Trial break: The State vs Jodi Arias; trial resumes 4 February 2013

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Where are you finding these calls listed?

During the Verizon (I think that is the carrier) guy's testimony I took notes of the times, dates and length of calls. The link for the testimony is in the media thread and I know that someone else (not sure who, sorry) also made note of the calls that was also put in the media thread.

Adding links to posts in the media thread:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - *graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**
 
This may have been answered already (not sure bc I'm only 1/2 way through today's thread) but there are a ton of apps out there to download on your cell phone. Texas doesn't require disclosure as long as the one recording is participating. The other person has no clue the conversation is recording. Scary thought, right!?!

arizona is a 1 party state for recording phone calls - but california is a 2 party state - both participants have to agree - but because this is interstate - and it is being brought by the defense - we still don't know what the ruling will be - but i am trying to remember back in 2007 and 2008 did cell phones have unlimited long distance and roaming yet? because i noticed TA had kept his 951 area code on his cell phone - which is riverside california, so i can't remember if they were offering free roaming and long distance then or did he just have huge bills?
 
It sure is.

Way off topic....I remember back before *69 and caller ID ...random obscene phone calls occurred often....haven't received one since;). I almost miss it. Lol just kidding! They were usually some dopey high school kids thinking they were cool...or sexy or something.

I miss the good ole days of having a land line!!
 

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All prisoners go thru about a 2 week evaluative intake process once sentenced to state prison. (Federal, too.) They do a bunch of psych testing, medical testing, vocational eval, etc. All those results are considered with their crimes, sentence, and risk factors, to determine where they are placed and what level of security they have.

And if they refuse to cooperate with the eval process, that is considered, too.
 
Well if these two calls lasted just shy of one hour and were placed to Jodi....I think it is safe to say they were not break-up calls.

Apparently there were a massive amount of calls between the 2..
JA had another mentor at the business but could alot of the calls to TA be about work?
JA certainly shows she is a 'chatty cathy' and TA seemed so nice and most likely didn't want to hurt her feelings.. have no doubts JA behavior presented that she did threaten her own life in attempt to keep TA no?
 
Volene sounds delusional IMO if she thinks she's going to sell that to anyone!

Saving my best liquor for Volene's special day in court. I hope she shows presentations of more fairy tales. I figure Cinderella must be another one of the abused.
 
We simply don't know anything definitively about her childhood or teen years. I'll bet it is there.

I find it troubling that she is only supported by her mother in court. I'd love to know who all visited her in prison. I see no long term connections with people.

Some psychopathic children learn very early and very fast to manipulate to get what they want. They do damage covertly and are often believed because of their charm.

Speaking of long term connections, that just reminded me that in OS, defense said Jodi jumped in the car with her 2 girlfriends and drove to the convention in Vegas where she met Travis. Who are these girls and where are they for character witnesses now???? If I was a juror I'd be wondering where her best friend is or why she really has no one to go to bat for her!!
 
Just so you know - the ailments that we're {potentially} diagnosing JA with - the Cluster B's (Narcissistic/Borderline/Histrionic(no way!)/Antisocial) are basically incurable - especially if you've reached the point of murdering people. IMO, once these people have tasted blood there is no going back.

They are totally responsible for their behavior according to the law and moo.

I'm dealing with one in my personal life (not a murderer YET) and it's a friggin' nightmare.

If you wouldn't mind, I would love to hear your story.
 
Blunted affect and improper emotional responses aren't exclusive to ASPD. In fact, the weird emotional responses and weird persecution motif she has going on (the "threats" in jail, the "ninja assassins", the fear and paranoia that TA was hurting her) points to something else...

The mannerisms. The almost whispering thing she always has going on. The long, lengthy explanations. The improper emotional responses. The saccadic eye movements you see in that interview are telling.

:twocents:

I had not noticed the saccades, but I went back & re-viewed it, m00c0w, and they were there. Creepy, huh?! I normally do not even look at her face that closely since I am so tired of seeing that sweet little lying face...
 
As I've asserted before, there's a mental illness in particular that tends to stay dormant in some individuals up until enough of a stressor kicks in. We have some here who have experience with this disorder, and even attested to this.

I had completely not considered it before today because I had never seen her in an interview like the 48 Hours one that was linked. All I had to go on was what was reported in the media and on here and could be seen in the trial.

The biggest thing everyone can agree on is a blunted emotional affect. She seems pretty unemotional most of the time. Her speech is usually unemphatic, and her tone never really changes. She also whispers or talks in a low tone a lot of the time; at least in the interviews I've seen.

When she's asked a question, she goes into long explanations. She doesn't really leave out emotional details, as someone suspected of sociopathy might. Instead, she goes into way too much detail. She diverts onto irrelevant points and finally comes back around to the original question and answers it. This is referred to as a thought disorder - circumstantial speech.

There are indicators of improper emotional responses. She was seen "smiling, almost laughing at [Travis's] memorial service". She laughed at points in the 48 hours interview. She would lay her head down in the middle of police interviews. She would stretch and conduct herself bizarrely. She draws in the middle of her court case. She sometimes puts her head down on the table there, too.

There is definitely a history of persecutory beliefs and there is evidence of delusion. Arias went so far as to spy on Travis and allegedly hacked into his Facebook and e-mails because she was afraid he was going to hurt her (emotionally, with a new girl). She had to check up on him. She would listen to his voicemail and read his text messages. As far as delusions go, she snuck into his house multiple times. She obsessed over him. She called him how many times in that subpoenaed period, while he called her twice? She has come up with different stories about threats against her life and being afraid for her family. She retold a story about "ninja assassins". She told a story about receiving a letter in prison saying someone was going to kill her.

There also appeared to be a mild avolition occurring. She bounced from job to job, didn't meet financial obligations, really didn't show any desire to succeed. She was apparently doing poorly enough at PPL that she had Gus helping her.

There was also a study recently done on eye movement. Individuals that are affected by this disorder tend to make erratic motions with their eyes. They can't gaze at the same place for too long, they aren't capable of what's called "smooth pursuit", which is having the eye smoothly follow an object. They have what pretty much amounts to improper saccadic eye movement. If you watch the 48 Hours Interview, a lot of the times her eyes are darting around and not really focusing on anything in particular. It's very clear in the video nurse posted - look at the interviewer as your "control" subject. This is what caught my attention at first. Granted, this is far from scientific and not in a controlled setting necessary to perform such a test but it's there in this capacity.

These are all pretty straightforward and classic symptoms of schizophrenia. In fact, schizophrenics tend to vastly overkill their victims. If you take a look at some of the stabbings carried out by known schizophrenics, there are quite a few eerie similarities to this murder.

Perhaps she's faking it all and was hoping to get a mental insanity ruling. It's a possibility. But from what I've seen so far, it all fits.

:twocents: :moo:

Wow. This was very convincing.
I had to look up the word avolition.

Thanks!
 
MooCow:

I believe they did a MMPI test which would have shown an Axis I (Schizophrenia) diagnosis and from what I gather, there was no mental illness found to prove she was insane or incompetent to stand trial.

Do we know anymore about the tests given to JA to determine sanity pre-trial?

I'm sure her attorney's would have loved to have found the avenue of "murder by reason of insanity" to get JA off the DP.

imo - mmpi testing is completely worthless.
 
Wow, half of us seem to be sick. Has somebody been coughing on us?

I confess. I'm the Typhoid Mary. My whole family is sick with flu. I'm finally on the mend after a week of ridiculous fevers and other symptoms.

I have sneezed on my keyboard more than a few times, so I'd advise you all to wash your hands after posting. Can't be too careful with those viruses. Especially on computers.

You've all been exposed. Sorry. (Passes Kleenex and NyQuil martinis.)
 
Trying to understand BPD more fully. Hollow, but a Chameleon...would you connect a strong tendency toward denial to BPD as in always acting cheerful when they're not? Or that things aren't as bad as they seem even when things are all messed up with them?

Chameleon is that they take on the personality of whatever group they are with.

If it is Hell's Angels, they are a Hell's Angel. If they are with fundamental Christians, they are a Fundamental Christian. No sense of self.
 
Persecutory thoughts are when the patient feels like someone is after THEM, not they are stalking someone else.

What is the evidence of delusion?

She can't have blunted emotional affect when you just described her as laughing inappropriately at Travis' funeral.

Circumstantial speech is not Jodi's poor lying abilities. Circumstantial speech occurs in patients with lower IQs and cognitive problems. Jodi doesn't have this.

The first symptom of avolition in a schizophrenic patient is poor hygiene and lack of interest in their appearance. Jodi didn't have any symptoms of schizophrenia. She had no real career goals except to marry a rich husband and work as an artist.

Please start posting some links.

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

Very good points!
I'm still leaning towards NPD/BPD, but can easily be swayed...
It gets way more confusing if you start doing the comorbidity thing...
 
As I've asserted before, there's a mental illness in particular that tends to stay dormant in some individuals up until enough of a stressor kicks in. We have some here who have experience with this disorder, and even attested to this.

I had completely not considered it before today because I had never seen her in an interview like the 48 Hours one that was linked. All I had to go on was what was reported in the media and on here and could be seen in the trial.

The biggest thing everyone can agree on is a blunted emotional affect. She seems pretty unemotional most of the time. Her speech is usually unemphatic, and her tone never really changes. She also whispers or talks in a low tone a lot of the time; at least in the interviews I've seen.

When she's asked a question, she goes into long explanations. She doesn't really leave out emotional details, as someone suspected of sociopathy might. Instead, she goes into way too much detail. She diverts onto irrelevant points and finally comes back around to the original question and answers it. This is referred to as a thought disorder - circumstantial speech.

There are indicators of improper emotional responses. She was seen "smiling, almost laughing at [Travis's] memorial service". She laughed at points in the 48 hours interview. She would lay her head down in the middle of police interviews. She would stretch and conduct herself bizarrely. She draws in the middle of her court case. She sometimes puts her head down on the table there, too.

There is definitely a history of persecutory beliefs and there is evidence of delusion. Arias went so far as to spy on Travis and allegedly hacked into his Facebook and e-mails because she was afraid he was going to hurt her (emotionally, with a new girl). She had to check up on him. She would listen to his voicemail and read his text messages. As far as delusions go, she snuck into his house multiple times. She obsessed over him. She called him how many times in that subpoenaed period, while he called her twice? She has come up with different stories about threats against her life and being afraid for her family. She retold a story about "ninja assassins". She told a story about receiving a letter in prison saying someone was going to kill her.

There also appeared to be a mild avolition occurring. She bounced from job to job, didn't meet financial obligations, really didn't show any desire to succeed. She was apparently doing poorly enough at PPL that she had Gus helping her.

There was also a study recently done on eye movement. Individuals that are affected by this disorder tend to make erratic motions with their eyes. They can't gaze at the same place for too long, they aren't capable of what's called "smooth pursuit", which is having the eye smoothly follow an object. They have what pretty much amounts to improper saccadic eye movement. If you watch the 48 Hours Interview, a lot of the times her eyes are darting around and not really focusing on anything in particular. It's very clear in the video nurse posted - look at the interviewer as your "control" subject. This is what caught my attention at first. Granted, this is far from scientific and not in a controlled setting necessary to perform such a test but it's there in this capacity.

These are all pretty straightforward and classic symptoms of schizophrenia. In fact, schizophrenics tend to vastly overkill their victims. If you take a look at some of the stabbings carried out by known schizophrenics, there are quite a few eerie similarities to this murder.

Perhaps she's faking it all and was hoping to get a mental insanity ruling. It's a possibility. But from what I've seen so far, it all fits.

:twocents: :moo:

schitzophrenia?? does she really fit that diagnosis? these are the symptons i ave read and seen about it
A person diagnosed with schizophrenia may experience hallucinations (most reported are hearing voices), delusions (often bizarre or persecutory in nature), and disorganized thinking and speech. The latter may range from loss of train of thought, to sentences only loosely connected in meaning, to incoherence known as word salad in severe cases. Social withdrawal, sloppiness of dress and hygiene, and loss of motivation and judgment are all common in schizophrenia.[6] There is often an observable pattern of emotional difficulty, for example lack of responsiveness.[7] Impairment in social cognition is associated with schizophrenia,[8] as are symptoms of paranoia; social isolation commonly occurs.[9] Difficulties in working and long-term memory, attention, executive functioning, and speed of processing also commonly occur.[2] In one uncommon subtype, the person may be largely mute, remain motionless in bizarre postures, or exhibit purposeless agitation, all signs of catatonia.[

would sociopath be a closer fit - she seems to be able to make herself fit in most social occassions, every one said her appearance was impecable and thins pretty fact on her feet - and these are just a few examples - and premedidated the crime, rather than having a "break" - imo - i am curious why you puld think schizophrenia?
 
I confess. I'm the Typhoid Mary. My whole family is sick with flu. I'm finally on the mend after a week of ridiculous fevers and other symptoms.

I have sneezed on my keyboard more than a few times, so I'd advise you all to wash your hands after posting. Can't be too careful with those viruses. Especially on computers.

You've all been exposed. Sorry. (Passes Kleenex and NyQuil martinis.)
Ugh. I'm finally getting over this crazy sinus infection I had. I hope everyone starts to feel better soon.
 
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