GUILTY TN - Six elementary students killed in Chattanooga school bus crash, 21 Nov 2016

[KaaBoom]

Why did they move the bus before NTSB got there? Wouldn't that have been important for them to see?

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/11/chattanooga-crash-investigators-search-answers/

Probably to reopen the street. I'm sure the police took enough pictures of the bus and documented scene. I think the NTSB will be more interested in examining the maintenance records for the bus and the qualifications of the driver. I'm sure the wreckage has also been impounded, and they have the bus's black box to examine. That should be adequate for their investigation.

 

[Jax49]

http://media-cdn.timesfreepress.com...h1689f9139e61de5386aff5a71e6bbdc2c93690c9.jpg

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...en-killed-bus-crash/399334/#photogallery_2804

Photos of bus, memorial, blood donors and mourners. So incredibly sad.

Seeing the bus makes it clear any child seated in the area of impact didn't have a chance, imho.

ETA: Another report of the bus speeding through the neighborhood before.

Elise Braswell Martin opened her front door to find bloodied children walking away from the overturned bus. She consoled the children closest to her, and helped whoever she could find."Every time I close my eyes, I see the children walking across the street," she said.
Alice Careathers said she still had a knot in her stomach a day after witnessing the crash.
"It's never left," she said. "I'm still seeing it."
The bus often sped through the neighborhood, she said, and she had asked the city to install speed bumps on the curvy road before, but was told officials couldn't install the bumps because the road was a "main street."

 

[margarita25]

http://media-cdn.timesfreepress.com...h1689f9139e61de5386aff5a71e6bbdc2c93690c9.jpg

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...en-killed-bus-crash/399334/#photogallery_2804

Photos of bus, memorial, blood donors and mourners. So incredibly sad.

Seeing the bus makes it clear any child seated in the area of impact didn't have a chance, imho.

ETA: Another report of the bus speeding through the neighborhood before.

Speeding before...Infuriating, to say the least...:shakehead:

Such precious, valuable cargo...

My thoughts tonight to the families who lost their children, and to the little ones still recovering from their injuries.

No matter who who who's who, the kids will never be brought back. Hopefully some measures can be put in place so something like this doesn't happen again.

I'm still wondering about the validity of the comment re: "are yall ready to die".

 

[Elley Mae]

Speeding before...Infuriating, to say the least...:shakehead:

Such precious, valuable cargo...

My thoughts tonight to the families who lost their children, and to the little ones still recovering from their injuries.

No matter who who who's who, the kids will never be brought back. Hopefully some measures can be put in place so something like this doesn't happen again.

I'm still wondering about the validity of the comment re: "are yall ready to die".

I heard this as well, multiple children said that is what he said. "are you ready to die." unbelievable.

 

[K_Z]

Bus company at center of wreck had 142 injury crashes, 3 deaths in 2 years

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/bu...hes-3-deaths-in-2-years/ar-AAkAONs?li=BBnbcA1

The driver in the Chattanooga case, 24-year-old Johnthony Walker, has been charged with five counts of vehicular homicide. In 2014, he had his license suspended following a crash, according to the Tennessee Department of Safety.

BBM.

So, at roughly the age of 21-22 years old, JW had his driver's license suspended following a crash. And still, even THAT was not "enough" to prevent him from being employed driving a school bus?? Exactly how bad does someone's driving record have to be to prevent them from having a CDL and driving a school bus?

Or, did he even have a valid CDL? It's a reasonable question:

The private company that owned the bus involved in Monday's fatal wreck in Chattanooga that killed five elementary school students has had 142 crashes with injuries and three fatalities in the last 24 months, according to federal records.

They're a large company, and they have an overall satisfactory safety rating from the administration, but they still have more problems when it comes to driver fitness than their peers, the records show.

The administration's records on Durham state "93% of motor carriers in the same safety event group have better on-road performance than this motor carrier."

There have been eight driver violations against Durham since December 2014, according to the administration. Although none of those drivers were in Tennessee, seven of the incidents involved drivers who didn't have the appropriate license needed to operate the vehicles they were driving.

A 2014 investigation by WMC Action News 5 in Memphis found that Durham drivers had wrecked 11 buses in less than two months. In three of those cases, the drivers were at fault, and one driver didn't have a license or school bus credential.

BBM

Still waiting to hear the toxicology results on this driver. Because I have a strong suspicion the results will be positive for more than one prohibited substance.

Mateen also said she had complained repeatedly since August about the driver’s behavior before the accident, to no avail. She said that just last week the driver allegedly told the kids: “Shut the F up, I have a hangover,”

http://wncn.com/2016/11/22/chattano...l-bus-driver-asked-if-they-were-ready-to-die/

 

[K_Z]

Chattanooga bus driver previously had license suspended, was in crash two months ago

CHATTANOOGA, Tenn.--The Tennessee Department of Safety and Homeland Security report of Chattanooga school bus driver Johnthony Walker shows his driver's license had been suspended in 2014 due to failure to provide proof of insurance and was also involved in a crash in September of this year.

The paperwork reflects Walker was involved in a property damage accident on September 20,2016. Walker was driving a bus at the time and did not negotiate a curve properly, crashing with another vehicle. In 2014, Walker failed to show proof of insurance, leading to his license being suspended from March 3, 2014 through March 28, 2014 before being reinstated.

The report also states Walker was issued his Class B license in April of 2016 and wears corrective lenses.

http://fox17.com/news/local/chattanooga-bus-driver-previously-had-license-suspended-following-crash

Here's the 7 page traffic report from his September 20th bus accident:

https://www.scribd.com/document/331978097/Walker-Full-MVA-REPORT

Interestingly, he was NOT tested for drugs or alcohol after that accident. I wonder why??

 

[Elley Mae]

There was a school bus (no children) that (looks like) crashed into an on coming mta bus , ( w/ people) intentionally. 6 people killed. Bus driver was not suppose to be driving, school bus company has been let go. This happened a few weeks ago on frederick rd baltimore, iirc he was going 90 before impact. Seems that their requirements have been brushed to the side. Jmo

 

[K_Z]

Hamilton County School District spokeswoman Amy Kutcher declined to say whether the district had received any complaints involving Walker, who was employed by an outside bus contractor, Durham School Services. She referred all questions about his performance and that of other Durham drivers to the company.

"Legally there is no way that we could discipline someone who is not our employee," Kutcher said. "We've got 192 Durham bus drivers. Obviously, this is a bad one."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/11/2...was-known-for-speeding.html?intcmp=latestnews

And this is a critical pitfall of school transportation outsourcing-- the district loses the ability to hire/ fire, influence, discipline, or control personnel who have direct interaction with students.

Durham has had other drivers who have run into legal trouble in the school district that includes Chattanooga, according to news reports. Last year, one driver pleaded guilty to aggravated statutory rape, and another was arrested on child-*advertiser censored* possession charges. Both were fired.

Another issue with "outsourcing" school transportation that is rarely discussed is that in many geographic areas, one company essentially has a monopoly on the market. Meaning, there really is no competition for bids, as there is often not another company that is close enough, or big enough, to carry out the needs of the contract with a large district.

 

[Jax49]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tenness...ny-walker-told-his-mom-after-deadly-accident/

The investigation into the deadly Tennessee school bus crash is focused on speed and the actions of the driver. Dazed members of the Chattanooga community are mourning the loss of five children – a kindergartner, a first grader and three fourth graders.Twelve students are still receiving treatment at the Children’s Hospital in Chattanooga -- six in critical condition.
The investigation into the deadly wreck has turned to the bus driver, 24-year-oldJohnthony Walker, who faces multiple charges. Walker’s mother said she spoke to him after the crash, reports CBS News correspondent Manuel Bojorquez.
“He said, ‘I love you mom, I’ve been in an accident on the bus’ and he said, ‘Mom there are kids dead, I hope it’s not my fault,’” she said.

I'm sitting on my fingers regarding his statement...

 

[JeannaT]

I would really like to know more about the complaints against the driver. The one grieving mom tells a story of writing a letter to the principal and the principal reading the letter to the bus driver, in the presence of some students, and the bus driver said "I'll do it again". I'll do what again, exactly? Was it a safety issue, or was it a perceived slight of the children, or not waiting at a bus stop for kids who are probably on the way, etc? Don't tell me this principal couldn't call the Durham bus company (I'm sure they're in direct contact all the time, for late buses, items left on buses, etc.) and say this bus driver isn't driving kids from my school anymore. Hindsight. Sad.

if this mother really called several times, and wrote a letter to the principal that the principal acknowledges receiving and reading, about SAFETY concerns, this is partially on the principal, IMHO. I'm really curious specifically what the concerns were - and a too rowdy bus, or failure to control kids on the bus, or other common parent complaints wouldn't rise to the level of consistent unsafe driving.

I do have some degree of empathy for the mother of the bus driver, and always hurt for people in her position. Usually, though, they say things like "we are heartbroken and our lives will never be the same". Not "don't judge him" and "this is God's will". It's hard to imagine saying those things. I can imagine feeling them - not saying them.

 

[Jax49]

Governor's press conference got testy when no one would answer if the "letter" complaining about the driver existed.

 

[JeannaT]

Are you sure? I'm having no problem viewing the location in Streetview. There is a missing section of images, but that's past the crash location.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0243029,-85.2348314,3a,66.8y,125.88h,79.93t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sfjlknW_MgQjmsLpHffU3PQ!2e0

You can also view it in Bing Maps.

https://www.bing.com/mapspreview?osid=54a915e3-52ee-4397-9bee-eaa8affa3c09&cp=35.024302~-85.234823&lvl=19&dir=130.337&pi=13.81727&style=x&mo=z.0&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027

I don't know what's going on here. So, the wreck was at 317 Talley Road. Below is an article showing a group of cheerleaders praying over the accident site, and you can clearly see the address on the mailbox is "317".

[video=cnn;us/2016/11/22/driver-charged-school-bus-crash-martin-savidge-newday-pkg.cnn]http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/22/us/tennessee-chattanooga-school-bus-accident/index.html[/video]


So you google 317 Talley Road, Chattanooga, TN and here's your map. 317 is the 3rd house on the left, after the intersection of Talley and Midwoode Road. At that stretch, you can't land the little yellow guy on the road - and only that stretch. You can land him anywhere else in the whole area.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/3...0x88606728c4457fa3:0x4b37e5e7cdb94 d82?hl=en


Does anyone else see it differently? Sorry to pick nits, I just noticed this with the other Tennessee horrific crime, and now here it is again with this one.

 

[Jax49]

I don't know what's going on here. So, the wreck was at 317 Talley Road. Below is an article showing a group of cheerleaders praying over the accident site, and you can clearly see the address on the mailbox is "317".

[video=cnn;us/2016/11/22/driver-charged-school-bus-crash-martin-savidge-newday-pkg.cnn]http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/22/us/tennessee-chattanooga-school-bus-accident/index.html[/video]


So you google 317 Talley Road, Chattanooga, TN and here's your map. 317 is the 3rd house on the left, after the intersection of Talley and Midwoode Road. At that stretch, you can't land the little yellow guy on the road - and only that stretch. You can land him anywhere else in the whole area.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/3...1s0x88606728c4457fa3:0x4b37e5e7cdb94d82?hl=en


Does anyone else see it differently? Sorry to pick nits, I just noticed this with the other Tennessee horrific crime, and now here it is again with this one.

There is a section where you can't land, but you can access it by moving the little guy from north or south of that area. At least that is what I'm seeing. Odd.

 

[Jax49]

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2016/11/22/94266486/

Press conference from earlier.

 

[JohnPaul]

Seems every week there is a bus crash somewhere in the US.How long will it be and how many hurt or killed before seatbelts are mandatory?

no point IMO,

even if the driver checked to see if everybody was buckled before departure the kids would be taking them off 10 seconds later, kids are kids,

 

[JeannaT]

no point IMO,

even if the driver checked to see if everybody was buckled before departure the kids would be taking them off 10 seconds later, kids are kids,

Can you imagine, in a situation like this, trying to unbuckle all those kids? I wonder if those kids who were killed or severely injured would have been helped by being held firmly in place? My guess is the NTSB will be able to answer that. I would think there's a possibility that being glued to the seat wouldn't have helped them.

 

[flourish]

no point IMO,

even if the driver checked to see if everybody was buckled before departure the kids would be taking them off 10 seconds later, kids are kids,

Well, let's just resign ourselves to it and not try to solve the problem, then.

Really though, it's possible. Like I mentioned up thread, I taught preschool for years. We provided bussing services. We had 5 point harnesses on every single child. That's 20 children aged 3-5. If a child removed the harness, the bus pulled over until the aide got them back in the seat buckled.

Speaking of bus aides, I personally think it's absurd that there is any situation where only one adult is present with a group of children! How can anyone think that's a good idea? How can bus drivers be okay with that? It opens them up for accusations, founded or not. A camera, while perhaps more cost effective, is not a reasonable substitute for an actual human.

Cost is certainly why bussing aides don't exist everywhere, though. Which is a shame. This is the most precious cargo that exists. Spend some freaking money to keep them safe!

 

[JohnPaul]

I personally think it's absurd that there is any situation where only one adult is present with a group of children!

huh ?

not sure where you come from, but in schools around here there is only one adult with a group of children all day long.....they are called teachers in the classroom

 

[flourish]

huh ?

not sure where you come from, but in schools around here there is only one adult with a group of children all day long.....they are called teachers in the classroom

In schools, while there may be one adult in a room with a group, they're not quite alone as there's an entire school with lots of adults around. On a bus, it's an isolated setting. Which is why some schools do have bus aides. A driver cannot safely and effectively drive and supervise at the same time. Buses need two adults minimum. Not only because of incidents like this, but because there's a lot of bullying and similar issues which occur on buses because drivers really can't drive and supervise at the same time.

 

[JeannaT]

Well, let's just resign ourselves to it and not try to solve the problem, then.

Really though, it's possible. Like I mentioned up thread, I taught preschool for years. We provided bussing services. We had 5 point harnesses on every single child. That's 20 children aged 3-5. If a child removed the harness, the bus pulled over until the aide got them back in the seat buckled.

Speaking of bus aides, I personally think it's absurd that there is any situation where only one adult is present with a group of children! How can anyone think that's a good idea? How can bus drivers be okay with that? It opens them up for accusations, founded or not. A camera, while perhaps more cost effective, is not a reasonable substitute for an actual human.

Cost is certainly why bussing aides don't exist everywhere, though. Which is a shame. This is the most precious cargo that exists. Spend some freaking money to keep them safe!

Well, yes, you have to buckle babies into carseats. That's true in buses or passenger cars. In buses where there aren't severe discipline problems, there aren't bus aides - but in cases where the children are dangerous to one another or the bus driver -or the children have physical impairments - there aren't bus aides.

Statistically, school buses are VERY VERY safe ways for kids to get to school. Compared to all the other ways to get to school - walking, private cars, buses are safe.