Found Safe TN - Mary Catherine Elizabeth Thomas, 15, Maury County, 13 March 2017 #11

[wendybtn]

This girl could be gone from this guy if she wanted. You saw them walking through Walmart together, she's not scared. She could have started screaming for help in Walmart or just run to a security guard. But she stays by his side.

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I don't know why it happens but it does happen. See Patty Hearst. Look up Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[Kapua]

I've always thought he may have several thousand more dollars. If he had enough foresight and went to the trouble to take out a loan, then I am guessing other ways of earning money (cashing out retirement, savings, selling things) occurred to him as well. Imho.


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I totally agree. I think he has at least $2000 more, but that is just my opinion, so I don't want to spread rumors or speculate on anything more than absolute fact.

Someone suggested that may have had a guitar. If it was a good quality guitar, it would be worth several hundred dollars even used. Here's a link to give you an idea:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Acoustic-Guitars.gc

We also don't know if they are still camping on the cheap or have more comfortable digs right now. That 50-year-old suburban back is going to be craving a mattress before long. I've priced cabins (usually cheaper than motels) and you can get good weekly rates if you shop around.

Top 3 possibilities in my mind are Texas, the great southwest (New Mexico/Arizona), and the California coast.

:cow:

 

[adot0902]

Would TC feel that it is "below" him to work as a farm hand or day laborer? I agree that he has to be getting money from somewhere but I just can't see him taking an odd job. I still think someone is assisting him. MOO.

Man I always get so excited but I completely forget the narcissist angle........ I think you maybe right, he probably would think he is above any job that would hire him without being "on paper"

 

[adot0902]

I've always thought he may have several thousand more dollars. If he had enough foresight and went to the trouble to take out a loan, then I am guessing other ways of earning money (cashing out retirement, savings, selling things) occurred to him as well. Imho.


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Do you think he has savings or valuables, he just filed for bankruptcy in 2012?? I'm asking not questioning you, I really don't know. I just think if you had a bankruptcy case and you and your spouse both had middle class jobs it may be hard to save anything substantial?

 

[Kapua]

I don't know why it happens but it does happen. See Patty Hearst. Look up Stockholm Syndrome.

I took the day off yesterday to have some car repairs done, and in the waiting room at the dealer, they had a TV. The Today show was on, and they were talking about Patty Hearst.

http://www.today.com/news/how-publi...rst-went-kidnapping-victim-armed-bank-t109921

There's a book called "American Heiress" about her if anyone is interested. Fascinating story. I am encouraged by the fact that Ms. Hearst is now living the life she was supposed to lead before she was kidnapped. So is Elizabeth Smart. I hope ET can be rescued soon and that her life will also normalize in time.

 

[MsPooh]

Just thinking, when my Mom left her job she cashed out her retirement. .she was separated from her Husband (not legally ) but still had to have his signature to cash it out. Is it possible that TC and JC cashed his out? Maybe he led her to believe that it was going to be their "cushion" until he found a new job...just racking my brain over here in the corner.

 

[Kapua]

Would TC feel that it is "below" him to work as a farm hand or day laborer? I agree that he has to be getting money from somewhere but I just can't see him taking an odd job. I still think someone is assisting him. MOO.

Years ago, I worked for a man in his 50s. He and his wife were both from southern CA, and when the company laid him off, they moved to Huntington Beach to be near their kids and grandkids and he became a handyman. If TC can do simple home repair, this would be a possibility for him.

 

[4SAM]

Just thinking, when my Mom left her job she cashed out her retirement. .she was separated from her Husband (not legally ) but still had to have his signature to cash it out. Is it possible that TC and JC cashed his out? Maybe he led her to believe that it was going to be their "cushion" until he found a new job...just racking my brain over here in the corner.

I did that at a job, but it took a few days and I had to pay extra to have it sent fed ex.

 

[adot0902]

Just thinking, when my Mom left her job she cashed out her retirement. .she was separated from her Husband (not legally ) but still had to have his signature to cash it out. Is it possible that TC and JC cashed his out? Maybe he led her to believe that it was going to be their "cushion" until he found a new job...just racking my brain over here in the corner.

He most likely as a Public School Employee has a 403(b)... They have loan provisions, but it's not something that is easy to "cash out of" even with spousal consent. There are a list of reasons you can cash out, such as "hardship", having separated from employment, none of those really apply to him. It's not NEARLY as easy to get at 403(b) monies as it is to get at IRA monies.

 

[Milenalee]

I have updated the Instagram metadata reports by adding a True / False flag indicating if the original caption was edited, as well as putting the times into local Central time and correcting when appropriate for Daylight Savings.

Elizabeth Thomas Instagram posts date, caption edited flag, and caption text
https://pastebin.com/sBfFfDfX

Tad Cummins Instagram posts date, caption edited flag, and caption text
https://pastebin.com/sBfFfDfX

Also I created a 2nd version of the reports to note which users 'liked' the posts as of March 19th, 2017 when I downloaded the metadata.

Elizabeth Thomas Instagram posts liked by
https://pastebin.com/DfA8tHLR

Tad Cummins Instagram posts liked by
https://pastebin.com/sBfFfDfX

Please let me know if you have any questions, or if you see this as a violation of rules here.

Thanks for this. It's interesting. Apart from the post about gluten free pancake mix, it doesn't seem like he was writing to Elizabeth in particular until February 22 this year. But the kiss was earlier. But from February 22nd on its intense. Could guess he managed to get more physical with her and was now "in love." Barf! I haven't checked her side yet.


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[JerseyGirl]

Thanks for this. It's interesting. Apart from the post about gluten free pancake mix, it doesn't seem like he was writing to Elizabeth in particular until February 22 this year. But the kiss was earlier. But from February 22nd on its intense. Could guess he managed to get more physical with her and was now "in love." Barf! I haven't checked her side yet.


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The kiss was on January 23rd.
He was suspended without pay on February 6. It seems like within 2 weeks from that date, they were contacting each other and proclaiming love via Instagram. (where after February 22nd it became heated).

I was thinking perhaps we should put the two Instagram lists together to see their pattern to each other.

 

[bamaguy1983]

99% (not a real statistic) of us here acknowledge that ET is indeed a victim, whether she went happily skipping away with him or not. There will always be one or two who either play devil's advocate, troll, or sincerely believe she isn't a victim.

Can't we just scroll and roll instead of getting all aggravated and having to explain how she is a victim for the umpteenth time?

My main problem with it (other than it being offensive) is ET's family reads this forum. To read that members here think she is a willing accomplice on a joy ride more than likely hurts to the core. On that note, I notice Sis hasn't posted in a day or two.

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[BlkMtnGirl]

I mean, there are landmarks and historic sites across the nation. There is no use speculating based on those previous spots that they are seeing landmarks. Specifically, there is no theme from a moderately famous river, to the site of a terrorist attack, to a national park?

Even if they are going to see National land marks and historic places, those around the places we know they have been offer no insight into what they could/would want to see next.

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Now I'm going to laugh out loud. "Scroll and roll" is toooo haarrddd! We've gotten so frustrated here about this case that we can't even put out theories without being called out (even when I specifically said I had no information about the national park in question, my own opinion, just a thought, etc.) They could be anywhere, for sure, and we just don't know anything at this point. (I'm leaning toward them doubling back to TN myself.) I have to very respectfully disagree that there is "no use speculating based on those previous spots." I am not asking for LE to camp out in front of national parks or anything. I'm just trying to think outside the box a little and get into EC's mindset. I'm not saying he planned anything out just to show her the sights, but I think HE would think he is furthering her educational goals if they can see some educational places along the way. Oh, and I think if one has hardly been outside the state of TN, the Tennessee River at its widest point would be of interest.

 

[Milenalee]

The kiss was on January 23rd.
He was suspended without pay on February 6. It seems like within 2 weeks from that date, they were contacting each other and proclaiming love via Instagram. (where after February 22nd it became heated).

I was thinking perhaps we should put the two Instagram lists together to see their pattern to each other.

I looked at her side. It's not as clear. I think she was in a relationship with a boy her age around December and through part of January. Maybe that kiss was tad making moves but she didn't reciprocate. In February around Valentine's Day and before and just after she sounds depressed and very down on herself, through February 21. From February 22 on she sounds more optimistic. And the lovey posts are throughout. Sometimes they are directed to girlfriends. But I think by end of February she might be calling the Pervert her best friend.


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[Justthoughts]

Do you think he has savings or valuables, he just filed for bankruptcy in 2012?? I'm asking not questioning you, I really don't know. I just think if you had a bankruptcy case and you and your spouse both had middle class jobs it may be hard to save anything substantial?

We keep talking about his money, but didn't ET have a job? Any idea how much she could have taken with her?

 

[Milenalee]

We keep talking about his money, but didn't ET have a job? Any idea how much she could have taken with her?

She seemed to buy stuff pretty often though. I wonder if she saved much.


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[Vedder]

My main problem with it (other than it being offensive) is ET's family reads this forum. To read that members here think she is a willing accomplice on a joy ride more than likely hurts to the core. On that note, I notice Sis hasn't posted in a day or two.

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Yep, and that's when the "report post" button comes in handy.

 

[policyoftruth501]

I had to spend 10 days there on a business trip a while back. I am not much of a gambler and I live in California, where you are not allowed to smoke indoors in public buildings of any kind. I have never seen or smelled so much indoor smoke in my life. Fortunately my co-worker from LA was there as well. His mom lived in Las Vegas and he knew the city well. He drove over from LA, so he had his car with him. I hung out with him a lot because he is a foodie, knows all of the good restaurants off the strip, and is even less of a gambler than I am. I tried to find things to do when we were not working that didn't involve gambling, because 10 days is a LONG time to be in Vegas. Most of the hotel shows were super expensive and there were none that interested me, but I really enjoyed the dolphin show at the Mirage - there were two adorable newborn baby dolphins. Some people really enjoy Las Vegas, but I am not one of them. After 2 hours, I am ready to leave.

I completely agree. In all 5 trips I've made to Vegas I was there for a week for 4 of the trips and 10 days for the fifth trip. There is a lot to do in Vegas, but after a long stay (and 5 long stays) the list of things to do gets pretty short.


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[Kakidoll]

<modsnip>

I do however not think this type of kidnapping is on the same level as a 3 yr old being taken by a stranger from their front yard and sexually molested/murdered. BIG difference in my opinion.
At what age is a 'child' going to be held responsible for their own actions? 10? 12? 15? 18? 21? If your 13 yr old neighbor murdered your 9 year old, does he get a pass because his parents are horrible people? If a 16 yr old is stealing alcohol from the neighborhood store and drinking it with friends on weekends, is she 'allowed' because her parents are drunks, so its not her fault? LE is starting to charge 13 yr olds as adults in some criminal cases. BIG hot topic there. The stupid viral ' I cashyou ousside, how bat da' teen....... Not responsible for her attitude because?????

Where is the line drawn? If 15 is not responsible AT ALL for their actions, then they should never be out of their parents sight. No school dances, no jobs, no dating, etc. They are not mature enough to know right from wrong?

Then it can be stretched further. Girls mature more quickly than boys. So a girl is responsible enough at 21 to make decisions, but males have to wait til they are 25 to do anything without permission? Who judges when they are ready?

Yes, i'm going to extremes. I'm not trying to change anyones mind on ET. TC most definitely is WRONG, and CRIMINAL because he acted on a situation he should have NEVER even put himself into. ET was told not to do things, she did them anyway. Why, BECAUSE SHE IS 15. and 15 year olds think they know as much as adults. Its only when you are older that you can look back at yourself and say... WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING.

She has had a very rough life and most likely WAS looking for ANYTHING she could grasp onto. I think he sucked her in with the religious aspect, taking her to church with them... BAD MOVE. But it looked ok at the time because his wife was there, he took others, maybe there were friends of hers at that church, WE DON"T KNOW.

They need to be found, she needs MASSIVE amounts of therapy, support and a MUCH more stable environment, and i'm going to go out on a limb and say she needs it AWAY from family. She was unhappy, even in her dads house, and no one noticed this going on thru her SM.... so either it wasn't being supervised, or it didn't jump out to anyone in particular that this girl was headed down a dangerous road. She could have just run away and been a statistic on the streets somewhere. Then we wouldn't be talking about her as much.... and i'm glad it DIDN"T happen that way, because there is a MUCH better chance of finding her now.

This is not black and white. Its shades and shades and shades and until she if found and HER mindset known, its going to be hard to help her.

Its not about him at this point. He'll end up in jail, as he should. HE should have known better, even if he THINKS he had good intentions at one time. HE CAN be blamed for this and SHOULD take the responsibility for ALL of it. And again, when caught, i'll be very curious if he 'mans up' (which i doubt) and admits he knew better and to blame him.

<mod snip> But please, lay it out for me about WHO/WHEN we can decide how to determine responsibility age

 

[Deleted member 172065]

I don't know as they're actively attempting to victimize a child, but whether they mean to or not, that's the potential outcome. I think as we age we forget so many things. We forget how our lives were so much more controlled by others at 15. Think about it, at 15 this girl still raises her hand and asks permission from the adults to go to the bathroom. If those children weren't so well trained to follow the orders of the teachers in that school, it would be bedlam. They're taught not to even speak until given permission. That's life for a teenager and they don't find that abnormal. So when that same adult who you have to ask permission of to even speak tells you to run away, is it any wonder you do? He's not just grandpa on the street, he's her teacher and he's large and in charge from 7am to 3pm. Here's a small example. Ever see a kindergarten mom see how her child behaves at school in comparison to home? I've heard moms be shocked when they see their child hang up their coat at school and sit down quietly. That same child will drop his coat on the floor for Mommy to pick up, but he'll hang it neatly on the hook at school. That's some amazing power those teachers have, and when it's used for good it's wonderful. But it can be used for bad things and when it does we end up with a child's face on a milk carton. This is a far cry from a 15 year old girl who runs off to be with her 18 year old boyfriend. And why anyone can't see that is beyond me. That it even needs explanation defies logic. I get delusions, but really, fifty, flabby and....fabulous? Maybe to another 50 year old, but at 15? No, that's not robbing the cradle, that's robbing the womb.

Absolutely! My 2 daughters are married to men their age and have children. Going with a man OLDER than 30 years would never happen. Something is very "off" here!