Trial break: The State vs Jodi Arias; trial resumes 4 February 2013

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who the hell decides to do a little bondage and cuts the tassels off a decorative pillow to use?? that's so stupid! it's not logical at all.

i do believe she used that pillow for something. don't know what though. and maybe she DID use it to muffle the sound of the gun, and it's just that nobody can say for sure that there's a pillow missing. maybe there was one like it at the scene but they can't say for sure there were ever 2? it was his room, after all.

If she used the pillow to muffle the sound, it could be as a poster way back suggested - that she may have tested the gun in the desert on her way to TA's house. In an open setting the gun shot would be magnified and she realized just how loud the gun was.
 
it is not that her art is bad per se... just that it is not Picasso iykwim
 
yeah... and if he tied her up with soft rope where is the rest of the rope.. eh jodi?

she blew that tassel off the pillow when she shot the gun thru it imhoo
 
The memorial video is so sad. A young man lost his life because someone could not "have" him as her possession. That was his mistake.....he didn't try to hurt or kill her. MOO
 
yeah... and if he tied her up with soft rope where is the rest of the rope.. eh jodi?

she blew that tassel off the pillow when she shot the gun thru it imhoo

That is a laughable defense position, IMO, that the 'ropes' were used in some sex scenario. I agree with you nurse, she just missed a couple scraps of the pillow edging when she was cleaning up.

Just wondering, does a pillow actually muffle the sound of a gunshot, or is that a hollywood thing?
 
:bananalama: ok sorry

Why am i the only one thinking that her art is good...clearly i cant draw a house...i failed art in primary school(YES ) so maybe my judgement is is not good

I, too, believe she is quite talented. I dislike the artist and believe her to be a monster, but clearly she has a great deal of talent.
 
I believe if a pillow was used as a muffle there would be evidence of it due to the filling inside.
 
I have been thinking about the phone sex tape today. I can't, for the life of me, see how the DT can get this admitted into evidence unless JA gets on that witness stand.

I certainly don't think this would be a wise decision.....but the DT seems to have nothing else :D And let's please pray that JA does get up there....I so want to see JM work his magic. :great:

:newhere: and of course :moo:
 
Until I read TA blog entries about his upbringing, and his mother It puzzled me why he could not make a clean break from JA sooner when this was clearly an unhealthy relationship.

In some ways, he is lucky he survived his childhood. (along with his siblings) Mom's (women) scary things they are. They cause pain, emotional and physical. He could not fix his mom.

He somehow was touched by someone that seems to have given him the ability to look at that bad situation from the outside looking in and he did feel his life was worthwhile. My guess as to why he did not fully break from JA when the red flags were basically glued to the entire outside of his house, screaming "Get away, get the place on lock down, cut all ties" is that she gave him attention, positive and negative. She was this scary person he may have been intrigued about in some subconscious way. Maybe he thought he could love her and fix her.

Sadly near the end, and too late as the hour glass sand ran out on this one, he seemed to have found the "type" of person that he should carve out a life with. It was just too late. It cost him his life. As someone mentioned in a post and my theory is, although yes, they had this encounter, photo taking, showers and whatever else took place, my gut tells me in the course of the last hours he said something that would send the clear signal he moved on and she should also (as she had someone else) so did he.

That's just not what she wanted to hear. I think she wanted him to just get with the JA program where he marries her and they live there. She may have even lured him into a sense of security talking about her new "beau" and she was happy for him about someone in his life. Men take note, when women go down that path in a conversation, don't take the bait. I just feel convinced he said something "glowing" about someone, or the type of person, and it was not her clearly. And the blood pressure started to rise. Go take a shower honey...There was a trigger, a word a sentence, that pushed this over the steep ledge it was already on.

I think she came prepared (not quite like a girl scout) but the conversations leading up to that fateful day in turn, set the chain of events (gun, burglary, gas cans) these things crossed her mind. I doubt she intended to leave that house with the two of them continuing down, two separate paths.
 
guys.. didn't minor4th transcribe the opening statement? I cannot find it!
 
I wanted to follow up on some discussion about Cluster B disorders-- personality disorders. The DSM (Diagnostic and Statistic Manual) is the "bible" for diagnosing psych/ mental health conditions and disorders. Broadly speaking, psych/ mental health disorders are broken down into Axis I and Axis II disorders. This is relevant to our discussions here in that typically only Axis I disorders are recognized by the criminal justice system as being a factor in "mental insanity" pleas. Axis I disorders are things like major schizophrenia, major depressive disorder, etc. versus personality disorders of Axis II, such as histrionic, narcissistic, borderline, etc. To attempt to simplify further, for many Axis I disorders, there are medications which may "restore" to person to a condition of sanity, if they are found unfit to stand trial due to mental defect/ disease. Zinah Jennings (mother of missing toddler Amir Jennings), and Levi Aron, who butchered the Jewish child Leiby Kletzky, have both been found to be suffering from serious Axis I disorders, and ordered to take medication, as well as being incarcerated in a psych facility.

In contrast, Axis II disorders are typically not something someone can take medication for and "get well". Axis II disorders in the old version of the DSM also included mental retardation (the previous MEDICAL definition-- don't throw tomatoes at me for this term in this context). However, the courts HAVE viewed diminished cognitive capacity (ie, mental retardation) as a factor in criminal liablity-- differently under different circumstances. (Attorneys can elaborate further here.) I can't recall if mental retardation was reclassified to an Axis I in the new DSM-V, but it's not relevant to Jodi Arias, so I'll move on.

The bottom line is that almost everyone in prison has some kind of personality "disorder" that contributed to them committing crimes. Many are compulsive liars, many are antisocial, many are histrionic and narcissistic. The criminal justice system typically views these conditions as perhaps an explanation, but not a legal justification for their crimes.Same as being high on drugs when committing a crime-- the drug use is seen as a voluntary behavior that explains what happened, not a justification that would render them immune or legally not guilty, or not eligible to receive charges and stand trial.

Personality disorders are widely felt among the mental health community as not "curable" in the traditional sense of what we perceive as a cure. At best, we can "train" individuals with personality disorders thru talk therapy to behave in a more socially acceptable way, but there is no magic pill we can give them to change their thinking. (Like we can with someone who is hallucinating.)

I'm not a psych/ mental health expert, but as a health professional, I do know my way around the DSM a little bit. I hope this helps to explain why Cluster B, or Axis II disorders (personality disorders) are not really relevant to the guilt phase of trial, but might be relevant as mitigating factors in the penalty phase of a trial. Cluster B/ Axis II disorders almost never qualify a defendant for "not guilty by reason of insanity".
 
Good morning and Happy Saturday to you all!

I was speed reading and missed a bit. Can someone catch me up regarding the duct tape?
 
who the hell decides to do a little bondage and cuts the tassels off a decorative pillow to use?? that's so stupid! it's not logical at all.

i do believe she used that pillow for something. don't know what though. and maybe she DID use it to muffle the sound of the gun, and it's just that nobody can say for sure that there's a pillow missing. maybe there was one like it at the scene but they can't say for sure there were ever 2? it was his room, after all.

If she used the pillow to muffle the gunshot, she might have taken it with her.
 
I have been thinking about the phone sex tape today. I can't, for the life of me, see how the DT can get this admitted into evidence unless JA gets on that witness stand.

I certainly don't think this would be a wise decision.....but the DT seems to have nothing else :D And let's please pray that JA does get up there....I so want to see JM work his magic. :great:

:newhere: and of course :moo:

I don't either... because she was recording him (I thought that wasn't admissible) and we don't know if he consented to her recording him because he is dead.

idk..

I need to put that question in the legal thread!
:escape:

welcome to websleuths!!!!!!
 
I have been thinking about the phone sex tape today. I can't, for the life of me, see how the DT can get this admitted into evidence unless JA gets on that witness stand.

I certainly don't think this would be a wise decision.....but the DT seems to have nothing else :D And let's please pray that JA does get up there....I so want to see JM work his magic. :great:

:newhere: and of course :moo:

I don't understand how it can be played at all since it was illegal to tape it!!
Didn't we go through this with the FL trial and one of the investigators ?
 
Here is Jodi Arias. She describes her childhood as "ideal," yet drops out of high school, tells a story of her father knocking her into a wall, returns in need not to her mother but to her grandparents' house, and yet has a mother willing to hide evidence, sell Travis-trashing untruths to the National Enquirer, and to meet her in the middle of the night to help her flee justice.

Here is Jodi Arias into adulthood. She's a waitress. She is a waitress latching onto a much older man, with a child, who is her supervisor. Unfortunately for her, he is a man of enough integrity to not sleep with her while he is her supervisor. He demotes himself to waiter to have a relationship with her. She does not object that surely this is not in his best interest. She does nothing to improve herself in the meanwhile. No GED. No working towards any goal, except perhaps holding onto this man who is a ticket…. well, to someplace she does not have to earn herself.

Jodi is not Casey Anthony. She actually works two jobs, both menial, to help pay a mortgage. She is tolerant at least of this man's son, and how central he is to her lover- probably, she thinks, he loves his osn more than her. She sleeps with this man for four long years, but no matter what kind of sex and service she offers up, . he does not want to marry her. She's going nowhere.

Here is Travis Alexander. He describes his childhood as anything but ideal. It is in fact a torture of extreme child neglect,. of starvation on every level, and of watching drug-addicted parents die. Travis's grandparents rescue him, but from then on it is Travis who unceasingly strives against all odds to make a meaningful and worthy life for himself, and who continues to do so up until to day he is murdered.

By his mid-20's, when Jodi the waitress is shacking up with a man decades older and is seemingly friendless, Travis the inspirational speaker has bought an upscale home of his own, has a large circle of extremely close friends and a legion of admirers. He is universally seen as an inspiration, a very generous man, a great friend, funny and warm, and a very moral and observant Mormon.

Tragically for Travis, Jodi enters his orbit because she is looking for a way out. Again a man is Jodi's instant oatmeal choice, her path to something better that she does not have to actually accomplish anything to travel.


Travis, despite being a red-blooded young man, has honored his church and faith and kept his virginity. Shortly after meeting Jodi Arias, who is at least 4 years removed from virginity, he has lost it. Who to this point has demonstrated the most restraint and moral character?


If Jodi is paying attention at all, she knows from the first conversations she has with Travis and his church circle that Travis will never marry her. His religion is hugely important to him, and marrying a non-virgin is not an option. She is not a virgin. Isn't that simple? Not to Jodi. Even after waiting 4 years for a marriage offer that never came from one man, she chooses a man who is even less likely to ever offer her marriage. Either Jodi is deluding herself, or she is setting herself up for the failure that is to follow.

As she did for 4 years with another man, she plies Travis with sex, but he never expresses any desire to marry her, never promises her that he will. From hacking into his emails and whatnot, she knows that he is not only seeing other women, he is asking at least one other, Lisa, to marry him.

How enraging it must have been for Jodi to see the trap she had created for herself. Sex was the only thing she had to offer Travis that the other women he cared for would not give him, but giving him sex was precisely the reason why he would never marry her or, or even, after a short enough time, even feel safe in her company.

I think Travis felt worse about having sex with Jodi than Jodi was ever capable of feeling about the sex she was using to keep Travis from exiting her life altogether.

IMO, Jodi went to Mesa with every intent to kill Travis, but also with a wild desperation to convince him to be hers again-- both playing in her head at the same time. I don’t think he knew she was coming. I think she let herself in, hacked his computer, then got into his bed naked.

I think the sex they had that day was likely filled with contempt on his part, and seriously wild and odd on hers. I think she brought photos of their travels together to say to him-- travel is OURS, it is what we have shared.. not you and HER, and before his shower Travis made it plain-- you are not going. She is. I have tried to tell you in every way I know that our relationship is over.

Travis went to the shower. Jodi got dressed and put the gun and knife in her pocket. I think she had both weapons because she did not want to simply kill him, but to make him suffer. For that reason, I don’t think it matters whether she shot him first or last. If she shot him first, it was to slow him enough so that she could vent her rage , so that she could stab and slash him full fury without him being able to fight back.

If she shot him last it was because her rage was still not spent after 29 stabs and slitting his throat. The scenarios are equally barbaric, IMO, and both worthy of calling for the death penalty.

Lastly. I think she left the camera in the wash because she thought taking it might implicate her.. Who else would leave that much blood and steal just a camera?

And BTW, Jodi a talented photographer or artist? What cr--p. Her sketches and photos are middling at best.. sometimes adequate on technique, but never original in the least. Jodi doesn't have enough inner self to genuinely create anything--not a painting, not a photo, and certainly not a life.
 
I don't understand how it can be played at all since it was illegal to tape it!!
Didn't we go through this with the FL trial and one of the investigators ?
For this case, JA recorded the call in California (2-party consent) with Travis in Arizona (1-party consent).
JA has violated California law. By doing so, she is subject to criminal prosecution, and a civil lawsuit for damages to the victim.
 
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