trial day 48: REBUTTAL #146

[josie1986]

no PTSD

ha ha ha

wonder if the DT have realized how badly this is going for them yet

 

[lil_buddy]

I will say this, though: Borderline's usually become that way due to abuse or neglect.

i thought it was 50/50.

"In a previous study, Trull and research colleagues examined data from 5,496 twins in the Netherlands, Belgium and Australia to assess the extent of genetic influence on the manifestation of BPD features. The research team found that 42 percent of variation in BPD features was attributable to genetic influences and 58 percent was attributable to environmental influences, and this was consistent across the three countries. "

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081216114100.htm

 

[AstroKitty]

Does it have to be real or imagined abuse or neglect ??

Real. Typically abandonment in early years. But then again that's one of those things where any psychologist will debate "nature or nurture".

 

[sewsroses]

OK, what is adjustment disorder?

 

[luvtenniss]

Meee-mries...like the corners of my mind. Ja has all the memories!

 

[Schuby]

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
...they're being schooled.....

good one.

 

[Mormon Attorney]

Surely the defense was aware of DeMarte's report.

That's probably why all their witnesses highlighted OVER and OVER their many YEARS of experience. They couldn't have guessed how well this doctor would present. Love her testimony! It just makes sense.

 

[Linda From New York]

So is what you are saying M'aam is that Arias is LYING that she remembers NOTHING?

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[atm9533]

I wish one of our court watchers could let us know if the jury is listening as intently as we are.

They have to be thinking 'Thank God' like we are. Very fact based testimony with logical examples and evidence.

Brave. This is one lady who will be in high demand.

K

Some just did a couple of pages back and said the Jury was taking notes, but more telling they said there are no witness questions.

 

[Lorelilly]

I wish one of our court watchers could let us know if the jury is listening as intently as we are.

They have to be thinking 'Thank God' like we are. Very fact based testimony with logical examples and evidence.

Brave. This is one lady who will be in high demand.

K

YES and LOOKING at the Witness? Shout out to someone in the Courtroom

 

[Nali87]

LOL. Jodi should've been shaking harder to meet the "startled" criteria.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

It grabbed my attention too. A psychopath's relationship cycle is quite literally 'Idealize. Devalue. Discard.'. I'd never heard it in relationship to BPD.
Fascinating, really.

Like with DB?

 

[Ransom]

Who's Dr Carp?

Dr. Cheryl Karp. She was hired by the defense team along with Dr. Samuels. She got sick and had to leave the case.

 

[The Village Idiot]

I was flabbergasted last night to see one of JAs "objects de art," the face of a woman with a tear running down her cheek. JA isn't just a killer, she's a FRAUD and an art THIEF: my stepmother is Margaret Keane and JA stole that composition right off of Margaret's canvas.
Geezus. I didn't think I could despise JA more than I already do and then that happened. However, BRAVO to eBay for refusing to post her amateurish high school "art."

I'm new here; thanx for letting me get that out.

:welcome5::Banane21:

 

[MagicRose99]

Them poor dogs... used as examples for everything!

 

[wenwe4]

#643 - inappropriate intense anger . . . what does it say? read out loud 2nd paragraph

However you already know the secret . . . you can . . . at any time . . . my anger I've kiked doors, smashed things, broken things,it hurts people and hurts me . . attracts lower

chose the right and see everything thru a filter of love . .. I will never stop striving to be Christlike.


written by the defendant . . . 2/14/07 16:58 - 4:58pm . . .
story involving defendant she discussed receiving candy and underwear on this same day . . . yes she discussed receiving underwear . . .

included in one of these symptoms in borderline pd . .

a gift is a positive thing but we are seeing negative things here . . .

intense and interpersonal relationships
I would say I can't make that relation without more information

Dr.Samuels said PTSD and you disagree
I did (I do)

who does the typing and revew of th report
I do
any errors
they are mine

exhibit #544 - his conclusion and diagnosis . . .clearly under criteria for PTSD . . . if an individual making that assessment fall short under C or d for PTSD

falls short according to this . . . it falls short in D and I have to review C but I think it falls short

why not a case of PTSD . . .

in terms of the DSM

4 primary categories . . .symptoms look for in PTSD . . .presence person experienced a strong traumatic event - horror, fear. . .
2nd category - re-experiences symptoms
3rd - avoidance (avoid truma)

4th is increased arousal . . . - a change of arousal . . newly ability to become angry - becoming hypersensitive . . have an excited response with a jolt.

a is presence of traumatic event cause strong sense of horror/fear
Dr. Sam said she got PTSD result from the killing way she descreibes it she felt fear . . .she met criteria for A.

what if 2 intruders came in . . .
if that is what he based his diagnosis on that would be inaccurate

what if it is an event that didn't occur - wouldn't that automatically do away with PTSSD.

yes- all questions specific to that event that caused the trauma . .. .

trauma if none then doesn't that make PTSD

can it be based on a made up event?
It cannot be based on a made up event!!!


ALV says JA got PTSD from abuse from TA . . .
no physical abuse . . . if those events did not occur . . .
similar to before if the event isn't true then the PTSD would not apply

I would agree it would meet criteria for A if the murder triggered trauma

re=experiencing event - criteria B

5 symptoms listed and one or more must be met (1 of 5 must be met)

first symptom - re-experiencing - symptm B -
have to reference back know category as a whole but want to be sure . .. first - recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections.

symptom - thoughts about the trauma keeps invading their mind bothers them . . . think about it a lot.
she thought about it but not @ level we see with PTSD.

not uncommon to think about it but so traumatized by event it causes disruption in everyday . . .

in her journals or interviews indicate distress recollections? no

2nd recurrent distressing dreams of the event -
having nightmares and dreams about what happened - frequently recurrent

she said sh wsa having some dreams but not recurrent
dreams of the event discussed?
no

acting or feeling if the traumatic event were re-occurring - reliving it - you can see with PTSD they re-enact the episode - reliving it.

killing TA is triggering event

carry out the killing cause her distress?
no

intense psychological distress @ exposure to cues - shortened version . . . when there is cues of the trauma . . anything related to tA - talking about him, symbols or signs related to him cause signs and symptoms of the distress . . . strong intense
not seen with JA.

discuss what happened between TA and JA yes. . she didn't have this strong intense distress she was exposing herself to that . . she writing journal about it - there are cues she s walking towards . . . .going to the funeal

psysiological reactivity to to cues of the traumatic event . . . visceral response . . beating heart, sweating, (throw up) . . physical response

a note to her Atty but other than that nothing else

section C - avoidance
how many symptoms to chose from 7, . . .3 or more

efforts to avoid thoughts, feelings and conversations associated with the trauma


similar to stuff highlighted before - she was writing about it quite a bit in her journals
objection
sustained

lets be more specific - wriing in her journals . .
she writing a lot about TA - saying good things
after the killing

efforts to avoid activity/places or people
associated with the trauma - these are all associatied with the trauma

does not meet this criteria . . . she went to his memorial service, wrote a letter to hs family . . . surrounding herself
how about sending 20 iris to his gma
that would be one

taling to mutual friends
does she meet that criteri - she was not putting effort to avoid the

inability to recall important aspect of the trauma

(*****dING DING DING)
when people are exposed to traumatic events they have acute recall but lose aspects of the traumatic event.
based her report alone . . . . Dr. D does not agree that she meets criteria but based upon JA's report only yes

when people experience traumatic event . . . not like what we ate for breakfast . . .times people become hypervigilent focus . .

don't believe JA because way she report the memory loss . . . not usual in what we see

she reported several hour gapin her memory
not how it typically works. . .traumatic events . . tend to lose small aspects of the incident . .. when there is a traumatic head injury or substance abuse issue ...

time too long of a gap one problem

traumatic memory -the more people talk they tend to gain more - that is what we do in treatment . . . that is not pattern JA displayed

she indicated to Dr. D she went to go and grab the knife . . .memory was absent until put knife in dishwasher or not . . ..until he hit Hoover dam

she told Dr. Samuels in his report that she remembers getting rid of the weapons . . . Dr. D saw her after Dr. Sam . . . . usually gain little bits more and more as you talk . . she should have a little more memory when seeing me not less

another aspect . . . what JA reported to Dr. D . . when reached Hoover dam . . .a little blood on her hand . . I knew this meant that I killed him . . .how do you know that if you have no memory? . . she said I knew I did . . . .that is impossible or illogical you would not think a little blood on my hand . . . not first thing I killed someone

markedly decreased interest . . . .stop engaging in the world . . stop doing things they enjoyed . .. JA spent time with friends she had wanted to attend school

noindication of ?anti-donia?/

humping on Ryan . . . Borderline personality DO . .. idealized or devalue people . . . JA just engaged in a killing and then go have a romantic encountered a flip occurred . . devaluing and idealizing . . . . she was at the point of devalue - despising


detatchment from others or estrangement - feeling like can't be around people . . estranged from them . . .

doesn't meet this criteria . . . related to go to social acts . . going to memorial, gonna go camping at one point . . .

restricted range of affect
a blunted level of affect . . . . may not have feelings of love during that time no kind of drastic emotions . . .

she talks about how much she loved TA after the killing -


sense of forshortened future
people with PTSD have difficult time seeing their future will be like . . so involved with their trauma - not talk about themselves out side trauma .. . things like dating

saw in her journal she talked about courting other men . . she had a job

so B & C are not met

this diagnosis of pTSD is not appropriate

lets talk about D - there are 5 must meet 2
increased arousal - difficulty falling or staying asleep -
when she got to jail . . . had trouble falling asleep in jail - not related to trauma just a change in environment

irritablility or anger . .
consistent highlighted before is much more personality . . . we would see this as increased after the trauma not as a pattern seen in her entire life

difficulty concentrating -
ability to maintain/sustain attention . . . she struggles with being clumsy . . . .after the trauma event this is not a new symptom - doesn't meet this criteria

hypervigilence - tendency of hyper aware . . . protective . . .make self look around make sure safe . . . .

saw videos of JA . . . it was not present in her

exaggerated startle response - tendency to get startled very easy - exaggerated jerk . . startle response.

did you see this with defendant . . . I was lucky to have video . . .times door slamming and noise - would have seen that kind of symptom

she does not have PTSD

Dr. Carp - PTSD consstent with abuse

familiar with adjustment d/o -
a change in behavior happened in change in environment
with Ms. ARias I did diagnose her ..
objection

Dr Samuels did not give her this diagnosis . . .

memory issues involved in this case . . . JA indicated she has a very large memory gap the night of the killing . . .

are you familiar with fight or flight regarding memory

a fear response occurs in fear situation fear stimulus - cause fear body protect self . . .our body sweats . . . . evolution if tiger bits on it will slide off easier - it becomes secondary (memory) because we are trying to protect self

@ times they act very different . . . brain doesn' act in the same way normally does . .. frontal lobe . . we plan . . .organize planful behavior not what a dog might do . . . no higher order behaviors seen . .

did you see any higher order behaviors in the fight or flight memory loss
Objection
Approach

 

[tlcya]

when asked if she agreed or disagreed with Dr. Samuels's diagnosis. Dr. DeMarte said "she does not have PTSD"

lol. Not I disagree. I believe she does not. but simple "she does not have PTSD"


love this witness.

 

[Linda7NJ]

All the clean up afterwards!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Linda From New York]

"I had a little blood on my hands...so that means I must have killed him"

Seriously. Arias is sooooooooo full of crap .

This thing is toast.:jail:

 

[rose222]

I'm like not even blinking. I'm in awe of this expert. So interesting and I'm not normally interested in psychology stuff!