Found Safe TN - Mary Catherine Elizabeth Thomas, 15, Maury County, 13 March 2017 #1

[msphilosopher]

I think to be successful, Amber Alerts should be reserved for cases where the victim is at serious immediate risk of injury/death. Using Amber Alerts in relatively mundane "abductions" like family disputes or runaways lessens their significance for the real emergencies.

I have to disagree respectfully. Family abductions are not mundane. In custody disputes, the abductor is unfit to be the legal guardian. This puts the child in danger. A child under 5 is most likely to be killed by a relative than a stranger. See stats below... a little out dated from 2005 but I doubt it has drastically changed.

As for run aways, the most troubling part is that it's hard to prove that they aren't in danger. The idea may have sounded cool at the time but then realized they were lied to, manipulated, and/or sold into human trafficking or prostitution.

I think these are real emergencies and not a burden on the public.

[h=3]Stranger Danger?[/h]Of all children under age 5 murdered from 1976-2005 —
31% were killed by fathers
29% were killed by mothers
23% were killed by male acquaintances
7% were killed by other relatives
3% were killed by strangers

http://www.freerangekids.com/crime-statistics/

 

[lonetraveler]

I agree except for it being obvious that the man has groomed the girl. Anyone at any age can become obsessed with another person for whatever reason. I agree this has a huge potential for danger to either or both of them. I just don't think we have enough evidence to say he was purposely manipulating her into it. JMO.

Respectfully disagree. He is the adult and the authority figure here. There is no way in Hell he did not know that to even think about being inappropriate with this minor girl was wrong. He was suppose to be the "voice of reason" as a teacher. It is nothing new for a young teen to get a "crush" on the teacher, both males as well as females, it is the duty of the teacher to handle the situation appropriately. He chose not to do that. He decided instead, to take advantage of the situation.

 

[OtisC]

I agree except for it being obvious that the man has groomed the girl. Anyone at any age can become obsessed with another person for whatever reason. I agree this has a huge potential for danger to either or both of them. I just don't think we have enough evidence to say he was purposely manipulating her into it. JMO.

I can see your point of limiting his grooming involvement based on what I have seen from MSM.

However, after looking at their SM, it becomes more apparent that he groomed her to this point. He may or may not consider it grooming but the result is the same.

It is not unusual to have a crush on a teacher. Some do go beyond the crush to an obsession. Obviously, he became aware of her affections towards him. Even if he did not initialize her feelings for him, he had an opportunity and obligation to ensure that those feelings were not mutual. Instead, he allowed the fantasy to develop to the point that he was physically engaging with her. That is grooming.

The above is my opinion only.

 

[msphilosopher]

Respectfully disagree. He is the adult and the authority figure here. There is no way in Hell he did not know that to even think about being inappropriate with this minor girl was wrong. He was suppose to be the "voice of reason" as a teacher. It is nothing new for a young teen to get a "crush" on the teacher, both males as well as females, it is the duty of the teacher to handle the situation appropriately. He chose not to do that. He decided instead, to take advantage of the situation.

And now his life is over.

 

[mbison]

I have to disagree respectfully. Family abductions are not mundane. In custody disputes, the abductor is unfit to be the legal guardian. This puts the child in danger. A child under 5 is most likely to be killed by a relative than a stranger. See stats below... a little out dated from 2005 but I doubt it has drastically changed.

As for run aways, the most troubling part is that it's hard to prove that they aren't in danger. The idea may have sounded cool at the time but then realized they were lied to, manipulated, and/or sold into human trafficking or prostitution.

I think these are real emergencies and not a burden on the public.

Stranger Danger?

Of all children under age 5 murdered from 1976-2005 —
31% were killed by fathers
29% were killed by mothers
23% were killed by male acquaintances
7% were killed by other relatives
3% were killed by strangers

http://www.freerangekids.com/crime-statistics/

I don't think the standard for an Amber Alert should be lack of proof that the runaway is not in danger. I am not saying the incident shoudn't be investigated. I am saying an Amber Alert is supposed to meet a strict set of criteria (partly because of the cost, but mainly because of the giant spectacle it creates). Many law enforcement agencies don't apply the criteria, which is why many Amber Alerts end up involving custody disputes or runaways.

Amber Alerts were designed to target kidnappings by strangers because 75% of children kidnapped by strangers are killed in the first 3 hours. They weren't designed to employ a massive amount of human capital to chase down every misguided teen who runs off with some older loser.

 

[lonetraveler]

And now his life is over.

Yes, that's exactly why this is an extremely dangerous situation.

 

[Rachel1]

Here's my thoughts-
If they where really in love then he could've easily told her that she should stay in school and that he would pick her up on her 18th birthday and they'd be together then.
But we have no idea what the real situation is here.
Either way, he needs to turn himself in. She may be too young to realize the seriousness of this but he should be aware for sure.
I hope he decides to drop her off somewhere safe really soon.

 

[Deleted member 122964]

I am mighty suspicious of any grown man who is married and maintains so many social media accounts. Furthermore I am suspicious of any grown man whose posts look like what a young person would post. Where are his grown up posts? He seems to think he is the star of a romantic fantasy involving star crossed lovers. I wonder if anyone saw this coming.

I am frightened by what he might be willing to do to maintain the fantasy. Wow. Wow. Wow.

I hope LE is checking videos at Wal-Mart's groceries, gas stations, and camping areas. Do you remember the case where a teen girl ran away with a middle-aged man she met at a horse camp....the guy wouldn't reveal his real identity. Anyway, they spotted them on a Wal-Mart video. That helped lead LE to their direction. I wish that would happen in this case

 

[msphilosopher]

I don't think the standard for an Amber Alert should be lack of proof that the runaway is not in danger. I am not saying the incident shoudn't be investigated. I am saying an Amber Alert is supposed to meet a strict set of criteria (partly because of the cost, but mainly because of the giant spectacle it creates). Many law enforcement agencies don't apply the criteria, which is why many Amber Alerts end up involving custody disputes or runaways.

Amber Alerts were designed to target kidnappings by strangers because 75% of children kidnapped by strangers are killed in the first 3 hours. They weren't designed to employ a massive amount of human capital to chase down every misguided teen who runs off with some older loser.

BBM - I see your perspective, but how do you know LE doesn't apply the criteria? What if there aren't any stranger abductions in the area and haven't been for a long time but there's a runaway or family abduction who may be in danger? What's the harm when the benefit of AA could save a life?

Less that 1% of missing children are abducted are by strangers. So we should ignore the benefits of AA for the other 99% of adductions?

The Department of Justice reports that of the 800,000 children reported “missing” in the United States each year, 115 are the result of “stereotypical kidnapping” — a stranger snatching the child.

http://www.freerangekids.com/crime-statistics/

PS- I respect your opinion, just a healthy debate.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Tip came in that the car was seen in at the area of Brooks Road and I-55 in Memphis. That search came up empty.

It is believed that the two are in a silver Nissan Rogue with Tennessee tag 976ZPT

http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story...ted-sighting-of-teen-at-center-of-amber-alert

 

[Rachel1]

I just​ saw her Instagram and wanted to cry. This poor girl seems to have low self esteem and is crying out for attention.
As an adult, he should've known better. He should've known that she was off limits.

I would totally understand if they where only 6 years apart or something but he's old enough to be her grandfather.

When I was in school, it was rumored that a certain girl had eyes for a male teacher. It was his first year as a teacher, I guess they where like 10 years apart.
To make a long story short, they're married now. He waited until she graduated and married her. So I know these things do happen and see where the poster was going with the"in love" thing but the age difference is just too vast. He's a sick man and needs to be caught.

 

[Tragic]

I don't think the standard for an Amber Alert should be lack of proof that the runaway is not in danger. I am not saying the incident shoudn't be investigated. I am saying an Amber Alert is supposed to meet a strict set of criteria (partly because of the cost, but mainly because of the giant spectacle it creates). Many law enforcement agencies don't apply the criteria, which is why many Amber Alerts end up involving custody disputes or runaways.

Amber Alerts were designed to target kidnappings by strangers because 75% of children kidnapped by strangers are killed in the first 3 hours. They weren't designed to employ a massive amount of human capital to chase down every misguided teen who runs off with some older loser.

You could not be more wrong. This sentence follows your wikipedia estimation of 75% of children being killed in first three hours:

Amber Alerts: Amber Alerts are designed to inform the general public quickly when a child has been kidnapped and is in danger so "the public [would be] additional eyes and ears of law enforcement".

Doesn't imply the situation, the age, the race, economic class or any reason why a child should not be included in Amber Alerts, as per your poor, sad judgement of a "misguided teen who runs off with some older loser."

To have such judgement that she is a misguided teen who runs away with some loser, I must ask do you know her? Have you spoken with her to confirm she's not kidnapped? By spoken, I mean in person so you know that there's not a gun to her head forcing her answers. If so, and you haven't notified authorities.. are you okay with a fifteen year old girl being in a relationship with a fifty year old man? The only reason anyone would presume that she ran off and wasn't abducted would have to completely understand the situation that is actively going on between the two.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Cummins, who had been at Culleoka for a decade, was removed from the classroom in February after a student caught him and Thomas kissing.

Thomas, who is a freshman at Culleoka, allegedly met Cummins through the local chapter of HOSA, an international student organization that promotes career opportunities in the health care industry.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sued-teen-believed-teacher.html#ixzz4bRBZoQ5W

 

[Rachel1]

We have no way of knowing if he abducted her or if she got into the car willingly right now But either way, they must be located immediately.

 

[mbison]

BBM - I see your perspective, but how do you know LE doesn't apply the criteria? What if there aren't any stranger abductions in the area and haven't been for a long time but there's a runaway or family abduction who may be in danger? What's the harm when the benefit of AA could save a life?

Less that 1% of missing children are abducted are by strangers. So we should ignore the benefits of AA for the other 99% of adductions?

The Department of Justice reports that of the 800,000 children reported “missing” in the United States each year, 115 are the result of “stereotypical kidnapping” — a stranger snatching the child.

http://www.freerangekids.com/crime-statistics/

PS- I respect your opinion, just a healthy debate.

TBF, I don't know whether the criteria was applied in this case. I'm sure the police know more facts than I do. More generally, I am just going off what I have read. E.g., from Wikipedia:

A Scripps Howard study of the 233 AMBER Alerts issued in the United States in 2004 found that most issued alerts did not meet the Department of Justice's criteria. Fully 50% (117 alerts) were categorized by the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children as being "family abductions", very often a parent involved in a custody dispute. There were 48 alerts for children who had not been abducted at all, but were lost, ran away, involved in family misunderstandings (for example, two instances where the child was with grandparents), or as the result of hoaxes. Another 23 alerts were issued in cases where police did not know the name of the allegedly abducted child, often as the result of misunderstandings by witnesses who reported an abduction.
Seventy of the 233 AMBER Alerts issued in 2004 (30%) were actually children taken by strangers or who were unlawfully travelling with adults other than their legal guardians.


According to the 2014 Amber Alert Report, 186 Amber Alerts were issued in the US, involving 239 children. 60 (25%) were taken by strangers or people other than their legal guardians.

Some outside scholars examining the system in depth disagree with the "official" results. A research team led by criminologist Timothy Griffin reviewed hundreds of abduction cases that occurred between 2003 and 2006 and found that AMBER Alerts actually had little apparent role in the eventual return of abducted children. The AMBER Alerts tended to be "successful" in relatively mundane abductions, such as when the child was taken by a noncustodial parent or other family member. There was little evidence that AMBER Alerts routinely "saved lives", although a crucial research constraint was the impossibility of knowing with certainty what would have happened if no alert had been issued in a particular case.

 

[Gardenista]

Lots of interesting comments on the TBI FB page

https://www.facebook.com/TBInvestigation/posts/1624271830933597

 

[OtisC]

We have no way of knowing if he abducted her or if she got into the car willingly right now But either way, they must be located immediately.

I agree with your point.

However, I do want to make a clarification. The underage girl can consent to have sex with this man but it is still considered rape. In the same manner, she can get in his car willingly but his intent to take her out of state, along with the circumstance of inappropriate physical conduct by him, makes it kidnapping.

I am not disagreeing with you, I just wanted to make the additional point.

I hope you don't mind.

The above is my opinion only.

 

[Tragic]

[FONT=&quot]"There is, of course, a world of difference between a man who grooms and abuses children and one with a predilection for younger women. The law has provided a line in the sand, and that line is 16. Even so, what are we to think of these men who pursue young people so fresh out of childhood? There’s the thrill of a beautiful young body, of course, but there’s more to it than that. There’s the ego trip of being with a teenager who is so easily impressed that a car, or a flat – any signifier of independence – can seem dazzlingly mature. What I remember most about the girls I knew who dated older men was how confident they were among their friends, and how passive they were around their boyfriends."

This is a section of an article in a british newspaper, where age of consent over there is 16. The author, Fiona Sturges was 14 when one [/FONT][FONT=&quot]of my parents’ friends tried to grope her behind a door at a party. Below is another section in the article, where she addresses past men in history that had improper relationships with young girls.

"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Those were different times, we are told; to a point, it’s true. Those where the days when few were familiar with the word paedophilia, and when the repercussions on a young girl of sleeping with an older man were not much considered, because the welfare of young girls wasn’t considered at all. Those were the days when men joked about bedding teenagers and the concept of consent was rarely discussed."

Please read more here: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ge-girls-is-more-than-just-icky-a6886536.html[/FONT]

 

[mbison]

You could not be more wrong. This sentence follows your wikipedia estimation of 75% of children being killed in first three hours:

Amber Alerts: Amber Alerts are designed to inform the general public quickly when a child has been kidnapped and is in danger so "the public [would be] additional eyes and ears of law enforcement".

Doesn't imply the situation, the age, the race, economic class or any reason why a child should not be included in Amber Alerts, as per your poor, sad judgement of a "misguided teen who runs off with some older loser."

To have such judgement that she is a misguided teen who runs away with some loser, I must ask do you know her? Have you spoken with her to confirm she's not kidnapped? By spoken, I mean in person so you know that there's not a gun to her head forcing her answers. If so, and you haven't notified authorities.. are you okay with a fifteen year old girl being in a relationship with a fifty year old man? The only reason anyone would presume that she ran off and wasn't abducted would have to completely understand the situation that is actively going on between the two.

I suppose the two criteria that could be questioned here are:

1. Law enforcement must confirm that an abduction has taken place.
2. The child must be at risk of serious injury or death.

I'm not saying those don't apply here. Just seems questionable to me given what we do know.

 

[Rachel1]

I agree with your point.

However, I do want to make a clarification. The underage girl can consent to have sex with this man but it is still considered rape. In the same manner, she can get in his car willingly but his intent to take her out of state, along with the circumstance of inappropriate physical conduct by him, makes it kidnapping.

I am not disagreeing with you, I just wanted to make the additional point.

I hope you don't mind.

The above is my opinion only.

I don't mind at all!
Yes this is an extremely sticky situation. Either way anyone cuts it, he should've known better.