Found Safe TN - SLP, 14, Madisonville, Monroe County, 13 Jan 2019 #5 *ARRESTS*

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Then why would he drive her all the way to St. Louis to mail the package to the FBI? I am totally confused here. He is an educated man. Men his age know full well that they can be tracked through their ISP's, especially those gaming rooms. He also told her many times to go to a friend's house, to go to LE, to go to the hospital and get a rape kit.

That's why I thought that maybe he wanted the proof because if he came to help her get out of that house, he wanted physical evidence that this occurred. He drove far away to help this girl, and he did emphasize several times he would get into trouble trying to help her without evidence. From what I have read, LE said that they only chatted for a couple of weeks before she went missing. He doesn't appear to have a criminal past, and I was waiting to find something online, where possibly other victims of his came forward, even anonymously, but so far, I haven't seen anything. I haven't seen any blight on his character anywhere. Of course, that doesn't mean a blessed thing if he, too abused her.

It just seems like he did an awful lot of work to help her, just to abuse her. Why let her write a letter to the FBI and help her deliver that and the memory stick (or whatever you call it) of the video, knowing full well they will track her and you down to your home?

It just seems that he is intelligent enough to know that not only would he be tracked down as well as SP, but that also, if he had sex with her, it would show up on a rape kit. I mean, this guy was telling her to go to the hospital and get a rape kit, and he had to know that once the FBI took her away, they would do a rape kit.

I just don't get it. I wish I could understand his mind set.

The trip to St. Louis was performed like the trip to & from TN. There was nothing identifying where that package came from. SP also made a video on a burner phone to tell her family she was safe. From Court Doc: "The SD card also contained a video that KV made using a burner phone—the purpose of which was to assure her family that she was alive and well."

But, again, did not divulge where she was staying.

The FBI utilized the digital evidence at SP's home, to determine their location in WI. Without that trail, LE had no idea where they were. I wonder if they would have ever found her at her new basement digs? IMO MHO
 
So far, I am only finding hearsay - BR's interview that the child told him she told her mother about the assaults and her mother did nothing. None of the chats/messages that I have read have her saying these words to him that I can find. Anyone else find it?

-------------------------------------------

BRYAN ROGERS’ MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF RELEASE PENDING TRIAL - 35 pages

Attached Files:

BDR court doc.pdf
File size:
 
The legal community is interested in following this case because of a fear of the possibility of a legal precedent being won using gray areas of the law. Defense lawyers would not, of course, see the "fear" in this, but prosecutors most certainly do.

I have believed from the moment I learned of the powerful law firm who are representing B.D.R. that this was their intent. Their subsequent court filings confirmed this.

The information and facts finally presenting themselves have lessened the possibility to zero but still there is always a great concern in cases such as these.

We have faith that there will not be a legal precedent concerning the issues in this case.

Can you imagine how detrimental that would be to future victims - perpetators receiving lesser sentences because of new case law in this area? Horrific to even consider.

This is why there is so much interest in this case, especially from a legal perspective!

I'm part of the legal community but don't see any concerns with legal precedent. Those (good intent and protection) would have been simple, mitigating factors, IMO.

Are there any articles on this supporting your contention? I'd be interested to read that.
 
I respectfully disagree that the information was scarce. For me there was a lot of information early on that revealed who this man was. The defense memo gave even more that really solidified it.

I think there was a ton of info to indicate he was a predator and had bad intentions.

1. His actions as a 31 year old male in befriending a 14 year old child online. Just that, period, was a major problem for me. And discussing things outside gaming and gaining her trust so quickly? Massive red flag.

2. His exceedingly cold, manipulative and demanding conversations with her in which he coerced her to produce a recording of herself being raped and send it to him...as the ONLY certain means of rescuing her and ensuring she would not be returned to her rapist. These conversations were exceedingly inappropriate, intentionally misleading and predatory and indicated a desperation to get a recording of a child being raped.
He exhibited such a callous disregard for the suffering of the begging, pleading child, in his efforts to get access to child *advertiser censored*, that it broke my heart into pieces.

3. His failure to thoroughly explore with her multiple other options for being rescued and his downplaying of options she suggested, twice running away- "hope for the best". The defense would've outlined this as they presented their best evidence in their memorandum.

4. The risk factor of her being and revealing online that she was a child sex abuse victim and her extreme, suicidal desperation. That made her a target for online and other predators. They eat that up. It's like a bullseye.

5. HE NEVER CALLED 911. A 31 year old man faced with a suicidal, severely sexually abused minor child. Absolute and total, inexcusable b.s. Few well intentioned and cognitively typical adults would fail to do that IMO.

6. He never told her to instead email the recording directly to LE/FBI.

7. He claimed that he could not safely rescue her (without facing legal problems), without the video, indicating it would be evidence that would be strong enough to protect him. But inexplicably, once he got that strong evidence, he didn't immediately turn it over to LE. If it was good enough for him to feel safe in "rescuing" her it was good enough to take directly to LE without delay.

8. He drove hundreds of miles to pick up a minor child and transport her out of state. What well-intentioned 31 year old, intellectually typical adult male does this?

9. When he got her, he didn't immediately take her to the police or sheriff. He drove her hundreds of miles, away.

10. Her only means of communication were smashed and disposed of.

11. He hid her in his home.

12. He lied to LE about her whereabouts when they questioned him.

13. They waited almost two weeks to send evidence to the FBI. Any concerned, non-predatory and cognitively typical adult would've sent that evidence immediately. Not two weeks later. Having a job is no excuse.

14. He graduated from college and had a job and showed no evidence of cognitive/neurological impairment or intellectual disability or serious mental illness in his communications with this vulnerable, minor child. He was sharp, canny and calculating in his communications, IMO.

This is a lot of information for us to consider in forming opinions and judging character, I feel. A lot.

I think the red flags were massive and waving fast and directly in our faces.

But ultimately and upon reflection I don't think people had poor judgment. I think it's simply that our brains just couldn't accept any more victimization of this child! And when many others are having a similar opinion, combined with not being able to cope with more horror, it's easy to disregard some facts and basics about human behavior.

I had moments of doubts about his intentions as well. It's too damn much to comprehend! It's almost Kafkaesque.
Page 8 Defense memorandum- "show them the recording you got earlier" BR trying to convince her to make the new video - so he knew there was already one recording and pressed on to get a new clear one for "evidence". He also references it again towards the bottom "show the people you run to the recording" from BR after discussing her thoughts of suicide and running away. And the defense thought this would help prove their case? JMO
2 recordings of rape - let that sink in....I missed the first reference until just now. poor baby.
 
So far, I am only finding hearsay - BR's interview that the child told him she told her mother about the assaults and her mother did nothing. None of the chats/messages that I have read have her saying these words to him that I can find. Anyone else find it?

-------------------------------------------

BRYAN ROGERS’ MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF RELEASE PENDING TRIAL - 35 pages

Attached Files:

BDR court doc.pdf
File size:

If the FBI was able to retrieve all of their chats, on all the platforms they used, they have not released anything related to mommy dearest IMO :)
 
I respectfully disagree that the information was scarce. For me there was a lot of information early on that revealed who this man was. The defense memo gave even more that really solidified it.

I think there was a ton of info to indicate he was a predator and had bad intentions.

1. His actions as a 31 year old male in befriending a 14 year old child online. Just that, period, was a major problem for me. And discussing things outside gaming and gaining her trust so quickly? Massive red flag.

2. His exceedingly cold, manipulative and demanding conversations with her in which he coerced her to produce a recording of herself being raped and send it to him...as the ONLY certain means of rescuing her and ensuring she would not be returned to her rapist. These conversations were exceedingly inappropriate, intentionally misleading and predatory and indicated a desperation to get a recording of a child being raped.
He exhibited such a callous disregard for the suffering of the begging, pleading child, in his efforts to get access to child *advertiser censored*, that it broke my heart into pieces.

3. His failure to thoroughly explore with her multiple other options for being rescued and his downplaying of options she suggested, twice running away- "hope for the best". The defense would've outlined this as they presented their best evidence in their memorandum.

4. The risk factor of her being and revealing online that she was a child sex abuse victim and her extreme, suicidal desperation. That made her a target for online and other predators. They eat that up. It's like a bullseye.

5. HE NEVER CALLED 911. A 31 year old man faced with a suicidal, severely sexually abused minor child. Absolute and total, inexcusable b.s. Few well intentioned and cognitively typical adults would fail to do that IMO.

6. He never told her to instead email the recording directly to LE/FBI.

7. He claimed that he could not safely rescue her (without facing legal problems), without the video, indicating it would be evidence that would be strong enough to protect him. But inexplicably, once he got that strong evidence, he didn't immediately turn it over to LE. If it was good enough for him to feel safe in "rescuing" her it was good enough to take directly to LE without delay.

8. He drove hundreds of miles to pick up a minor child and transport her out of state. What well-intentioned 31 year old, intellectually typical adult male does this?

9. When he got her, he didn't immediately take her to the police or sheriff. He drove her hundreds of miles, away.

10. Her only means of communication were smashed and disposed of.

11. He hid her in his home.

12. He lied to LE about her whereabouts when they questioned him.

13. They waited almost two weeks to send evidence to the FBI. Any concerned, non-predatory and cognitively typical adult would've sent that evidence immediately. Not two weeks later. Having a job is no excuse.

14. He graduated from college and had a job and showed no evidence of cognitive/neurological impairment or intellectual disability or serious mental illness in his communications with this vulnerable, minor child. He was sharp, canny and calculating in his communications, IMO.

This is a lot of information for us to consider in forming opinions and judging character, I feel. A lot.

I think the red flags were massive and waving fast and directly in our faces.

But ultimately and upon reflection I don't think people had poor judgment. I think it's simply that our brains just couldn't accept any more victimization of this child! And when many others are having a similar opinion, combined with not being able to cope with more horror, it's easy to disregard some facts and basics about human behavior.

I had moments of doubts about his intentions as well. It's too damn much to comprehend! It's almost Kafkaesque.
and one more - he did not enlist the help of his mother who he was close to according to the memorandum supporting his release on bail
JMO
 
Plus, working hard to keep an open mind often looks like siding with the perceived bad guy. Stay open its the best way.

Not always.

(I just watched this mind-blowing documentary).
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/582145/

A lot of harm can come from ignoring red flags. The Gift of Fear. Someone cites that book a lot on websleuths and I think that's a good example of not ignoring instinct and logic in order to see the best in people or to remain open minded when it comes to crime.

The judge and jury need to remain open-minded. The rest of us can use our critical thinking skills and personal experiences to form opinions about the probabilities about someone's character or whether they have done something wrong or ill-intentioned, or not, based on info we can access immediately. (Innocent until proven guilty is a legal principle that applies to the actual justice system but not to the attitudes and opinions of the investigators or the general public).

I think we do it all the time - judging based on what's at hand - in order to keep safe. Sometimes personal or cultural biases impede the process but otherwise, I believe "judging" can get an uncessarily bad rap!

Of course sometimes there is surprise information that changes everything but I tend to start from the premise that LE was not corrupt or inept when a probable cause arrest occurs, nor when the decision by the Feds or state to charge a person based on the evidence THEY have, was made.

You know what I mean?
 
Time for a breather. This 'case' is amazingly brutal with these twists, and turns. And it does soothe my soul, that so many really do care about SLP. So many care about who she IS, how she IS, and worry about how she will BE. This will be a time for this child to find her new normal, just like JC. And if she does need to attend trials, I'm sure many will show her their support. :) MHO
 
Was it a rush to paint BR as just another bad guy?

That Judge should have stopped proceedings, and held a private conference.

IMO this was a mistake. This should not have been in the public realm. IMO MHO

ETA: I thought minors, whether labeled with initials or not, are not identified in any manner? Not even with initials. Not even family members identified? Or is that only when the perp is a minor? Color me angrily confused :(

Someone said it was an argument the prosecution made during the hearing, that got reported. Evidence comes out in hearings and at trial and in complaints and arrest reports and there are no inherent privacy rights for victims in this.

That's because we don't like secret trial in this country. The exception would be Colorado (color me shocked) and certain controversial federal terror cases.

Keeping evidence private enables corruption. The public wants to ensure that people aren't being wrongfully accused or convicted. You know?

Use of initials is the standard in child sex abuse and child abuse cases. As someone else pointed out, the reason we know her identity and know that the evidence applies to her is because she was reported missing and a nationwide search for her occurred.

In the very vast majority of cases of crimes against minors we never know who the victims are. Just initials.

Once the statement was made by the sheriff? that she had been raped by her father, te bell could not be unrung. The complaint/arrest report was even worse.

I don't know what can be done to protect known victims from having such sensitive and private info published while still maintaining an open and transparent legal system. It's a problem.

I still remember the witch hunt of Tonya Craft in a Georgia backwater. If it wasn't for the public being able to access the evidence, I don't think she would ever have been acquitted.
 
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I would hope not and I do not think he would have become another JP. However, we really know nothing at this point so who can say? He at the very least let/allowed her to send in her evidence, she clearly was not stopped from doing so and that says a lot to me... No one wishing to never have her found nor the adoptive dad arrested would have wanted that nor helped with it imo. I do however, have my mind open to revise that opinion depending on what we learn with further facts...

I don't know. Someone who may have never progressed to actually having the "prey" in his home might have felt he had to allow her to do that at a certain point. He knew he couldn't keep her there forever, alive. And he doesn't seem to be a killer.

It also likely kept her compliant.

But he was very careful to try to conceal their whereabouts wen that stuff was sent.
 
She couldn't give consent, she is a minor child and her parents are her legal guardians at least, until last notice. Maybe that is why the DA was there, maybe she is a ward of the state, but I would have thought that would be Tennessee not Wisconsin.
It was an assistant U.S. Attorney not a DA. The case is in federal court because the video crossed state lines.

JMO
 
Yeah, you have whatever information is available to you at a point in time, and make a judgement if you feel confident in your analysis.

People are innocent until proven guilty in the court of law. But WebSleuths is not the court of law, our standards are lower because we are just discussing a case. So we are only accountable to each other.

I tend to shy away from condemning or exonerating a suspect until I am comfortable with my analysis. I don't want to falsely accuse anyone, even if it is just here on WS. There are no trophies for being first and no demerits for not taking a stand.

Personally, I was not comfortable with condemning BDR from what I knew yesterday morning. Not defending, just stating that I could not make the conflicting information on the "rescue" line up. The issue of whether there was SA after picking up SLP was what I needed to know.

It seems one of the keys for gitana (and others) was analyzing the messages between BDR and SLP. gitana was pointing out things in her posts that I didn't see, and there were some things that I wasn't sure I agreed with upon first read.

But I get it now and can learn from it. Well done gitana.

There's probably some advantage in being an attorney because we are ruthlessly drilled in examining dense texts and quickly identifying and pulling out the important facts. Because we have to read dozens of cases in a short amount of time while studying and never know when we will be called on to analyze and be put on the spot and challenged about a case and our analysis. (The Socratic Method is what I endured).

Also, we are forced to set aside our passions in analyzing facts and the law, and have to argue whatever side we are given, even if it's a horrible one. And that was hard to do at first because I'm very passionate and have a lot of empathy and emotion, especially about justice. I'm a pretty sensitive person actually.

But you have to be able to set that aside and clinically analyze a case. If you can't you're not going to make it through school or in this business.
 
Great info, thank you. So, what would sealing the case entail?

I really don't know. I have to review the federal and TN state law. In CO it's SUPER easy from what we've seen.

What I've seen in the past is that some evidence can be sealed before trial. Some evidence - like psych evals of defendants -are almost universally, automatically sealed.

Gee. Seems the rights of the perps to privacy are greater than the victims!
 
If this goes to trial with RP and goes to trial with BR is it absolutely necessary for SP to take the stand or can the evidence speak for itself?

Oh some of it definitely can speak for itself. But I think they'll put her on the stand.

A plea deal would probably be best case scenario for her. She's endured enough!
 
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