To train up a child, book has lead to the death of 3 children

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Lest there be any question about the nature and intent of Michael Pearl, here is his response to the death of little Lydia Statz.

Even my chickens are laughing . . . well, actually it more like cackling, because they just laid another organic egg for my breakfast and they know that it was that same piece of ¼ inch plastic supply line that trained the dogs not to eat chicken....

http://pearlchildtraining.blogspot.com/2010/03/michael-pearl-laughs-at-critics.html

Not one word of sorrow for Lydia. He was too busy laughing.
 
Lest there be any question about the nature and intent of Michael Pearl, here is his response to the death of little Lydia Statz.

Even my chickens are laughing . . . well, actually it more like cackling, because they just laid another organic egg for my breakfast and they know that it was that same piece of ¼ inch plastic supply line that trained the dogs not to eat chicken....

http://pearlchildtraining.blogspot.com/2010/03/michael-pearl-laughs-at-critics.html

Not one word of sorrow for Lydia. He was too busy laughing.

:furious:

I can't believe that there are people that actually follow this &%%#^%!!! :banghead:
 
I did some research the other night and I did find another case. However, my computer broke down because it got too warm and I lost it. I will try to find it.

This case did not end in murder, but the pattern was there; adopted, home schooled, starved and beaten with a plastic instrument.

Just wait some years and more of these adopted kids will come forward.

I am absolutely convinced that this book is recommended in certain Christian adoption communities. It's a shame.
 
I am no way trying to equate spankings with the horrific abuse borne by these poor children.

But why is any form of corporal punishment ok??

It is not acceptable for an adult to hit another adult. We don't let kids hit other kids. So what makes it allowable for an adult to hit a child?

Seems like we recognize the danger in what the Pearls advocate. Why not in any form of physical punishment?
 
Lest there be any question about the nature and intent of Michael Pearl, here is his response to the death of little Lydia Statz.

Even my chickens are laughing . . . well, actually it more like cackling, because they just laid another organic egg for my breakfast and they know that it was that same piece of ¼ inch plastic supply line that trained the dogs not to eat chicken....

http://pearlchildtraining.blogspot.com/2010/03/michael-pearl-laughs-at-critics.html

Not one word of sorrow for Lydia. He was too busy laughing.

I wish Anonymous WAS my personal army, sometimes.

Like - right now.

Can nothing be DONE to stop these people? Nothing? Legal, I mean. :whistle:
 
I honestly don't think this, at the core of it, is about religion at all.

I think it's about creating flocks of mindlessly obedient, scared-to-question, undefiant little robots who'll grow up doing whatever they're told, for the sake of whatever shady, money grubbing cult is behind all this.

Yeah - it does sound a lot like religion... :D But seriously. Something about this, aside from all the dead kids, feels very, very off.

That they are targetting military personnel is a worry, for a start.
 
I am no way trying to equate spankings with the horrific abuse borne by these poor children.

But why is any form of corporal punishment ok??

It is not acceptable for an adult to hit another adult. We don't let kids hit other kids. So what makes it allowable for an adult to hit a child?

Seems like we recognize the danger in what the Pearls advocate. Why not in any form of physical punishment?

I, for one, couldn't agree with you more. I'm always shocked by how many people still think corporal punishment is ok.

You're right in that when we make a mistake at a new job, our supervisor doesn't get to hit us. . .you know. . .for our own good. If a husband and wife are standing on a curb and the wife steps out while a car is still coming, the husband might yell and grab her, but he doesn't get to hit her afterwards. . .you know. . .so she learns not to do that anymore. It's funny how we can see how ludicrous the reasoning is in these situations, but it's somehow still accepted by some when it comes to children.

Never mind that we KNOW that punishment is the least effective form of behavior modification. It just doesn't work very well. IMO, all it really does is teach the child avoidance, e.g. don't get caught! With small children the effects are even worse. It breaks their trust, reinforces that they are powerless, and that people that are bigger than them, can hurt them. :(

I'm not trying to chastise anyone for their beliefs, but I do wish that parents would analyze their thinking and give it some real introspective thought. IMHO, when you know better, you do better.
 
I, for one, couldn't agree with you more. I'm always shocked by how many people still think corporal punishment is ok.

You're right in that when we make a mistake at a new job, our supervisor doesn't get to hit us. . .you know. . .for our own good. If a husband and wife are standing on a curb and the wife steps out while a car is still coming, the husband might yell and grab her, but he doesn't get to hit her afterwards. . .you know. . .so she learns not to do that anymore. It's funny how we can see how ludicrous the reasoning is in these situations, but it's somehow still accepted by some when it comes to children.

Never mind that we KNOW that punishment is the least effective form of behavior modification. It just doesn't work very well. IMO, all it really does is teach the child avoidance, e.g. don't get caught! With small children the effects are even worse. It breaks their trust, reinforces that they are powerless, and that people that are bigger than them, can hurt them. :(

I'm not trying to chastise anyone for their beliefs, but I do wish that parents would analyze their thinking and give it some real introspective thought. IMHO, when you know better, you do better.

What's even more crazy is that in the boss/employee or husband/wife scenario, at least the person being hit would be at somewhat close in size to the person doing the hitting. I am very much against corporal punishment. I think it's crazy that a full grown adult feels it is necessary to strike a tiny child for any reason. To the child, the helplessness, fear and shame that arises from an angry and much larger adult using their large hands on the child, to cause pain, no matter how slight the pain, is pretty real. The psychological aspect of it is often worse than the physical aspect.

And yeah, many kids got spanked growing up and didn't suffer discernible negative affects from it and many parents spank their kids and are good parents who mean well.

But our prisons are filled with adults who got spanked as children.

To me, the number of children who suffered as a result of corporal punishment justifies ending the practice, IMO.

As I've said before, I was a preschool teacher for years before eventually finishing my education and becoming a lawyer. I handled 6-12 tiny kids in a classroom quite well without ever hitting one of them. If I could handle 6-12, why can't some parents handle 1?

It's really not that hard to control behavior, generally. Clearly set out rules that are age appropriate and firm consequences when the rules aren't followed ("oh, you're going to flop to the floor in the store because I won;t buy you something? We're going home then. Cart left in the middle of the aisle, and you won;t get to go with mommy next time."), but even more important, having routines and showing enthusiasm for certain tasks - "Guess what? It's time for us to go brush our teeth!!!! Let's see how well you can do it! Show me!" (uttered in an enthusiastic voice) - praising kids for doing what they were supposed to do - "Good job brushing your teeth!!!!!", and understanding the developmental needs of children (yeah, your two year old does not want to be overstimulated all day at Disneyland or kept up late shopping or in a theater at an adult move), that's how you raise kids who do what they are supposed to do and don't act like creeps while they do it.

I see parents too often expecting their kids to totally adapt to the adults' needs and then acting totally surprised that the child is acting up. Sure, it;s not easy to leave a restaurant with your bratty kid and make them sit in the car while everyone else gets to enjoy their food, or, to go home, when you've just ordered a lovely dinner, or are at a friend's home enjoying yourself (especially if you're a single parent), for example. But you do it a couple times and the kids start acting like angels after that. They learn and not through fear of physical pain and domination by someone larger than them. :twocents:

P.S. Many of the kids in my classes that were the most unruly were ones whose parents used corporal punishment on a regular basis.
 
RSBM

Here is an article written by a woman who used the Pearl method until she managed to get out of her abusive marriage:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolong...a-child-reacts-to-the-death-of-hana-williams/

She says: "Why didn’t I stop [my ex-husband]? I finally did, but early in my marriage I was paralyzed by fear and brainwashed by bad teaching. We both feared raising ungodly kids."

Please note this is posted on a site that is for people who left the Quiverful movement and other survivors of spiritual abuse. I only offer the article because IMO it gives a little insight.


This quote, from her blog post, in a nutshell, is why I am against spanking: "Will I ever forget the confusion and pain in the wide baby eyes of the oldest ones, when I first swatted their tiny hands? They were startled, bewildered. And then they opened their mouths and cried the cry of the completely betrayed, the absolutely alone in the world. I was the only person they even recognized yet, and I had hurt them. To this day, it haunts me, as you will be haunted by your last glimpse of Hana alive, just before she collapsed. Hana’s last stand."
 
That they are targetting military personnel is a worry, for a start.

RSBM.

I think he's targeting people with potential vulnerabilities. People under emotional duress might be easier to sway than others. He also likes to give stuff out in hospitals... It's true that clergy also minister to military and patients, but imo they aren't drumming up support for personal gain.
 
ETA: I completely agree with the many comments here re: corporal punishment. IMO it's simply not the most effective way. Children live what they learn. The consistent choices/consequences model (with plenty of positive reinforcement and unconditional love) will serve them far better in life than the turmoil of physical punishment, imo. Heck, we don't even use fear to train dogs and horses anymore! JMO, YMMV
 
I just saw the Pearl's on CNN-Anderson Cooper. I cannot believe people are taking advise from these two hillbilly bumpkins sitting in the bucket of some farm equipment while giving an interview. Mrs. Pearl sitting there with a big stepford wive smile on her face and ole pa Pearl in his t-shirt and country hat.OMG! I really need to curse!How are these people not in jail? I don't want to hear first admen. rights BS. I will go back and read this thread,I just needed to vent
 
RSBM.

I think he's targeting people with potential vulnerabilities. People under emotional duress might be easier to sway than others. He also likes to give stuff out in hospitals... It's true that clergy also minister to military and patients, but imo they aren't drumming up support for personal gain.

What's up with this guy? Is he some sick fetishist or something? Does he get off on the thought of the ritualized infliction of pain on vulnerable children? Ick.

And you got that right HawksGirl, I wouldn't lay a hand on my dog. I can walk him off leash and all I have to do is snap my fingers to keep him at my side, and point/snap where I want him to go, to get him to heel. People are astounded. He will bound away at my signal and stop short immediately if I barely say, 'Ay!'

I have never once hit that beautiful dog. He's massively huge too. But he adores me and I adore him and give him tons of praise. He's not even that smart!
 
We could get all Old Testament about it - and stone them to death with a big pile of their own crappy books, see how they like being beaten to a pulp..

I'm not in a very 'Christian' frame of mind today, can you tell.

says the (cranky) heathen
 
www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2013/11/26/ac-tuchman-on-to-train-up-a-child.cnn.html

Saw this video a while back, so not sure if it has been posted already.

As far as this book by the Pearls, I had a friend who owned a copy and I looked at the first few pages. That was enough for me.
After she was married we kind of lost contact. OK, I'll be brutally honest, I found it difficult to be around her husband. He is a control freak and one time when my then 3 year-old had a tussle with their 3 yr.old son, her husband wanted to discipline my son alone ---without me (his mom) being present.
I don't think so.
I'd separated them and distracted them with a snack, and it was as if nothing had happened a few seconds later. Anyone who has children knows how that goes.

Just could never spank my own kids ; although my own mom gave us the occasional swat with a wooden spoon, we were never mistreated growing up. Being grounded or loss of tv privileges was way worse than any spanking for us ! :)
And disciplining a baby or toddler is cruel, imo. You treat them like that when they're little and what kind of adults are you raising ??

The Pearl's book is good for starting a fire on a cold day and that is it !
 
OK, I'll be brutally honest, I found it difficult to be around her husband. He is a control freak and one time when my then 3 year-old had a tussle with their 3 yr.old son, her husband wanted to discipline my son alone ---without me (his mom) being present.
I don't think so.

RSBM and BBM

:eek:

Thank god you could put a to stop it! Heaven knows what he had in mind for your child that he didn't want you to see.
 
This thread is taking a turn towards whether or not corporal punishment is right or wrong. It began about a book that is teaching people to abuse children under the guise of discipline.

As individuals we can each make a choice on how we want to discipline. Now what I am speaking of is not the book, but the turn we have taken discussing corporal punishment. I always tried to make the punishment fit the crime. I would never strike a child in anger.ever. But for our family there were times we felt a spanking was the best choice.

That is MOO and I am not criticizing those who choose not to use corporal punishment. Just as I expect not to be criticized for using it.


Babies/infants are too young to be disciplined. But by the time they are reaching toddlerhood and understand no, they are old enough to be disciplined and guided toward correct behavior. Again, MOO.
 
This thread is taking a turn towards whether or not corporal punishment is right or wrong. It began about a book that is teaching people to abuse children under the guise of discipline.
RSBM

Thanks for getting me back on topic.
However, these days it seems like abuse has reached epidemic proportions --- or maybe it's that there's more media coverage of it ?

The book by the Pearls is really not open to alot of different interpretation ; Michael is specific about the length of the "spanking"; as well as the ages of the kids one is supposed to be disciplining . And it is just wrong, imo.
His book is so misguided, and it adds fuel to the fire of anyone who cannot control their anger or abuse of power.

I feel bad for those children who have died because of Pearl's teachings , especially Hannah --- she had such a bright smile !
 
RSBM

Thanks for getting me back on topic.
However, these days it seems like abuse has reached epidemic proportions --- or maybe it's that there's more media coverage of it ?

The book by the Pearls is really not open to alot of different interpretation ; Michael is specific about the length of the "spanking"; as well as the ages of the kids one is supposed to be disciplining . And it is just wrong, imo.
His book is so misguided, and it adds fuel to the fire of anyone who cannot control their anger or abuse of power.

I feel bad for those children who have died because of Pearl's teachings , especially Hannah --- she had such a bright smile !

I totally agree with you. I have often wondered myself if there is more abuse or are we just hearing about it more because with the Internet everything is practically instant and there is so much news available. Maybe it is both?

These poor adopted kids. You used. To only see the pretty side of adoption, especially the overseas ones. Even now, we only seem to hear about the failures. I'm sure the successful ones far outweigh the failures. These parents adopted thinking instant happy family and their reality was so different.
And they had no support system to fall back on for help when these kids proved to have emotional disorders.

Then here come the Pearls with their abusive approach to discipline. There has to be a way to keep these people from putting their book put there. Yes, they have the freedom to publish whatever they want to, but there have to be some kind of repercussions for teaching people to abuse kids.
 

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