Trial break: The State vs Jodi Arias; trial resumes 4 February 2013

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omg you guys.. watch this video where jodi talks about notes from the ninjas!

Jodi Arias on threats received in Calif. jail - 48 Hours - CBS News
I noticed she starts rambling about how the notes came into the jail and MM asks her again what the notes said.
I've also noticed when she starts to tell a lie (well, when is she not lying, right? :rolleyes:) she breaks mid-sentence and goes in another direction. That brain of hers is quick with the johnny-on-the-spot lies.
 
I noticed she starts rambling about how the notes came into the jail and MM asks her again what the notes said.
I've also noticed when she starts to tell a lie (well, when is she not lying, right? :rolleyes:) she breaks mid-sentence and goes in another direction. That brain of hers is quick with the johnny-on-the-spot lies.
Sounds like a pattern of disorganized speech and thoughts to me. :twocents:
 
you know, why must there be a reason for her behavior? Maybe she is just evil. Lots of people with the problems mentioned don't become killers - but just as someone can be born without arms or legs, so can they be born with no conscience. I see her smiling while she lies her way thru interviews - she is just another evil ***** who wanted something she couldn't have.

are we allowed to say ***** here?

Apparently, it's not allowed...you got the ***** treatment! Lol

I agree, no conscience. Born or made evil, I don't care which.
That particular type of evil can't be fixed.
She should be put down like a rabid dog. IMO
 
Yes, name calling in all stars is allowed, as far as I know. :laughcry:
 
IMO the theory raised that a culmination of stressors may have pushed JA over the edge is a good one, especially when there is an underlying psych disorder. I have read the many posts on speculation of diagnoses. From watching the interviews JA gave as well as the police interviews, JA fits the diagnosis of sociopath. She was able to "follow the rules" when they fit her life. She appeared "normal" to those who knew her in her jobs as a waitress and in PPL. And to TA initially. When she realized that changing her religion, location, looks and that sex was not enough to keep TA, she killed him. No remorse. No guilt. The premeditation of her act rules out psychotic break. It is kinda like when neighbors are interviewed after the person next door kills someone and they say the guy was nice, quiet and kept to himself. That person was able to live amongst them never giving anyone a clue as to who he really was. Hannibal Lecter is a perfect example of a sociopath. As is JA.

BBM: I respectfully disagree. I feel her fear of abandonment (TA telling her it is over, going on vaca to Cancun with someone else; TA not responding to her last ditch effort) that set her into the rage. BPD. MOO.
 
you know, why must there be a reason for her behavior? Maybe she is just evil. Lots of people with the problems mentioned don't become killers - but just as someone can be born without arms or legs, so can they be born with no conscience. I see her smiling while she lies her way thru interviews - she is just another evil ***** who wanted something she couldn't have.

are we allowed to say ***** here?



I'm not looking to diagnose her or put a title on whatever's wrong with her other than being a violent soulless murderer but the BBM (the no conscience) roughly equals psychopathy. Look no further than the title of Robert Hare's book "Without Conscience".
 
:moo:

RE: Emotional Stressors

The only piece of info I think could add as a stressor was what Jodi revealed in the interrogation about having been cheated on before by another lover. It also seems that Darryl was not going to marry her after all that time and she maybe she felt particularly rejected. She bet it all on Travis and he let her down too.

It doesn't answer whether she showed signs of being so angry, cold, or cruel before. (well, there's the cat she abandoned and sibling fights, but nothing yet that seems enough to put a name on it)
Leaving an animal in a dark room without adequate food or water for two weeks is definitely a sign of someone with no conscience or feeling, and is animal cruelty. No (and thankfully) she didn't kill the cat in the fashion she murdered TA, however, that is a sign she has no regard for life.

MOO
 
I've been reading some comments from people who knew Jodi previously (high school teacher, Darryl Brewer, and even the Freeman duo). For the most part, it seems Jodi had some issues before Travis, little things here and there like some emotional or angry outbursts and school issues, but no one was ever really scared of her, and there were apparently people who were able to have long term relationships with her.

While she didn't have an impressive resume, it seems she did work hard for a time and contributed her share towards financial obligations with Darryl. We have not heard of a long history of pathological lying (like a certain other acquitted murderess)

No one really has had bad things to say about her until she got involved with Travis. She got into financial trouble right before she hooked up with Travis, and around that time she seemed to experience a great deal of instability in her personal life -- moving around a bunch, changing religions, changing jobs, and then of course the obsessive/desperate behavior she displayed towards Travis, ultimately taking his life in such a brutal manner.

I'm included in those who have called her a psychopath, and she has definitely exhibited those behaviors in her actions and police interviews and demeanor. But all of that seems to dovetail around a particular time in her life when she was experiencing turmoil and chaos basically in every aspect of her life, and not before.

So, here's my latest pondering about Ms. Arias -- and I don't know everything that creates these psychological abnormalities in a person, so I would love to hear from the experts out there -- could it be that Jodi was fairly normal and able to function pretty well most of her life, perhaps with some latent issues that were well controlled until she started experiencing several stressors all at once?

In other words, it wasn't just that Jodi went psycho on Travis because she's disordered and this is the way her personality is arranged. Maybe it was a combination of all these stressors and chaos ...no place to call home, no job stability or financial security, the ending of an important relationship to her and frustration/shame of being rejected, separation from her new church identity and peers. Everything in her life was in upheaval at that time .. and I mean everything. Don't get me wrong, that is no one's doing but her own, and I'm not expressing any sympathy here -- just observing that everything that had any meaning to her she screwed up and lost. And she probably blamed Travis for all of it.

In that light, maybe she wasn't a psychopath or pervasively disordered as we have all assumed all along. Maybe it was the totality of everything, and because of these latent issues that she had been able to control before then, she just lost any ability to cope and took her rage and frustration out on Travis because she blamed him for all of her losses. When I think about it like this, it starts to make a little more sense why she would do something so self destructive that would almost certainly end badly for her -- she didn't really care because she thought her life was a big nothing anyway. It wouldn't surprise me if she had contemplated killing herself as well. While she went through the motions of disguising her actions and covering her tracks, she did not put a whole lot of intelligent thought into it IMO because she didn't really care that much what happened to her; that was not nearly as important as relieving herself of the source of her pain, as she perceived it.

Agree--- actually someone posted something very similar last night! Great post and thank you
 
I haven't posted on WS in ages but I have read every thread about this case as well as a few others.

Regarding the pillow and/or the tassles, fringe. Is it possible she may have used the pillow to try to suffocate Travis at some point during the murder? Just a thought I had.

This case in particular shakes me up. I was on the receiving end of this type of person but I had an unusual end to my experience that according to what all of you experienced posters are saying is quite curious.

Thanks for the great discussion everyone.
 
just wondering...if you use a pillow to muffle the sound of the gunshot, will there be evidence around the wound ie: fibers or foam>

Apparently not from the distance she shot him. Iirc more than two feet away.
 
It's more improper circumstantiality rather than the type of disjointed speech characterized in those links, IMO.

In fact, circumstantiality is a negative symptom in psychopathy. This is the basis for some aspects of childhood tests for psychopathy potential.
 
BBM: I respectfully disagree. I feel her fear of abandonment (TA telling her it is over, going on vaca to Cancun with someone else; TA not responding to her last ditch effort) that set her into the rage. BPD. MOO.


Respectfully I disagree. I don't think she had a "fear" of being "abandoned" by TA. JMO but I think she was ticked off that she couldn't possess him anymore. It was much more about control and obsessiveness for her than it was being left or hurt (which IMO require more emotional capability on her part, which I think she lacks).

Impulsivity and extremes are central with BPD and again IMO all I've ever seen from JA is a very flat affect. While the murder was extremely rageful and violent, if one believes it was premeditated (which I do) it takes away that impulsive nature which is key to borderline. I find her to be void of any emotion and highly manipulative which doesn't seem consistent with BPD but this is all JMO!
 
Blunted affect and improper emotional responses aren't exclusive to ASPD. In fact, the weird emotional responses and weird persecution motif she has going on (the "threats" in jail, the "ninja assassins", the fear and paranoia that TA was hurting her) points to something else...

The mannerisms. The almost whispering thing she always has going on. The long, lengthy explanations. The improper emotional responses. The saccadic eye movements you see in that interview are telling.

:twocents:

Schizophrenia? Asperger's? Dissociation?
 
Agreed, but we definitely don't have enough information to rule it in either. I'm just wondering if there is some sort of sub-class of psychopath-like adults who become that way because of a confluence of stressors -- maybe it shakes loose some low-lying pathology lol

i have a question if you don't mind another :) how can jodi get murder 2 or manslaughter if she is only charger w/ first degree murder and felony muder???
 
It's more improper circumstantiality rather than the type of disjointed speech characterized in those links, IMO.

In fact, circumstantiality is a negative symptom in psychopathy. This is the basis for some aspects of childhood tests for psychopathy potential.

Why am I quoted there? lol
 
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