TN TN - Kathy Jones, 12, Nashville, 29 Nov 1969 #1

[December]

I just used "insulation" as a possible "foreign particles" source going on things I have read in other cases, I think -- I had forgotten about the insulation business at the Rollerdrome building... <gulp> Probably not, but it is kind of weird, huh?

Maybe she could have been grabbed as she arrived at the Rollerdrome -- just outside or in a hallway, etc.? One thing I've thought -- the noise of a roller skating rink would be a good "cover" for any protest Kathy might have been able to make initially.

I felt like you were just naming possibilities of things that could get on a coat. But, that made me think of the insulation business that Bessie found out about.

I do not know whether the police found her shoes or not. They did look for them.

But, if the murderer saw the police continue to look after they found her body it would not take a genius to discern they might be looking for her shoes. If he had access to stuff at the Rollerdrome (and there is a strong suspect who worked for the RD), all he'd have to do is get her shoes and leave them for the police to find somewhere around the lot. It was winter, so it'd be easy enough to slip her little shoes into a coat pocket. (SPECULATION)

ETA
Isn't the area where you changed into your skates usually a little apart from everything else? If she sat down to change from her shoes to skates in such a place.. a little apart from all of the people skating, maybe even near a door or something, then it might be easy to nab her. The noise would cover her initial protest and it would go very fast. He could literally pick her up and carry her off in a few seconds. Maybe he could quickly get her into another part of the building and no one would hear for all the racket from the rink.

SPECULATION

 

[December]

Just catching up with the posts from this weekend --

Great info MrsT!
Interesting that December was able to confirm that the lot was searched prior to Tuesday -wonder what day? -- def a smaller window for the perp to place Kathy in this location.

The neighbor (burning trash 15 feet away) was so close to Kathy and didn't see her -- those weeds had to have been tall and thick. As a child we had a similar lot across the street; we could build 'forts' within those weeds and NO ONE ever knew we were there. We had to really stomp repeatedly to get our weeds to stay down.

The burning trash next door would have covered any smells of decomposition if had been there more than a day.
And now I'm wonder if these 'particles' could have actually have been debris floating in the air and landing on Kathy's body from the fire 15 feet away...?

When Bessie posted the crime scene photos, I was kind of shocked by how thick the weeds were. I had not imagined them to be like that.

However, it does seem as if people felt free to go into the lot for whatever reason despite it being partly fenced. Since it was winter and a holiday weekend (and a holiday that some people might go visit out of town), maybe during the pertinent time period the lot saw less activity than normal..

I am trying to think if the doughnuts could be smelled outside the KK. If they could, then out of the back door (closer to lot) it would be stronger as the place where they made them was toward the back of the store.

It kind of seems like you could smell the doughnuts close to the store.

 

[December]

Why do police believe Kathy was "held hostage in a vacant building" before she was killed, vs. the murder's home, car, etc.? In all of the information that we have read, what would make them come to the conclusion she was held in a "vacant building"? Of course we can all speculate but I wondered if they have evidence of this and have just not released it.

"One man questioned was arrested Tuesday on charges of contributing to the delinquency of a minor." Does that charge have anything to do with Kathy? The man was questioned about Kathy's murder and then arrested for contributing to the del. of a minor. Three paragraphs above that says 3 persons were questioned but all were released. (Kingsport Times). From previous posts we know that 3 men were "suspects", were questioned, released, and cleared. So.......who is the guy that was questioned and then charged for contributing? And did it have anything to do with Kathy?

Is there a reason that we keep using the initials of J.R.J. instead of using his name? Someone posted his criminal record. I have a list of different addresses that he has lived at and phone numbers. Is it okay to post this? I also have his wife's name.

December, or anyone else, do you know what Kathy's fathers name was? I don't see anywhere that has listed it.

Did Kathy have any sort of problems with her eyes? Please don't take this as me being disrespectful, I just tend to pay attention to detail. In the photo of Kathy, it looks like her right eye is fully open but her left eye is halfway or almost closed. I just wondered if it was the photo or if she may have had some sort of handicap.

"Niece of Kathy Jones" commented that Kathy was buried in Springhill Cemetery. "December", you said she was buried in Westlawn Cemetery. The niece of Kathy also says that her brother, Kelly, is buried beside her. I cannot find an obit for Kathy, Kelly or Nora. I know it's expensive to place obit ads. Could they not have been placed because of the family's financial situation? I've checked the cemetery website for each of the above cemeteries but neither has maps of the deceased. Does anyone know if there is a family plot and at which one?

I have something else to add but I need to check on one thing first before I post.

I do not know why he said a "vacant building", but that is very interesting to me.

Now, I have to say here that I have thought about this and I wonder.. a "vacant building".. what does this mean? Would a business closed for the holiday (one where NO ONE who worked there was there the entire time) be considered "vacant"? Or does it mean a building that was not used at all?

Whatever he meant, he must have known of potential crime scenes in the area. Buildings that fit his definition of "vacant" which could also mean a new building just built, but untenanted or it could possibly mean a building that had been abandoned. Anyway, he must have known of a building in the area that fit this description. Perhaps closer than we think.

When I lived in Nashville, there was an entire row of businesses on Nolensville Road that would be very close to the lot. I do not know if they were there then, but I am saying the area looked different even 20 years ago much less 40. At the time, these buildings it would be like putting her out the back door.. very close. I don't know if the buildings were there or if any were vacant in 1969..

There was one restaurant I ate at sometimes that was there and it looked pretty old. It was an Italian restaurant. I am wracking my brains for the name, but the name I keep coming up with (which is Italian) is not the right place. It was a smallish family place, but very good food. I even recommended it to an Italian guy looking for a restaurant! So, I cannot believe I can't come up with the name. (The restaurant isn't connected to the murder, I just want the name to help reconstruct in my mind what was there during the time period I am thinking of and then maybe I can put together how long those places were there.) O.k., sorry to digress!

The "contributing to the delinquency of a minor guy" ... the minor isn't Kathy. She had already died by that point. They mean someone still alive.

I mean, it's Adcox. No telling what he was doing. But, he was a known child predator. This is known to Metro Police to this day.

SPECULATION: when I hear that, a lot times I wonder if the person was giving the kid alcohol.. I just think that because 1. it's illegal to give to a kid 2. it might encourage the kid to do something the kid should not (I don't mean a sexual thing, but a thing like skipping school or something) 3. it serves the predator's purpose of hazing the kid's mind (if it continues) allowing the predator to make his move on the poor kid 4. if the police find out the predator might not even get in that much trouble depending on the age of the kid, if things haven't gone too far, etc. (meaning time in jail vs. going away to prison for quite some time) 5. the alcohol can be hidden in a drink so the kid has no idea he/she has even drank any alcohol... if the predator picks a drink the kid hasn't tasted before he can pass off the taste of the alcohol as being just how the drink is.

I don't know Kathy's father's name. But, her first name is Nora (her mother's name). Well, Kelly's first name is William. So, maybe the father's name was William?

I got the cemeteries confused. I made a big post on this (after you posted). Anyway, Spring Hill is correct. Kathy has a headstone. She is in a grave not above ground (they have both types of burial there).

Kathy did not have any kind of handicap. I know this for sure.

As for her eyes.. I do not know of any problem. It is possible she wore glasses, but I never heard about it. However, maybe I wouldn't hear about that?

I think she maybe had heavy eyelids. There are a few people in my family who do and being caught with eyes looking half open is pretty common. It is possible her one eyelid was heavier than the other. So, it would show up in a photo. But, it wouldn't really affect her vision or anything like that.

I have seen quite a few photos of that era where kids are posed in that way. I do not really like it because it doesn't show their faces very well (JMO). I didn't know it was sometimes done for kids with glasses.

The only thing I can think of that maybe would be wrong with her is her vision was not as good as 20/20. And maybe not detected yet for glasses? So, something like 20/30 or 20/40. I don't KNOW this. But, I know eye tests did happen in schools. So, even if her mom didn't realize, it would be detected. However, if she had just developed the problem and it wasn't too bad then it is possible she was just living with it. Which would mean that she would be a little more vulnerable because, if that was the case, she might not see some things as quickly as another person. (this paragraph is mostly speculation.)

More speculation.. what if she wore glasses and got posed by the photographer and then took off her glasses? If she had heavy eyelids and wore glasses (which I never heard she did, but possibly she did and no one ever mentioned it) then I think maybe that accounts for the photo?

 

[December]

bbm:

(1) I don't recall the "vacant building" report (not doubting you, it just hasn't stuck in my mind), but my guess would be it was JUST a guess OR maybe they found a vacant building that had something in it that suggested it MIGHT have been so used...?

(2) I think I know the answer to the question of the identity of the delinquency-of-a-minor guy but I am not absolutely certain, so will let someone who is answer rather than risk causing confusion.

(3) I, too, have wondered about Kathy's father's name and haven't been able to locate it.

(4) Also noticed that Kathy's left eye appears a bit odd in the one photo we have -- and I remember that, in many school photos of that time, persons wearing glasses often were posed at that side-view angle (to lessen glare from the glasses, I guess), so wondering if a photographer might do the same thing if someone had a lazy eye, droopy eyelid, etc. Also meaning absolutely no disrespect to Kathy -- she appears to have been a very pretty girl, from the one photo we have.

(5) I think that, in 1969, most papers would still have been running at least a basic-details free obituary, so for Kathy, at least, I don't understand why there wouldn't be one. Maybe one appeared in a paper/in papers that don't show up online, though -- though maybe you have also searched otherwise. There is a link to Kathy's gravesite on FindAGrave earlier in the thread -- did you see that?

Oh, I just answered a few of these! O.k.

Vacant building.. I am thinking maybe he knew of a place. I wonder if they found evidence that looked like the came from such a place? IDK, it seems specific... but I don't know of where he speaks.

Guy arrested is Adcox.

I don't know his name either. But, I am wondering if it is William because that is Kelly's first name. So, if Kathy's first name was Nora..

I think it is possible she had heavy eyelids. Not any kind of a disability.. just as some people do. Some people in my family do.

I didn't know about the glasses pose. I do not know if Kathy wore glasses. It is possible she did and I just have never heard about it. IF she did, maybe they posed her for glasses photo and then she took her glasses off. But, they just took the photo anyway.

Kathy had an obituary. I have seen it. I don't know why people can't find it. But, she definitely had one.

I have noticed some of the things online about my family are WRONG. Not everything, but some very major things like people being the wrong ages or born the wrong time or dying decades earlier than they did. So, sometimes I think things just get entered (ETA didn't finish this sentence! Sorry.. should say "I think sometimes things just get entered incorrectly for whatever reason").

Maybe whatever newspaper ran the obituary is not making their stuff available? I have searched really hard for it online. Some things got taken from the house so IDK if I still can get to the hardcopy. But, it is clipped out for a keepsake, not for evidence. So, I don't know if the newspaper info is on it. I just remember Kathy's obit being the whole thing. So, would it count if I found it?

 

[margarita25]

Here is Kathy's photo. she is at Westlawn Cemetery.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=44648170

I had some other links, but I got logged out. If you google Kathy Jones Nashville, you will find out some more information.

From the above link:

 

[margarita25]

Hi everyone.

I am Kathy Jones's cousin. I am NOT the cousin that commented on one of the linked articles, just to be clear about that.

I know it looks like no one cares about Kathy, but we love her. However, many people in my family have died. Everyone I can think of that really knew anything about this case has died.

Some of the information I have conflicts with some comments by other family members. I am not sure which one of us is right because there is no one left to ask who would know for certain. For example, the man they discuss.. I have a different last name for him. I don't know if there are two Darryls or what the deal is with that. Some people feel he is not the one, but I don't know why the conflict of opinions (these would be people who actually knew him to some degree). Other people believe absolutely he is. I really do not know what to think.

I know the police arrested one of the suspects for some more minor charge (not related to Kathy) and had an informer in the holding cell with him to see if he said anything. Apparently, they didn't find out anything because they weren't able to arrest him for Kathy.

Kathy's mother Nora died quite a few years ago. Her father also died. Her grandmother and all of her aunts and uncles have died. Her younger brother died. Her great aunts and uncles have died. Some of her cousins have died.

Kathy's mother Nora had two sisters Linda and Faye. They were all very close. They were sweet and kind people, but tended to get stressed. Being questioned through the years to go over the same details of the case was very hard on them because they did not really understand the police were hoping to find a new detail. Unfortunately, none of them really knew anything more than they had said (as far as I know, but I will say they were not the types of conceal information... so, I feel certain they said everything they knew). All three of these women experienced ill health and died before their time. I would not be surprised if the heartbreak over Kathy had something to do with it.

So, then the police began to question Kathy's younger brother Kelly. Now, he was very young when Kathy died. But, I guess he was the only person they had. However, this was very difficult on Kelly because he had a young daughter about Kathy's age by then. I do not know if he remembered anything about Kathy's murder because he was only a baby. I think they were hoping someone had told him something and if he could remember that person then maybe they'd have a new source of information.

So, the police worked the case. But, the people they had to question honestly had very little information. Kathy left one day and did not come home. Nora called the police to report Kathy missing when Kathy didn't come home on time. The police thought at first she was with "a little boyfriend". But, she was really too young for that. And she was a good girl who would not have worried her mother so much with her mother at home with a baby. So, there was a delay getting started on her case. I don't know how long of a delay. I am sure for Nora it seemed like an extremely long time because her daughter was missing.

The person who had Kathy kept her for a while. My father was told by a "nurse" (I do not know who this person was, but she examined Kathy's body) that Kathy had been "beaten by someone with big fists". My father was really bothered by this, obviously, because who could beat up a little girl? Even worse, they had to break Kathy's legs to put her in the coffin. I hope that is not too horrible to mention. But, I grew up knowing that.

A man claimed he'd killed Kathy when he threatened a little boy. I do not know the man's name or the boy's name. I do know the boy got away from the man and went and told his parents. His parents called the police and the man was investigated. The man had some connection to the skating rink, but I do not know what.

Anyway, I know I am hardly a fount of information. But, I wanted to join so people would know why the information on Kathy is so skimpy. I will try to find out more.

This is an extremely painful subject in my family. People are honestly heartbroken to this day about our Kathy.

I'm reading this thread from the beginning, currently on page 1.

I wonder who this man is. So he confessed? Waiting to see if there is further mention about this man / incident in the pages to come.

 

[December]

Too many nagging questions ....

~If Kathy was not assaulted in the empty lot then of course it happened elsewhere
~That means she would have been held captive and restrained somehow
~The strips of her clothing would seem insufficient to restrain her for several days
~Especially since her feet were not bound as far as we know
~So was she locked in a house or a building ?
~I doubt she was carried around alive in a car for several days
~And if she was , why drop her off in such a public place
~Was she restrained by some other means , then bound and gagged with her own clothing just before death ?
~Why drop her off so close to the Rollerdrome and KK ... there were much safer and remote areas just a block or two away (large fields)

~All these issues would be eliminated if everything happened right there in the lot the same night she went missing

~That would mean cold temperatures had preserved the body and investigators simply made a mistake about time of death

~But then again ... if it was a spontaneous assault and rape right there in the lot ... it does not make sense to take the time to cut strips of fabric from her clothing to tie her up .... it would take two hands to do that .... how was she restrained while that was being done .... and what would stop her from screaming out while that was happening .

~somebody else here keeps asking about her shoes .... good question ... if her shoes were not there it could mean she was wearing her skates which makes it look as though she was grabbed in the Roller Rink

~Maybe she was held there for those days and then put in the empty lot afterwards ... but that would require a well hidden soundproof room which seems unlikely at the rink or even unlikely at a nearby home for that matter

Sorry for the ramble folks but a kidnapping and then death a few days later would require a whole bunch of things to make it work .... whereas if it all happened that one night in the lot would seem to make more sense.

I keep thinking the cool evening temperatures preserved the body and the tall weeds blocked the out the daytime sun and maybe that made the investigators get the time of death wrong.

I do not think it is as complicated to kidnap, hold, and place a person (alive and then deceased) as everyone is thinking. Kathy was only a little girl. So, she could be carried much easier than an adult (alive or not).

But, it happens in quite a few crimes. Look at the Black Dahlia.. she was left out in plain sight and posed no less! And in L.A.! Kathy, meanwhile, was left in a heavily weeded lot and she wasn't posed, she was just thrown there and her stuff was thrown down as well.

I am just saying.. if someone was good at watching when people were distracted (as many criminals are), then this could be done a lot easier than people are thinking.

She was left in the neighborhood because the murderer wanted her to be found. I mean, if the criminal didn't want her discovered and it all happened in the lot (and this was a detailed crime), then he could have scratched out a shallow grave and buried her in the very lot. If people didn't notice all of the other stuff, they probably wouldn't notice digging especially if it was the middle of the night.

So, either way you look at it.. done there or held captive and left there.. I think it is pretty obvious the murderer did want her to be found. Why? I do not know. Maybe to scare the neighborhood? Maybe he'd killed someone else the the police never found that person so he left Kathy to be found (speculation)? Maybe he was proud of his actions? It's really hard to say. But, if he had a car, then he could have taken her somewhere and buried her if he didn't want her to be found. Which, there is no guarantee there, but still.

Or, maybe he had some kind of personal reason he wanted her to be found and found after not too long? (IDK?)

Whatever else, I am grateful he left her where we could get her and take care her as much as we could. So, we could at least bury her. It is horrible to think of not having her back! And I never, ever thought I would have to say I am grateful to the murderer! But, he could have hidden her many ways. I think different murderers do different things with their murdered victims for various reasons that are and aren't logical.

~Maybe she was held there for those days and then put in the empty lot afterwards ... but that would require a well hidden soundproof room which seems unlikely at the rink or even unlikely at a nearby home for that matter

bbm...
why soundproof? If it happened in the lot and no one heard... then a house or building seems like it would offer much better soundproofing than a lot?

I just brought this part out of the post because it is a little confusing to me. Anything except an apartment or motel would offer better soundproofing than a lot that just had some weeds. Depending on the apartment or motel, those might offer good enough soundproofing...

Am i misunderstanding you?

And well hidden... it seems like almost anything would be better hidden than the lot that was right there in the open with only weeds and a few trees to conceal the very involved rape and murder.

the moon was much brighter the night Kathy disappeared than it was the night before she as found. so, if someone happened to look outside there was a better chance that they would see something (whatever was outside to be seen) on 11/29.

There was construction going on in the area still due to the mall. And there may have been buildings that were vacant, for all I know. I think there must have been based on Mills's statement.

There are some houses that are close together which makes them seem unlikely. But, if she is gagged the entire time, that would cut down on noise as long as the murderer was fairly quiet. Then, if the murderer chose a room that did not really have any (or at least few) windows that would conceal things from prying eyes outside.

I guess I just don't find it too difficult to imagine that such a place would exist in that area?

I never really thought of how difficult it would be to cut her coat up. this is why I think a vehicle was involved for part of it at least. it'd be a lot easier to restrain her (or much more difficult for anyone to hear her) if she was in a car or van or whatever else. then the murderer could cut strips from her coat or whatever else he chose to do much easier than if he was trying to do all of this in the lot. jmo/moo/speculation

It is hard to say if the things from her clothing could have held her or not because we really don't know how big these strips were. Maybe he ripped the whole lining out? IDK.

Also, we don't know anything about her coat.. what if it was one of those reversible coats or something like that? IDK. I think it is more likely he added to those restraints, but just now thinking about it.. I realized I know nothing about her coat except the Banner called it a jacket. However, they were getting that from a source who only saw it wadded up on the ground. So.. I just don't know what it looked like or what the lining was like. (Well, it is possible they were getting it from her description from the search.. I just thought about that.. so. IDK.)

I have a feeling (this is just a feeling I have based on nothing but emotion and me thinking of how a person might be restrained) that there were different restraints used during part of the assault. these were added to the restraints made from her clothing and taken away before she was taken to the lot. I have a feeling this is because the murderer wanted to keep those useful items for himself.

 

[December]

Aww... don't feel bad, December. I almost missed that part, myself

:hug:

 

[December]

I'm reading this thread from the beginning, currently on page 1.

I wonder who this man is. So he confessed? Waiting to see if there is further mention about this man / incident in the pages to come.

There are many mentions of this man.

He did not confess to the police in a formal (usable) manner. He talked about it in jail.

I know people will say that wouldn't happen because child molesters/murderers are hated in prison. But, in this case, it absolutely did happen. It is documented all over the place that it did.

The man is Edward Warner Adcox, a known child predator. He was almost prosecuted for the murder. But, the DA wouldn't take the case due to a problem with witnesses.

EWA was reported in the Scene in 1998 not to be a suspect. However, in another article in 2009, he was reported to still be a suspect.

He is a suspect.

ETA
He is now dead, btw.

 

[December]

bbm: If the coat lining was thin and/or worn, it might have torn (or cut) pretty easily but, I agree, it would be at least a bit hard for one person to restrain her while ripping/tearing the pieces and then tying her -- surely not impossible, but it would have been a risk of her screaming or making some kind of escape (and oh, I wish she could have made an escape!!!)

Maybe this is one reason the one policeman made the non-official statement that it took at least three people to do this...?

I have wondered, too, if Kathy might have been struck and knocked out early on in the attack, with the bindings and the tying of her blouse around her mouth and neck accomplished while she was unconscious. But then, when she started to rouse, maybe the blouse-gag was not enough to silence her and the perp(s) at that time made use of the portion of her sock? Just a theory.

Or maybe the razor-sharp instrument was being brandished (and used for cutting the lining) and to threaten/torture Kathy as well during the early stage, and she was too terrified to resist much.

It is possible it was a handmedown coat. I do not know this. I am just saying I think it is possible. It is also possible it was brand new. I just do not know much about the coat.. I wish I did.

However, I wonder if he just tore out the whole lining and then cut it from there. That would be faster, maybe. IDK. I usually do not cut the linings out of my coats! But, I do have a very nice coat that was expensive when I bought it. the lining, at some point, became its own thing and I think if I took a knife to it I could remove the whole thing as easily as cut pieces of it out. the lining is of good quality material and it is thicker than a lot of linings I have seen. However, I bought this coat many years after Kathy died even though it is a traditional looking wool coat.

I have wondered if she was knocked out in some manner.

I do not think she was hit on the head as that has not been mentioned. But, she may have been knocked out some other way. And maybe there is a way to be hit on the head and knock her out briefly that would just seem like part of the beating in the autopsy or the police just have never mentioned it IDK.

I have also wondered (this is all my idea, I have never read it or been told it by anyone) if she was given something that would render her unconscious. Chloroform or who knows what?

 

[nola]

It is possible it was a handmedown coat. I do not know this. I am just saying I think it is possible. It is also possible it was brand new. I just do not know much about the coat.. I wish I did.

However, I wonder if he just tore out the whole lining and then cut it from there. That would be faster, maybe. IDK. I usually do not cut the linings out of my coats! But, I do have a very nice coat that was expensive when I bought it. the lining, at some point, became its own thing and I think if I took a knife to it I could remove the whole thing as easily as cut pieces of it out. the lining is of good quality material and it is thicker than a lot of linings I have seen. However, I bought this coat many years after Kathy died even though it is a traditional looking wool coat.

I have wondered if she was knocked out in some manner.

I do not think she was hit on the head as that has not been mentioned. But, she may have been knocked out some other way. And maybe there is a way to be hit on the head and knock her out briefly that would just seem like part of the beating in the autopsy or the police just have never mentioned it IDK.

I have also wondered (this is all my idea, I have never read it or been told it by anyone) if she was given something that would render her unconscious. Chloroform or who knows what?

On the topic of Kathy possibly being knocked unconscious...I remember December that you shared that your dad spoke about a nurse (or someone) telling him that poor Kathy had been hit by someone with big fists. One blow to the face/jaw/nose would knock most 12 year olds out cold, especially if that someone was an adult with large hands.

 

[December]

From the above link:

she is at Spring Hill not Westlawn. I made a mistake on account of us having lots at Westlawn and calling and talking to my cousin Donna and then we were talking about Kathy and some others. So, I thought they were buried the same place we have lots, but they are not. They are at Spring Hill. Those two places are affiliated these days (for some years, but IDK about back in the day).

ETA
That photo of Kathy ran in The Tennessean. But, it is only a cropped version of what was probably her school photo. The full photo ran in the Banner and was picked up by Retrospect. it is in this thread. as are those articles. just to source the photo.

 

[December]

On the topic of Kathy possibly being knocked unconscious...I remember December that you shared that your dad spoke about a nurse (or someone) telling him that poor Kathy had been hit by someone with big fists. Once blow to the face/jaw/nose would knock most 12 year olds out cold, especially if that someone was an adult with large hands.

that is a good point. i could see that happening more than her being hit over the head.

 

[December]

I, too was searching for Kathy's grave...and finally found her (Nora Kathleen "Kathy" Jones) listed as in Spring Hill Cemetery. No details, but for those of us who may find ourselves in Nashville, it's good to know where to pay our respects.http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=119435994

this is new.

there was a different findagrave up for her that was much more vague. so someone made a nicer one.

i haven't joined over there. i have so many deceased relatives i have considered joining and then i get horribly depressed... because i'd make like 100 pages...

 

[December]

Just jumping off this for a few thoughts...totally my opinion and the idea actually just came to me. On your first point, their speculation that she was held in an abandoned building...what if they were pretty sure of their suspects, and this article was written during initial investigations. Possibly, they checked out their homes and families and speculated that since it was improbable the assaults happened there, and improbable that it all could have taken place in the lot, that a vacant building was their next best guess??? Or maybe they do have key evidence they are holding back as is sometimes the case.

As for JRJ, although Bessie gave me the OK to post his info since he is an offender local to the area at the time and is currently in Jail for a somewhat similar assault, I did not put his full name just because he was not named officially in this case. I found his address on Heather place eerily near where she was found.

I did see a 'possible marriage' for him, but could not confirm since I could find no other mention of her with him... Curious what you have found... He is high on my list!

In regards to the obits, after searching the newspapers of that time, it seems mid paper, there was a list of local deaths with a bit of info about them, then a list of funeral notices. The closest paper I could find archived was from Kingsport, and they didn't even have every day, so no mention that I saw.... But maybe I need to keep going after January?? It was probably a while before they got to bring her home

Moo

you know. i do not know how long it took to bring her home. it seems it would take some time even with an old style autopsy.

i wonder if they did anything like a tox screen back then? because i wonder if the murderer gave her alcohol perhaps in a coke or something like that. back then it was pretty common for any coke not in a bottle to taste different from place to place (if someone had fountain drinks.. two places next door to one another might have cokes that both tasted different from each other.. and i mean the coke brand for this example). speculation.. although i do not think it is likely.. i just wonder if this was checked out. (i don't think it was likely for various reasons, but who can say for sure without a test? or if he did, he only did enough to get control of her. more spec)

i do wonder what locations they searched (after they found her). I would imagine they went over to the RD and looked around. but otherwise, i have no idea where they looked.

 

[Backwoods]

It is possible it was a handmedown coat. I do not know this. I am just saying I think it is possible. It is also possible it was brand new. I just do not know much about the coat.. I wish I did.

However, I wonder if he just tore out the whole lining and then cut it from there. That would be faster, maybe. IDK. I usually do not cut the linings out of my coats! But, I do have a very nice coat that was expensive when I bought it. the lining, at some point, became its own thing and I think if I took a knife to it I could remove the whole thing as easily as cut pieces of it out. the lining is of good quality material and it is thicker than a lot of linings I have seen. However, I bought this coat many years after Kathy died even though it is a traditional looking wool coat.

I have wondered if she was knocked out in some manner.

I do not think she was hit on the head as that has not been mentioned. But, she may have been knocked out some other way. And maybe there is a way to be hit on the head and knock her out briefly that would just seem like part of the beating in the autopsy or the police just have never mentioned it IDK.

I have also wondered (this is all my idea, I have never read it or been told it by anyone) if she was given something that would render her unconscious. Chloroform or who knows what?

bbm: Also, if she was cut with the blade early in the attack, I guess it is possible she may have fainted, in pain and fear, for a while.

Even something like a pocketknife or a boxcutter would probably be very intimidating to a 12-year-old girl, being brandished and then actually used on her by a grown man (one assumes). And I expect we all know, in a small way, how painful even just a small cut from something "razor sharp" can be.

However it all happened, I hate thinking of it happening to Kathy. God rest her.

 

[December]

bbm: Also, if she was cut with the blade early in the attack, I guess it is possible she may have fainted, in pain and fear, for a while.

Even something like a pocketknife or a boxcutter would probably be very intimidating to a 12-year-old girl, being brandished and then actually used on her by a grown man (one assumes). And I expect we all know, in a small way, how painful even just a small cut from something "razor sharp" can be.

However it all happened, I hate thinking of it happening to Kathy. God rest her.

She might have fainted.

I don't think it is a box cutter due to the description of the cuts. And I don't even know if people used those in 1969 since so many people carried pocket knives.

If it was a pocket knife, it was sharp.

 

[nerosleuth]

i wonder if they did anything like a tox screen back then? because i wonder if the murderer gave her alcohol perhaps in a coke or something like that.

I thought about that too. It's possible that someone could have given her some kind of a drink that was spiked with alcohol or drugs.

My thinking is that if a tox screen was done and the results were positive, the tox screen results likely wouldn't be made public. That would be an important detail that the murderer and the police would know.

Another thought to consider. She could have been approached by someone, and while that person was talking to her, she was suddenly sucker punched without warning.

 

[December]

I thought about that too. It's possible that someone could have given her some kind of a drink that was spiked with alcohol or drugs.

My thinking is that if a tox screen was done and the results were positive, the tox screen results likely wouldn't be made public. That would be an important detail that the murderer and the police would know.

Another thought to consider. She could have been approached by someone, and while that person was talking to her, she was suddenly sucker punched without warning.

yeah, idk anything about a tox screen... iI was kind of speculating.

iI think the sucker punch might be a more likely thing since we know he did hit her.

 

[December]

I just want to add something pretty for Kathy.