To those of you sitting on the fence....

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I do believe there might be a good faith basis for believing the note is in PR's handwriting based on handwriting.

Works for me.

"Hence" and "narcisstic" "journalistic" are too commonplace and vague. I use the word Hence.

I get you, but just to be fair, it's not "hence" it's the use of "and, hence," because it's a redundancy.

If the forger has been in the house before, and was there hours before as he wrote the note, using PR's writings as a guide, it might be possible.

Possible? Yeah, I suppose. But how LIKELY?

I think that the RDI have strong prima facie evidence that the handwriting is a match to PR based on the specific examples provided. Yes HOTYH is correct for the standard of a professional handwriting analysis. But I think there is a good faith rational basis to think the two handwritings are from same author.

:clap:

By way of comparison, I would agree with HOTYH that the handwriting of Rn and JR look nothing alike.

That makes three of us.

redeemed said:
Oh no!!! Seems we are back to square one with you again....what happened...you were doing so well....(sigh)

He STILL is, redeemed. No need to panic.
 
Works for me.



I get you, but just to be fair, it's not "hence" it's the use of "and, hence," because it's a redundancy.



Possible? Yeah, I suppose. But how LIKELY?



He STILL is, redeemed. No need to panic.

Dave, looking at

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89705"]Listen carefully, It's up to you now, - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

and hence

View Poll Results: Do you see a resemblence?

yes
Dawnmarie, LadyL, LoveMyDogs, mollymil23, PattyCake, slug

no
chckmate22, madeleine, redeemed, SuperDave

You're free to post your own handwriting here, "the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs" and I can try to emulate it using entirely different sentence, and let others decide how close the two samples are.
 
Dave, looking at

Listen carefully, It's up to you now, - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

and hence

View Poll Results: Do you see a resemblence?

yes
Dawnmarie, LadyL, LoveMyDogs, mollymil23, PattyCake, slug

no
chckmate22, madeleine, redeemed, SuperDave

You're free to post your own handwriting here, "the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs" and I can try to emulate it using entirely different sentence, and let others decide how close the two samples are.

That might be a bit difficult, since I have no way to get it to you.

And for the record, I'm not trying to strong-arm you. You're approaching this with an open mind, and that counts for a lot with me.
 
That might be a bit difficult, since I have no way to get it to you.

And for the record, I'm not trying to strong-arm you. You're approaching this with an open mind, and that counts for a lot with me.

Have you ever got around to writing out the RN


Listen carefully, It's up to you now, - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
 
Work has me kind of swamped. Hope you understand.

whooo-peeer

Apology accepted captain Dave. whooo-peeer

you only need to copy the first paragraph.

Perhaps the reason the forger wrote out "Mr and Mrs Ramsey" and crossed it out is that he felt it was too close to his own handwriting and not similar enough to PR's.
 
whooo-peeer

Apology accepted captain Dave. whooo-peeer

you only need to copy the first paragraph.

If I can remember. Still, it wouldn't do much good. I haven't got any way to post it here.

Perhaps the reason the forger wrote out "Mr and Mrs Ramsey" and crossed it out is that he felt it was too close to his own handwriting and not similar enough to PR's.

I doubt it.
 
If I can remember. Still, it wouldn't do much good. I haven't got any way to post it here.



I doubt it.

can you scan it? you can get scans at local library or kinko's? provided you are still breathing.
The emperor is not as forgiving as I am.

Is there a picture of the handwriting "Mr and Mrs.." in missing pages prior to RN?

I could be different than the RN.

I believe what my eyes tell me.

Spin Lords, what-if

What if the handwriting "Mr and Mrs.." in missing pages prior to RN ripped out of the yellow pad is completely and radically different from either PR or JR?

IDI.
 
Listen carefully, It's up to you now, - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


You're free to post your own handwriting here, "the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs" and I can try to emulate it using entirely different sentence, and let others decide how close the two samples are.
If you were the intruder that night and were for some reason bent on attempting to emulate PR’s handwriting, how lengthy would your RN be? Every character, every word that you attempt takes time and increases the probability that you will fail by virtue of inconsistency. Why attempt 1500 characters and form 350 words?

Voynich, when you attempted to replicate the ransom note that is all that you were doing, you had an example of how every character was formed and even how groups of characters were joined or not joined, spacing between characters, etc. If you were able to find some of PR’s correspondence that day while you were in the house, how many would you find? Would there be enough to see examples of how she would write every letter of the alphabet? (Every letter of the alphabet is present in the RN.)
If there was enough of PR’s writing, keep in mind that as you wrote the ransom note you might very well have to look through those writings multiple times for every word that you attempted.
Picture yourself saying, “I know I saw a “q” here somewhere, where is it?”
Some words you would, of course, find somewhat easily and be able to “simply” duplicate.
How many would there be that you would not find, and instead have the chore of piecing together?
You would not likely find the words; faction, attaché, enforcement and countermeasures, to name a few, in every day correspondence.

As an example, write just one word: countermeasures.
Use the following correspondence as your guide:

5ob0cz.jpg



Now imagine 350 words.
 
If you were the intruder that night and were for some reason bent on attempting to emulate PR’s handwriting, how lengthy would your RN be? Every character, every word that you attempt takes time and increases the probability that you will fail by virtue of inconsistency. Why attempt 1500 characters and form 350 words?

Voynich, when you attempted to replicate the ransom note that is all that you were doing, you had an example of how every character was formed and even how groups of characters were joined or not joined, spacing between characters, etc. If you were able to find some of PR’s correspondence that day while you were in the house, how many would you find? Would there be enough to see examples of how she would write every letter of the alphabet? (Every letter of the alphabet is present in the RN.)
If there was enough of PR’s writing, keep in mind that as you wrote the ransom note you might very well have to look through those writings multiple times for every word that you attempted.
Picture yourself saying, “I know I saw a “q” here somewhere, where is it?”
Some words you would of course find somewhat easily and be able to “simply” duplicate.
How many would there be that you would not find, and have the chore of piecing together?
You would not likely find the words; faction, attaché, enforcement and countermeasures, to name a few, in every day correspondence.

As an example write just one word: countermeasures.
Use the following correspondence as your guide:

5ob0cz.jpg



Now imagine 350 words.

You know, I think it's worth a try, maybe not right now but I think I'll write
something.

I do think that an experience forger or an artist could use the above sample to get a feel for her letters, and write something out.

Is there anything you want me to write out or do you leave that up to me?
Pledge of Allegience?

Have you tried doing this yourself? Use the above letter and try to imitate her letters as you write out something.

Do you just want me to write out countermeasure?
 
can you scan it? you can get scans at local library or kinko's? provided you are still breathing.
The emperor is not as forgiving as I am.

I guess I can look.

Is there a picture of the handwriting "Mr and Mrs.." in missing pages prior to RN?

I could be different than the RN.

I believe what my eyes tell me.

Spin Lords, what-if

What if the handwriting "Mr and Mrs.." in missing pages prior to RN ripped out of the yellow pad is completely and radically different from either PR or JR?

IDI.

If there is such a picture, I know nothing of it.
 
I guess I can look.



If there is such a picture, I know nothing of it.

but if "Mr and Mrs. Ra"

handwriting looks radically different from PR or JR or the RN, but we agree was written by the perp, would you agree this implies IDI?
Of course, it could look exactly like PR's handwriting, which would imply that PR thought the handwriting was too close to her own
so she switched to disguise it even more.
 
I do think that an experience forger or an artist could use the above sample to get a feel for her letters, and write something out.
While true, they might be wasting their time kidnapping if they are that effective at forgery.
Have you tried doing this yourself? Use the above letter and try to imitate her letters as you write out something.
Yes, I did try it – it was hard. I was never good at art and I am now convinced that my career in forgery would be short lived.
Do you just want me to write out countermeasures
Sure, but add more if you wish.
 
While true, they might be wasting their time kidnapping if they are that effective at forgery.

Yes, I did try it – it was hard. I was never good at art and I am now convinced that my career in forgery would be short lived.

Sure, but add more if you wish.

interesting lead----we're looking for forgers
 
The "Mr & Mrs Ra" practice note (which Patsy ADMITTED writing- she said it was a party invitation) was said to match the RN handwriting, wasn't it?
 
Of course, it could look exactly like PR's handwriting, which would imply that PR thought the handwriting was too close to her own so she switched to disguise it even more.

Well...
 

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