.

the tying with the victim's own clothes is consistent with that.

there will also be something horrifying at the scene.

i have to go now, but i'll answer the other post as soonas i can.

 

[December]

I believe that Kathy was abducted and taken somewhere. I also believe that Kathy was brutally violated and murdered at another location before her body was dumped in the field behind the donut store.

I took a good look at the aerial photo of the field behind the donut store. I noticed an alley going from McClain Avenue and Thompson Lane that is between Grandview Avenue and Nolensville Pike.

If the donut store was opened 24 hours back then, there likely would have been vehicles going by or people walking thru that alley. I doubt her killer would risk being heard or seen in a field that’s so close to the donut store and alley.

The field that Kathy was found in was reported to be waist high weeds.

If she was attacked in the field behind the donut store, I believe that there would have been signs of disturbance in the grass.

Were any dirt, mud, or grass stains ever found on Kathy’s clothing or body?

I'm wondering if there anything from Kathy's belongings that were missing?

Could the killer have kept something that belonged to Kathy as a trophy?

i do not know if it was 24 hrs in 1969

so the alley is a possibility

i've never heard that she had any dirt or mud on her at all. so that's why i think not in a lot. maybe in a vehicle right beside it, but not in the lot.

will write more later...

 

[December]

Nerosleuth, I do think Bessie is right in one way... it maybe was closer than we think to the final destination. I do not know if there were any outbuildings on or near the lot (it sounds like the lot was only weeds), but that is a possibility. also, a vehicle very nearby... though it'd have to be a larger type vehicle.. those aren't too hard to come by, really. the vehicle angle may be another reason they zeroed in on adcox and the checker cab drivers. then there were two good sized wooded areas one of which had stables... i had thought a house originally, but now I'm really thinking it may have been some place colder than that.

i need to just email kk and see what they can tell me about the nashville location. maybe i will luck out and there will be some employee who has worked there more than a year. but, idk if they will know for sure about the hours. i am really thinking that did not start until later than 1969.

i do know it is possible the alley wasn't used much at night. i didn't even realize it was there and i have been there. i think there used to be a hot dog stand up the road (toward the mall), so that means maybe some teens hanging out between those two places.

i know what you mean about maybe special forces... the special way of tying, the torture with a knife... i would not be too surprised if her neck was broken when she was 'choked'. and there are just a lot of military connections... too many to mention...

i do feel however, that we (as in the public) have been misinformed about murderers... i think they can scale back sometimes. so the person may have continued to do crimes, just not this severe (usually).

i never got the impression she had any dirt or mud or grass stains on her or her clothes. i don't mean altogether zero (but that is possible)... but not enough to think she had been attack in such conditions. and i think we would've heard that. my friend was attacked where she was found and i heard about the condition this left her in... the police didn't know she was a blonde at first, for example. whereas Kathy's hair (which was a darker shade of blonde) still looked blonde. it is weird that they both have blonde hair and blue eyes... (my friend's killer was an infant when Kathy was killed, this is why i know it's two different murderers).

 

[December]

as far as a trophy goes, i have to ask the police. even if all of kathy's clothing was there, she may have something missing from her purse. or maybe she had a necklace or a bracelet that came up missing. also, there are her playing cards... he could easily have kept one of those. who would even know? the police can't know if the killer took it or if the wind took it... for example (the whole deck might be there).

the playing cards sounds a little like a calling card of someone to me. i know that sounds a little like batman, but the military does this.

then there is the fact that she ought to have gotten her school photos back by that time of the year. did she have one of those in her purse? a lot of girls kept their own photos in their purses to trade them with their little friends. or every girl i ever knew did. this would be an easy thing to keep.

so, in a way, it might be impossible to know if he kept a trophy. maybe he cut a lock of her hair or took the other half of her little sock.. or anything. but, i am conflicted on this subject. murderers like trophies. but trained killers do not take them. so, i guess it depends on which kind of person ultimately killed her.

sometimes i read of these horrific crimes to young children or even adults.. just law abiding good people who never caused any harm... and i wonder if they were done to scare us. maybe the murderers were so ott vile in some cases to keep rekilling the victim...

reading about kathy's murder upsets anyone with a heart and empathy... and the murderer would get off on that. maybe that is why people in my family said it was dangerous to talk about it too much. maybe they didn't mean what i always thought...

eta
some people in my extended family said this. no one in my immediate family ever said it was dangerous, but we had a little distance so maybe that is the difference

 

[December]

since it was winter, i wonder how well the weeds even concealed her... how dense they were...

i also wonder if people ever cut through this lot or did the guy that found her specifically check the lot.

it seems with a missing girl, they'd check the lot. i mean, why not? it would be one of the easier places to check.

 

[December]

i just realized... once i heard a vietnam vet talk about a sex act some prostitutes would do that included bindings. the girls were not hurt. but, they (or someone working with them) set up the bindings to be sure these things didn't hurt them. this was in the kind of retail establishment one might guess.

i wonder... did someone try to reenact such a thing? only violent.

eta

I don't really know much more than that about it though

 

[December]

http://www.psywarrior.com/DeathCardsAce.html

WARNING! the above link has some photos of dead bodies.

This link discusses use of playing cards, mostly the ace of spades in Vietnam. Not every unit used it by any means, but a few did. Very detailed.

 

[December]

http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkiller_news/G/GALAN_alfredo.php

serial killer in Spain leaves a playing card with his victims. this is from around 2004, but I'm just including it since it is a real case.

 

[December]

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...1FPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=PSQEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4627,5631238

an article written 12/3/1969...

talks about a day and a half captivity as well as other details

 

[December]

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...HkcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fFEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6723,2584619

very similar article from a different newspaper

 

[December]

http://www.wilsonpost.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3310&Itemid=2

the above link is about a guy killed in 1969 who was exhumed and autopsied in 2012. so, I guess it is possible...

 

[December]

Metro Police returned my call! I sent him our link. He says Kathy has two six inch binders full of info, so he has to study it.

 

[TrixieBel]

Metro Police returned my call! I sent him our link. He says Kathy has two six inch binders full of info, so he has to study it.

That is great to hear!:cheers:

 

[December]

That is great to hear!:cheers:

I know! He's going to call back after he has read the binders (this will take a few days).

 

[bessie]

That's excellent news, December.

Regarding "the lot", have you come across photos of the original KK building at that location. It seems like I saw one awhile back.

ETA: I can't put my hands on the older photo, but the building was closer to the street than the present one. I think the original building and parking lot were smaller than they are today, as well. December also mentioned in an early post that Thompson St was widened in recent years. Therefore, the undeveloped portion of the property behind KK was probably larger than we see today.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Metro Police returned my call! I sent him our link. He says Kathy has two six inch binders full of info, so he has to study it.

I keep asking about the shoes, because if they were found with her it could indicate she was killed around there before making it to the ring since no one seen her inside. If they were not found with her, could indicate she was taking someplace else and the shoes were left behind. But neither would indicate for sure she was killed there or not taking someplace else.

The condition of the body as describe in the scene, makes me wonder if the rapes occurred after death or if death occurred during the rapes.

He had her one leg up over his shoulder, the back of her knee part on his shoulder bent all the way back towards her head. The other leg he had laying straight underneath him to pin her down, with the other leg over his shoulder and bent far back he was able to penetrate both openings by pushing forward with his body weight to raise her buttocks off the ground.

For right now, though from what I read would dispute this, I would guess and its only a guess from what i have been reading, is that she came upon someone as she was heading towards the ring. Someone walking that came upon her, and not from a vehicle. I suspected not certain the crime was committed that same night in that area coming from home, in a vacant building or perhaps even where she was found.

I know we are told she left home to go staking, but somewhere in the back of my mind is bugging me, and has me wondering if perhaps she was actually going to go meet someone around the skating ring, and used the excuse she was going skating as a reason to be going out at that time.
Though just speculating and guessing on everything.

I still believe for now, she was killed in that area the same night, she was found not far from home, in an area close to nearby the route she would have taken to the ring. If she was taking someplace else, I don't see why they would bring her back to the same area she was reported as being seen at, or the general area of where she was that night.

Godnight

 

[nerosleuth]

There are an insane number of veterans and possible active military visiting relatives in Tennessee.

However, I thought you were talking about a certain secret program used in Vietnam to terrorize the people.

The tying with the victim's own clothes is consistent with that.

There will also be something horrifying at the scene.

I know what you mean about maybe special forces... the special way of tying, the torture with a knife... I would not be too surprised if her neck was broken when she was 'choked'. and there are just a lot of military connections... too many to mention...

The playing cards sounds a little like a calling card of someone to me. I know that sounds a little like batman, but the military does this.

You pointed out something I hadn’t thought of. The killer could have been involved in military intelligence.

Those serving in military intelligence would have the same training as those in the special forces would.

It looks like the military angle is a good possibility if her killer turns out to be a trained killer.

 

[nerosleuth]

Since it was winter, I wonder how well the weeds even concealed her... how dense they were...

I also wonder if people ever cut through this lot or did the guy that found her specifically check the lot.

It seems with a missing girl, they'd check the lot. I mean, why not? It would be one of the easier places to check.

It is my understanding from reading half of the Nashville Retrospect article that the man who found Kathy’s body in the weeds was a member of a local civil defense unit that was involved with a search party searching for Kathy.