TN - Shooting at private Christian Covenant School, Nashville, suspect dead, multiple victims, 27 Mar 2023 #2

[YepperBepper]

The article I linked makes it clear the Nashville police still don't know the motive. And the head of the TBI has made it clear the shooter was mentally ill.

Nashville police wouldn’t confirm the contents of the journal writings, and a department spokeswoman said they remain “under review and the motive is yet to be determined.”

He added that he has concerns about releasing the writings “out of fear that someone else with a mental illness picks it up and uses it as a plan. That concerns me more than anything.”

Hmmm. Interesting. I'm curious about the diagnosis. We already know what the Louisville shooter was being treated for. Imho. Strange. IMHO

 

[Arkay]

I'm curious why you think the public needs to know what is in the writings of a now deceased mentally ill person? What if it results in another mass shooting such as the one in Louisville? The Louisville shooter's brain is being tested for CTE, a mental illness.

I'm rather confused about this. Generally speaking, things like this are released. Generally speaking, the public wants transparency. We want to know "why".

We have seen video footage of the shooter pulling into the school parking lot, shooting through the doors and walking through the shattered glass Rambo style. We have had the opportunity to view the footage of the shooter comfortably holding weapons, in cammo looking like a sniper conducting a search, shoot and kill mission. We have had the opportunity to view the body cam footage of the police from the time they arrived until the time they neutralized the shooter. We had the opportunity to listen to some very harrowing 911 calls. I'd suggest all of these things could very well inspire those with bad intentions.

Why is a two to three page document written by the shooter which may give us some indication as to "why" off limits? What are we so afraid of? What could the shooter have possibly said that could be so shocking that it could be somehow more "inspiring" than what has already been released?

Finally...has it been confirmed that this shooter was mentally ill?

All IMHO.

I vacillate between both points of view, but at the moment I lean towards not releasing her journals.

LE has said several times that it’s not a “manifesto,” proper. More just drawings and ramblings.

Imo if it isn’t something that helps this nation to avoid mass murders, then I don’t see any benefit, except to satiate our curiosity.

I think each murderer has his or her own reasons, which make sense only to that person. Even when it’s a team such as Columbine, Eric and Dylan had different motives for their school shooting.

Therefore, imo releasing the journals here will only fuel others who want this infamy, yet will do nothing that will give us an answer on how to stop the next one.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Hmmm. Interesting. I'm curious about the diagnosis. We already know what the Louisville shooter was being treated for. Imho. Strange. IMHO

What was the Louisville shooter being treated for?

 

[Lyall0814]

"I’ll tell you it’s not close to anything that people are subjugating out there and exposing their opinions on"

Perhaps not the best thing to say if you want to reduce the amount of 'subjugating' going on out there, imo.

 

[YepperBepper]

I vacillate between both points of view, but at the moment I lean towards not releasing her journals.

LE has said several times that it’s not a “manifesto,” proper. More just drawings and ramblings.

Imo if it isn’t something that helps this nation to avoid mass murders, then I don’t see any benefit, except to satiate our curiosity.

I think each murderer has his or her own reasons, which make sense only to that person. Even when it’s a team such as Columbine, Eric and Dylan had different motives for their school shooting.

Therefore, imo releasing the journals here will only fuel others who want this infamy, yet will do nothing that will give us an answer on how to stop the next one.

JMO

I haven't seen anyone ask for the journals. I've seen requests for the "manifesto", which according to early reporting is about 2 to 3 pages. That said...I understand your viewpoint, respect it, but disagree with it.

Let's go further. There is a theory out there that national reporting on school shootings can cause copycats or contagion. I believe this is very possible:

After a mass shooting: Examining the role of media coverage

Is news coverage inspiring more mass shootings? Not necessarily, but with each incident comes complicated questions for journalists, says CU Boulder Professor Elizabeth Skewes.

www.colorado.edu

If there's a chance that reporting does do that, is it best that it's not reported at all? If our goal is to stop any chance of causing social contagion or inspiring others, then it's probably best that nobody reports on these situations when the occur.

I'd suggest that surveillance footage, body cam footage and 911 calls should not be released either, if the concern is the inspiration of others with ill intent. These videos are graphic, raw and would be extremely inspiring for anyone dabbling with the thoughts of a mass shooting, IMHO. Frankly, there is zero reason to release any of this in any future cases except to satiate our curiosity or provide transparency.

If the shooter is dead and there will be no public trial, it's likely best that it is ignored and we move on if our concerns are actually about contagion and inspiration.

I'd also suggest that we need to censor those who wrote books or who have detailed videos and information on the internet regarding previous mass shootings. In almost every case I can think of, this type of information is a library card or a click away. IMHO


Ps. I don't think any of the above is how we should address this, but for those who indicate that the release of the 2 to 3 page writing of this shooter will be too negatively inspiring and dangerous..then I assume they would also agree with zero reporting, zero release of information and censorship of information of mass killings for all cases previous, current and in the future to prevent negative impact. If we really want to do "something" to prevent this phenomenon...we should not make it about one very small thing, but cover all bases for safety. Imho

 

[YepperBepper]

What was the Louisville shooter being treated for?

Family of Louisville shooter said he had 'mental health challenges' but 'no warning signs' of 'shocking' mass shooting

"No words can express our sorrow, anguish, and horror at the unthinkable harm our son Connor inflicted on innocent people, their families, and the entire Louisville community," according to his

www.wdrb.com

Anxiety and depression.

 

[Lyall0814]

You might be right with your argument, Yepper, if this case didn't involve children being targeted. Maybe AH's text does too. If so that could make a difference in the decision about what should be released and what shouldn't?

 

[YepperBepper]

You might be right with your argument, Yepper, if this case didn't involve children being targeted. Maybe AH's text does too. If so that could make a difference in the decision about what should be released and what shouldn't?

All school shootings involve children, though...and we have massive amounts of information out there and readily available on most school shooters.

I can't think of a school shooting case where we don't have the nuts and bolts and "hard copies" of things.

Imho

 

[YepperBepper]

"I’ll tell you it’s not close to anything that people are subjugating out there and exposing their opinions on"

Perhaps not the best thing to say if you want to reduce the amount of 'subjugating' going on out there, imo.

Exactly.

Additionally, it was reported for quite some time that Hale held a "resentment" against the school. That appears to be out the window now, too. It seems weird, but we have now morphed into a case with 4 dead children and no motive per various spokespeople that are viewing the information that they aren't publicly releasing while telling everyone not to jump to conclusions. Smh and LOL.

 

[MyBelle]

I haven't seen anyone ask for the journals. I've seen requests for the "manifesto", which according to early reporting is about 2 to 3 pages. That said...I understand your viewpoint, respect it, but disagree with it.

Let's go further. There is a theory out there that national reporting on school shootings can cause copycats or contagion. I believe this is very possible:

After a mass shooting: Examining the role of media coverage

Is news coverage inspiring more mass shootings? Not necessarily, but with each incident comes complicated questions for journalists, says CU Boulder Professor Elizabeth Skewes.

www.colorado.edu

If there's a chance that reporting does do that, is it best that it's not reported at all? If our goal is to stop any chance of causing social contagion or inspiring others, then it's probably best that nobody reports on these situations when the occur.

I'd suggest that surveillance footage, body cam footage and 911 calls should not be released either, if the concern is the inspiration of others with ill intent. These videos are graphic, raw and would be extremely inspiring for anyone dabbling with the thoughts of a mass shooting, IMHO. Frankly, there is zero reason to release any of this in any future cases except to satiate our curiosity or provide transparency.

If the shooter is dead and there will be no public trial, it's likely best that it is ignored and we move on if our concerns are actually about contagion and inspiration.

I'd also suggest that we need to censor those who wrote books or who have detailed videos and information on the internet regarding previous mass shootings. In almost every case I can think of, this type of information is a library card or a click away. IMHO


Ps. I don't think any of the above is how we should address this, but for those who indicate that the release of the 2 to 3 page writing of this shooter will be too negatively inspiring and dangerous..then I assume they would also agree with zero reporting, zero release of information and censorship of information of mass killings for all cases previous, current and in the future to prevent negative impact. If we really want to do "something" to prevent this phenomenon...we should not make it about one very small thing, but cover all bases for safety. Imho

It's not just school shootings. The Highland Park IL shooting was at an outdoor July 4th parade. The shooter's dad had run for the office of Mayor and had lost by a wide margin. Was that a factor in his son's decision to open fire? I have no idea, but the father also has been charged with assisting his son with his gun purchase in violation of Illinois' strict gun laws.

I think LE is more concerned about extremist rhetoric and misinformation on social media that can influence someone mentally unbalanced to commit any act of violence such as the attempted murder of Rep. Pelosi's husband and the mass shooting that injured Rep. Scalise. That's why LE supports Red Flag laws, which are intended to restrict gun ownership by the mentally ill.

JMO

 

[Lyall0814]

All school shootings involve children, though...and we have massive amounts of information out there and readily available on most school shooters.

I can't think of a school shooting case where we don't have the nuts and bolts and "hard copies" of things.

Imho

But information isn't usually released this quickly is it? It's not even three weeks since the attack. I'm not in the US and don't follow every similar US case, but I'm sure you're right about them. I know Rodger's writing was immediately being read and discussed, but that's because it was left online. If he'd left it in his car would the authorities have released it to the public this quickly? (I guess they would have had to eventually with the FOI laws you have. But initially they might have let a journalist see it and excerpts may have been printed. They might do that with AH's, imo. Initially anyway).

 

[MyBelle]

Exactly.

Additionally, it was reported for quite some time that Hale held a "resentment" against the school. That appears to be out the window now, too. It seems weird, but we have now morphed into a case with 4 dead children and no motive per various spokespeople that are viewing the information that they aren't publicly releasing while telling everyone not to jump to conclusions. Smh and LOL.

The school's principal was killed so I think it is very possible AH had resentment toward the evangelical school's "teachings", but it sounds like we may never know for sure even if her writings are released.

JMO

 

[YepperBepper]

But information isn't usually released this quickly is it? It's not even three weeks since the attack. I'm not in the US and don't follow every similar US case, but I'm sure you're right about them. I know Rodger's writing was immediately being read and discussed, but that's because it was left online. If he'd left it in his car would the authorities have released it to the public this quickly? (I guess they would have had to eventually with the FOI laws you have. But initially they might have let a journalist see it and excerpts may have been printed. They might do that with AH's, imo. Initially anyway).

The rapidity by which it happens probably varies. I know FOIAs are involved in some cases. That said, I don't recall a case where there is a public demanding LESS information....until now. Perhaps I missed it.

What it striking to me however is that raw footage that is immediately released without any public objection or hand wringing. If you haven't already done so, watch the surveillance video coupled with the body cam footage on this case ..and then add in the 911 calls for good measure. Clearly, in the wrong hands, this stuff COULD be highly suggestive. Kwim?

I'm all for transparency.

But if we, as a society, decide that we don't want truth and transparency in the name of public safety, then let's do it. Imho

 

[YepperBepper]

The school's principal was killed so I think it is very possible AH had resentment toward the evangelical school's "teachings", but it sounds like we may never know for sure even if her writings are released.

JMO

It's not just school shootings. The Highland Park IL shooting was at an outdoor July 4th parade. The shooter's dad had run for the office of Mayor and had lost by a wide margin. Was that a factor in his son's decision to open fire? I have no idea, but the father also has been charged with assisting his son with his gun purchase in violation of Illinois' strict gun laws.

I think LE is more concerned about extremist rhetoric and misinformation on social media that can influence someone mentally unbalanced to commit any act of violence such as the attempted murder of Rep. Pelosi's husband and the mass shooting that injured Rep. Scalise. That's why LE supports Red Flag laws, which are intended to restrict gun ownership by the mentally ill.

JMO

Bbm. The best defense against misinformation is transparency. 100 percent transparency. IMHO

Otherwise, people will jump to conclusions. For example, most believe that this mass murder had to do with Hale's dislike for evangelicals particularly related to transgender issues, yet the article you posted above hints that it's quite the opposite:

Quote from link:

"I’ll tell you it’s not close to anything that people are subjugating out there and exposing their opinions on..."

End Quote

Considering this, wouldn't it be helpful if the information supporting this quote could be released so we could stop people from spreading misinformation? If this case ISN'T about gender issues or Christians, wouldn't it be in our best interest to put that theory to rest so as not to incite radicals on either side?

Imho

 

[Ontario Mom]

I'm curious why you think the public needs to know what is in the writings of a now deceased mentally ill person? What if it results in another mass shooting such as the one in Louisville? The Louisville shooter's brain is being tested for CTE, a mental illness.

Simply, to allow us, the general public, to wrestle with understanding why she, the mass shooter, did what she did.
In her own words, to understand what she was influenced by and who she was influenced by.

So that we, the general public, have a fair and accurate representation of what she believed, in her own words.

 

[MyBelle]

Bbm. The best defense against misinformation is transparency. 100 percent transparency. IMHO

Otherwise, people will jump to conclusions. For example, most believe that this mass murder had to do with Hale's dislike for evangelicals particularly related to transgender issues, yet the article you posted above hints that it's quite the opposite:

Quote from link:

"I’ll tell you it’s not close to anything that people are subjugating out there and exposing their opinions on..."

End Quote

Considering this, wouldn't it be helpful if the information supporting this quote could be released so we could stop people from spreading misinformation? If this case ISN'T about gender issues or Christians, wouldn't it be in our best interest to put that theory to rest so as not to incite radicals on either side?

Imho

Not all Christians are evangelical Christians and this mass murder took place at an evangelical school/church.
I think it is quite possible AH disliked the <modsnip: offensive> evangelical church but the reason for her to make a giant leap to mass murder and suicide by cop, may never be known.

 

[MyBelle]

Simply, to allow us, the general public, to wrestle with understanding why she, the mass shooter, did what she did.
In her own words, to understand what she was influenced by and who she was influenced by.

So that we, the general public, have a fair and accurate representation of what she believed, in her own words.

I'm not sure how deranged rants from a mentally ill person aids public understanding. If anything, it sounds to me like a copycat crime that LE are trying to prevent more from happening.

At a meeting of the Tennessee Sheriff’s Association, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation Director David Rausch said the shooter’s writings were ramblings indicating no clear motive.

Rausch said a review so far of the material found the shooter did not write about specific political, religious or social issues, according to WTVF. Instead, WTVF reported, a primary focus of the journals was idolizing those who committed previous school shootings.

MSN

 

[evilwise]

Perhaps a misplaced attempt at masculinity.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I'm not sure how deranged rants from a mentally ill person aids public understanding.

RSBM

Well, you asked and I answered.

I believe in understanding and fairly and accurately representing opposing views, from mainstream society so that we all understand them a little better, if at all possible.

 

[Sundog]

I can't think of a school shooting case where we don't have the nuts and bolts and "hard copies" of things.

<snipped for focus>

Makes you wonder, doesn't it.