Found Safe TN - Mary Catherine Elizabeth Thomas, 15, Maury County, 13 March 2017 #15 *Arrest*

[pegs]

[video]http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/father-abducted-tennessee-teen-speaks-46967405[/video]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/father-abducted-tennessee-teen-speaks-46967405

Video - ABC Interview with father of ET today. Talks about sometimes she is happy and laughing and the same 'ol girl, sometimes in fetal position crying. That she lost weight, and were eating flowers, and she collected the rocks - and one specifically as a gift for her father.

I just wish they hadn't called her a 'runaway' at the beginning of the segment. Terms like that are what have kept some people from seeing this as a serious crime. Ugh. I just wish the media would think more about how a simple thing like that can lead to almost insurmountable complacency and denial.

Other than that, I was happy to see how relieved the father was and the fact that Elizabeth collected stones for her father speaks mountains about her frame of mine. She had every intention of seeing her family again.

The part about eating flowers was very disturbing. Tad was no boy scout and certainly no outdoorsman so that was taking a real chance, especially with a child who has a history of food allergy. Every day I detest him more. :steamed:

 

[Gardenista]

[video]http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/father-abducted-tennessee-teen-speaks-46967405[/video]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/father-abducted-tennessee-teen-speaks-46967405

Video - ABC Interview with father of ET today. Talks about sometimes she is happy and laughing and the same 'ol girl, sometimes in fetal position crying. That she lost weight, and were eating flowers, and she collected the rocks - and one specifically as a gift for her father.

I love her dad.

 

[Rosewater20]

I just wish they hadn't called her a 'runaway' at the beginning of the segment. Terms like that are what have kept some people from seeing this as a serious crime. Ugh. I just wish the media would think more about how a simple thing like that can lead to almost insurmountable complacency and denial.

Other than that, I was happy to see how relieved the father was and the fact that Elizabeth collected stones for her father speaks mountains about her frame of mine. She had every intention of seeing her family again.

The part about eating flowers was very disturbing. Tad was no boy scout and certainly no outdoorsman so that was taking a real chance, especially with a child who has a history of food allergy. Every day I detest him more. :steamed:

I think he thought he was judging by his Instagram survival stuff...or at least he made out to others he was . He is very selfish. Some kind of personality disorder. Yes we never go anywhere without an epi pen. One selfish sick man.

 

[possumheart]

I truly think there is something bad going on psychologically with that man. Narcissism is just the tip of the iceberg. The flower eating may have been showing off, his way of being 'free' with nature when he was obviously out of his league ideologically and practically on the commune (couldn't light a fire without throwing gas on it and himself lol). Some flowers are poisonous and possibly hallucinogenic (I'm not North American, can't comment).
I am just weirded out by him picking Elizabeth up like a little child ('up, up') and then them unashamedly making out like adolescents, given he is a grandfather aspousing conservative Christian values. He's lost the plot. Maybe he thought he would walk in there and fast track to Guru by osmosis.
I am sorry, too, that some of this is being publicised, for Elizabeth's sake.

 

[jessarox]

[video]http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/father-abducted-tennessee-teen-speaks-46967405[/video]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/father-abducted-tennessee-teen-speaks-46967405

Video - ABC Interview with father of ET today. Talks about sometimes she is happy and laughing and the same 'ol girl, sometimes in fetal position crying. That she lost weight, and were eating flowers, and she collected the rocks - and one specifically as a gift for her father.

From that video:



If that photo is recent then wow... She looks so young.

 

[blue22]

Many people get confused about what is a pedophile. A pedophile is someone who is attracted to pre-pubescent children. A man being attracted to a 15 or 16 year old may be a 'pervert' or "dirty old man" as defined by society, but that doesn't make him a "pedophile." It is, of course, illegal in most states to have any sexual contact with a minor, defined as a person under the age of consent (18 yrs old in most states).

Why would a man be attracted to a young female of age 15 or 16? Unfortunately this is where biology comes in. We humans only used to live to age 30 at most, and many times humans died before reaching age 30. We're talking thousands of years ago. The urge to procreate to perpetuate the human species is ingrained in our DNA and our DNA hasn't changed in the last umpteem thousands of years. What's changed is life spans and societal norms and rules. Young men and young women are, generally speaking, more fertile and that is why there is a biological attraction to young adults. In pure biological terms, an adult is someone who is able to procreate.

Now, before anyone gets their panties in a twist and writes a scathing missive, it's not an excuse or a defense; attraction has a basis in evolution and biology and hence the "why." Let me repeat, it's not an excuse or defense, please don't mistake it as such.

Sources: "The Naked Ape" by Desmond Morris; Helen Fisher, Anthropologist and author of many books; my college anthropology class.

Please hear me when I say I know you are not excusing behavior. With that said, people do use these thoughts as an excuse for illegal, immoral, and abusive behavior.

As the worlds age and humanity adapts, so does our cognitive reasoning and understanding of trauma, the brain, and children /minors. The fact is, we adapt. We grow. We ARE higher evolved. We understand how damaging these crimes are against minors. We understand that this attraction is antiquated and deviant. We know better. Period. His "attraction" can and should only be described as deviant. Attraction is multifaceted. IMO, TC was not only immorally attracted to a young minor, he was also attracted to control, abuse, repression, and manipulation.

Our brains evolve, not just our bodies and our ability to live longer. Intellectually, emotionally, cognitively...we know it's wrong. He KNEW it was wrong. If you (in the general meaning) are willing to believe that attraction has a basis in evolution, than you must believe that it continues to evolve with our reasoning and higher evolution as a species.

I understand why you posted this, but IMO we must be careful...because it's a short, slippery slope to acceptance. (All JMO)

 

[everybodhi]

Please hear me when I say I know you are not excusing behavior. With that said, people do use these thoughts as an excuse for illegal, immoral, and abusive behavior.

As the worlds age and humanity adapts, so does our cognitive reasoning and understanding of trauma, the brain, and children /minors. The fact is, we adapt. We grow. We ARE higher evolved. We understand how damaging these crimes are against minors. We understand that this attraction is antiquated and deviant. We know better. Period. His "attraction" can and should only be described as deviant. Attraction is multifaceted. IMO, TC was not only immorally attracted to a young minor, he was also attracted to control, abuse, repression, and manipulation.

Our brains evolve, not just our bodies and our ability to live longer. Intellectually, emotionally, cognitively...we know it's wrong. He KNEW it was wrong. If you (in the general meaning) are willing to believe that attraction has a basis in evolution, than you must believe that it continues to evolve with our reasoning and higher evolution as a species.

I understand why you posted this, but IMO we mist be careful...because it's a short, slippery slope to acceptance.

So true.
We aren't completely ruled by our biology, our brains separate us from animals.

 

[Madeleine74]

Please hear me when I say I know you are not excusing behavior. With that said, people do use these thoughts as an excuse for illegal, immoral, and abusive behavior.

As the worlds age and humanity adapts, so dies our cognitive reasoning and understanding of trauma, the brain, and children /minors. The fact is, we adapt. We grow. We ARE higher evolved. We understand how damaging these crimes are against minors. We understand that this attraction is antiquated and deviant. We know better. Period. His "attraction" can and should only be described as deviant. Attraction is multifaceted. IMO, TC was not only defiantly attracted to a young minor, he was also attracted to control, abuse, repression, and manipulation.

Our brains evolve, not just our bodies and our ability to live longer. Intellectually, emotionally, cognitively...we know it's wrong. He KNEW it was wrong. If you (in the general meaning) are willing to believe that attraction has a basis in evolution, than you must believe that it continues to evolve with our reasoning and higher evolution as a species.

I understand why you posted this, but IMO we mist be careful...becuaae it's a short, slippery slope to acceptance.

No IMHO it isn't a short slippery slope to acceptance. And yes, we are driven by biology, but it's laws and mores that serve as boundaries.

We have many laws that clearly demarcate where the lines are drawn and most everyone knows what is lawful vs unlawful behavior when it comes to adults vs minors. Attraction and feelings can't be legislated, but behaviors certainly can (and have been). Laws are there to protect and determine what is allowed in our society.

This seems to happen whenever such a discussion point it made--immediately hackles come up and the information is then turned into some kind of argument as if the behavior is somehow okay. I never said that; it's not even close. In fact I twice specified it's not an excuse.

A refusal or unwillingness to understand the "why" an attraction occurs is not a slippery slope. Yet people ask all the time. WHY? WHY would a man be attracted to a teenager? There's an answer and that answer happens to be based in science. That doesn't make it okay or legal, nothing slippery about it.

 

[blue22]

No IMHO it isn't a short slippery slope to acceptance. And yes, we are driven by biology, but it's laws and mores that serve as boundaries.

We have many laws that clearly demarcate where the lines are drawn and most everyone knows what is lawful vs unlawful behavior when it comes to adults vs minors. Attraction and feelings can't be legislated, but behaviors certainly can (and have been). Laws are there to protect and determine what is allowed in our society.

This seems to happen whenever such a discussion point it made--immediately hackles come up and the information is then turned into some kind of argument as if the behavior is somehow okay. I never said that; it's not even close. In fact I twice specified it's not an excuse.

A refusal or unwillingness to understand the "why" an attraction occurs is not a slippery slope. Yet people ask all the time. WHY? WHY would a man be attracted to a teenager? There's an answer and that answer happens to be based in science. That doesn't make it okay or legal, nothing slippery about it.

I'm not arguing or offended. Though it seems you took it personal, which it wasn't. (Apologies if I've misinterpreted tone.)
I was expressing my thoughts, as are you. I think it absolutely is a slippery slope to society accepting and ignoring behaviors. You and I will not agree on this, and that's ok. It would be boring and pointless if we all agreed.

I am not refusing to accept WHY. I personally think we've cognitively most passed using that argument as an excuse or explanation as why. Again, no issues agreeing to disagree. Why is not something we will agree on. No big deal.

ETA: When I said excuse, I mean society makes excuses...not you. Just wanted to be clear about that.

 

[Madeleine74]

I think it absolutely is a slippery slope to society accepting and ignoring behaviors.

I agree; where do you think that's going to happen and how? I'm not seeing how discussing it and understanding it lead to accepting and ignoring behaviors? It's good you're not refusing to accept the "why," do you agree some people have asked that very question (why?)

 

[white rabbit]

I know this was posted but this goes to what I was trying to say last night:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/21/us/tennessee-fugitive-teacher-arrest-weekend/


"Cummins was charged with one federal count of transportation of a minor across state lines for the purpose of criminal sexual intercourse, said Jack Smith, acting US attorney for the Middle District of Tennessee. The charge carries a minimum of 10 years.

He also faces state charges of sexual contact with a minor and aggravated kidnapping, the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation said last month.

Tennessee law allows children older than 12 to decide whether to leave their families unless their removal or confinement "is accomplished by force, threat or fraud."

To prove kidnapping, prosecutors will need to show the 15-year-old was unlawfully removed or had her freedom restricted.

That determination remains to be seen. But what's important now, Elizabeth's relatives said, is that she comes home and begins the process of healing."

IMO what the relatives are saying is absolutely correct -- because they have to reverse the damage done so ET will realize and affirm that she was indeed abducted and victimized...kwim?

 

[lynxofsd]

IMO, he had no clue - or a (false) romantised idea - about life in a commune...

I'm sure you are right about that, but I would go a step further.

I think TC had a false, romanticized idea about this whole caper. It is even possible that he thought he could orchestrate some sort of arrangement where he and ET could live "off the grid" and go undetected for months if not years--although I'm sure he had his doubts, and often.

I have a theory that they ended up in Berkeley because it has a reputation of supporting a permissive, do-your-own-thing type of consciousness that might (in TC's mind) have allowed them to blend in more. He probably realized after arriving there that they were likely to be identified and detained/arrested by LE in short order.

I'm not convinced that BBR (or commune life) was on TC's radar before they left Tennessee. He and ET ended up at BBR because they were out of money and out of options. He was desperate and knew he was a wanted man with a teenager he had kidnapped and was sexually assualting. I think that is what the members of the commune picked up in a gut sense through his demeanor and actions, and pretty quickly at that. When they were sent packing, they walked right back into civilization, as well as the skeptical eye of one person who identified them (on the second go around) almost immediately.

I don't think TC had much of a plan. He simply absconded with ET, made it up as he went along, and tried to do whatever he could to stay undercover for just one more day.

He's obviously not an experienced criminal, but he knew he was wanted by the police for very serious crimes, no matter how he may have rationalized them. He's a sociopath, but I don't think he was so delusional that he didn't believe they would be caught before too much time elapsed.

It is very fortunate that he was separated from his guns when they were captured. I don't think he thought he had much more to lose.

 

[blue22]

I agree; where do you think that's going to happen and how? I'm not seeing how discussing it and understanding it lead to accepting and ignoring behaviors? It's good you're not refusing to accept the "why," do you agree some people have asked that very question (why?)

It already happens. People already think it's acceptable l, based on biological circumstances of the past. I did not say it shouldn't be discussed. I said it should be discussed carefully, and that's just opinion which I stand by.

 

[Mom24]

I don't get it either. Like some magical number of years make you a mature adult. 17 years 364 days makes one incompetent to make their own decisions. The next day suddenly they are a competent adult able to make their own decisions? :facepalm:

Some have mentioned brain development as a key factor. Well, brain development takes about 25 years. So a 20 year old's brain development is at about 80%. A 15 year old's brain development is at about 60%.

I'm sorry, I don't get it.

Yes, there is a magical number. At 11 years old most children are large enough to reach the gas pedal and steering wheel but we don't let them drive. We let them drive at around 16, because yes, there is a "magic" that happens. It's why we have milestones like walking, talking and fine motor skills like holding a spoon or a sippy cup; magic happens. It really does. In the teen years the magic isn't only neurological development, but it's also ruled by hormonal development. Fluctuating hormones in both males and females does amazing things, it grows breasts in females, it lengthens vocal cords in males, makes hair grow in strange places and the all time favorite of most teens...the dreaded acne monster. All of this combined with a still developing neurological system involved now in executive functioning (e.g. making decisions and setting priorities) makes the teen years a special kind of time. Any parent of a teen will say "they're acting like a 2 yr old one minute and a 22 year old the next". Yes they are, and it's all these changes that are going on and so until they can be a bit more rational both neurologically and hormonally, we protect them from themselves and any predators. It's like you've heard before, we "wait until they grow a brain". Essentially before 18-21 these children are mix of poor impulse control and hormones, all mixed up in an adult sized body.

 

[MsMtOlympus]

From linked article below:

"The saga began in March, after Cummins handed over the title of his SUV, put up some other personal effects and walked out of a loan office with $4,500 in cash."

Could TC really only have had the $4500 that we have known about since the beginning? No reports have surfaced since his capture that any additional monies were located. I was convinced early on that there had to be more stashed away (perhaps up to $3000 or so in addition to the $4500) but considering that he was borrowing as little as $40 just days ago and looking for work, he was clearly flat broke. I am shocked that he thought he could lay-low with so few funds to start out with. Also, would be curious to know what "the other personal effects" were that were sold or pawned for cash.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...acher-her-father-says/?utm_term=.a50fd4735239

 

[Mom24]

I agree. I think on a narcissist danger scale, Tad Cummins is extreme. I honestly think though, that Elizabeth was probably safer at the commune than being alone with Tad Cummins.

Commune folks sometimes get a bad rap. Many are harmless, free spirits, and just want to do their thing. I suspect if Elizabeth had opened up or been given an opportunity away from Tad Cummins to bond with some of the commune people, they very likely would have helped her. It sounds like Cummins was extremely controlling and limited her contact.

Tad Cummins aggressive behavior when he was kicked out of the commune and his sense of entitlement (lazy at the commune) is one of the things I had suspected are part of his character. I suspected he couldn't hack the camping and he was more a sissy type in terms of doing hard work, and yet he thinks he should be able to do whatever he wants and reap the rewards of others hard work.

I have always felt that as time goes on, we will eventually find out that JC life with Tad Cummins was horrible. I think he is capable of physical and certainly mental abuse. I am wondering about physical abuse with Elizabeth in particular, as the commune commented that Tad Cummuns and Elizabeth showered with their clothes on. Maybe Elizabeth had signs of abuse and that could be the reason? I know they said he cited their 'beliefs' but in view of what he has done, I consider much of what he says about his religion to be self-serving hogwash. JMHO.

BBM. This is how he acts with adults, adults who he needs something from. His own peers. He's a fugitive, trying to keep a low profile and he's aggressive with adults. You can just picture what he's like with a child who is now dependent on him. Truly frightening.

 

[Kapua]

This was heartbreaking to watch. The rock collected for her father tells me that she was not yet aware that her abductor was never going to let her see her family again or even contact them in any manner.

Her father must have wondered every night if his child was cold, hungry, or sick. I did, too. And now we know. Thank God she is home and at least warm, comfortable, and in familiar surroundings now with people who truly love her.

As for TC, I hope the Feds throw the book at him. :rage:

 

[bestill]

I hope her father and siblings are getting therapy too. I fear that any sign of anger towards TC before ET understands what happened to her is so wrong on many levels will only make her defensive of him. I also hope all of his correspondence is monitored closely, I see him trying to contact her. I really don't think this is over between them, sad to say, and I feel like he will reach out to her, it may be years down the road and out of the blue. It will rock her world again.

 

[tlcya]

Please begin moving to Thread #16. This one will close in a few minutes.

 

[MsMtOlympus]

I hope her father and siblings are getting therapy too. I fear that any sign of anger towards TC before ET understands what happened to her is so wrong on many levels will only make her defensive of him. I also hope all of his correspondence is monitored closely, I see him trying to contact her. I really don't think this is over between them, sad to say, and I feel like he will reach out to her, it may be years down the road and out of the blue. It will rock her world again.

I totally agree that TC would try if possible to contact ET in order to continue to manipulate his victim even while behind bars. However, I believe that all phone calls and letters from all prisoners are monitored (with this example being one of the scenarios that the system wants to avoid) so thankfully, there is little to no chance that she would be on the receiving end of a call or letter. That's what I'm telling myself, at least.