trial day 50: REBUTTAL; #153

[EquallyDivided]

Did JD finish up yesterday? I saw the Juror questions, but watched out of sequence and didn't catch if they were done, or not.

 

[LucyVino]

Sounds like a good theory. Wish we knew what was the reason for the long rant from Travis.

I know I am dying to see that whole email!

 

[Chester_from_THM]

Could Travis have realized the ring was gone and that JA had stole it and could be a reason he sent the long, "mean" email. Possibly she agreed to return it to him which is why he let her in June 4th?

Gosh, Lucy, I haven't seen this theory before, but it makes so much sense. We have always wondered, why would he agree to see her again after being so angry with her just days before.

 

[cricket49]

I love the Christmas tree objection. :floorlaugh:

Even Jodi looked shocked... but sadly, it's true.

BBM

I heard that she slept under the tree when Travis told her there was no room for her to stay there.

Jodi was shocked because in her world she was NOT hiding behind the Christmas tree.........she was sleeping under it.

:floorlaugh:

 

[GoAskAllie]

The whole story was that Travis had about 30 guests with family visiting & staying over, and Jodi showed up unannounced. Travis told her she couldn't stay--there wasn't room. She then decided to SLEEP UNDER THE CHRISTMAS TREE. And this is BEFORE they started dating!

If there had been a "living" manger, Jodi would have been the wolf in sheep's clothing.

 

[LucyVino]

Gosh, Lucy, I haven't seen this theory before, but it makes so much sense. We have always wondered, why would he agree to see her again after being so angry with her just days before.

I don't recall much of anything ever being said about the ring before yesterday's testimony but I could see that if she did steal an enganement ring he bought for someone he must have really cared about in the past that would bring up a lot of emotion from TA.

 

[Angelina Frost]

Remember in the sex tape Jodi telling Travis's that there wouldn't be a Mormon women kinky and freaky for him, leaving the impression (and all that baby sickening voice ) that she was everything he would want.

Absolutely. The only tradeoff being a mate who slashes your tires twice in succession, repeatedly hacks your personal accounts, steals from you, totals your car, shows up to your home unannounced, hides in closets, sleeps in your bed without permission, records an orchestrated sexually graphic phone call without your knowledge, makes calculated attempts to bait you, purposefully lies to you, plus texts, emails and calls you 24/7 like a meth smoking chimpanzee.

All of that in exchange for freaky sex. Seems like a fair trade. She is arguably the most deluded person to ever walk the earth.

 

[Sleuth5]

Remember in the sex tape Jodi telling Travis's that there wouldn't be a Mormon women kinky and freaky for him, leaving the impression (and all that baby sickening voice ) that she was everything he would want.

I'm doing my absolute level best to remove that memory from my active memory process. That "sex tape" is just plain creeeeepy as far as I'm concerned. All I need to hear is her voice and it's "check, please!"

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Could Travis have realized the ring was gone and that JA had stole it and could be a reason he sent the long, "mean" email. Possibly she agreed to return it to him which is why he let her in June 4th?

:seeya: I think this is a very good possibility ...

Jodi is a "manipulative sneak" and I would NOT be surprised IF she stole the ring -- using it to "play games" with Travis ...

Oh, was the ring ever found ? Could she have "pawned" it ?

:moo:

 

[GoAskAllie]

And she was smiling iirc. I bet she imagines herself haunting the prison law library and becoming the go-to legal authority there.

You know it DebinGA!

 

[Sleuth5]

This (and other things) makes me really again wonder if most of this 'relationship' was all in JAs imagination.

I thought this was around the time they were supposedly (according to JA) 'official' (whatever that means).

I suspect TA never did consider JA his girlfriend at any point in their relationship. But I could be forgetting evidence that *he* thought she was his girlfriend. It certainly wasn't this particular Valentines, and I thought that was the timeframe JA claims they were 'official'.

Oh, you'll find you have a lot of company here with that theory. I have never believed there was any real "relationship" between them. TA was sexually attracted to her, she made herself available to him, but so far as we know he never even intimated that there was a serious relationship between the two of them. This was entirely Einstein's construction. I think she was considering weaving it her unified theory.

 

[Boodles]

IMO... I think the DT is just playing a role. I believe that they know the truth, but they are just doing their jobs.

I think they invented the abuse for the self defense theory and that Nurmi inserted the pedophilia claim (that's his specialty) they just forgot to make it the reason (ya right) that Travis attacked her because she would out him.

I believe JA lied to them and said she had to defend herself THAT day and gave them most of the details of the killing.

After hearing JW slip up about details during the fog, I strongly believe that they know all details during the fog and applied the fog, where needed, for her defense.

I also think that they play very dirty ( hence DT) and they use lies, added changed and non existent journal entries, and blatant deceitful claims to try and discredit the state and its witnesses.

They play as dirty as they can as long as they continue to get away with it.

Jmooc

What you described above is not "just doing their job" - it's totally unethical. Inventing false claims is not part of the defense attorney's "job."

But yeah, I know some of them do - certainly not all. It's too bad the law became all about which lawyer "wins" vs ensuring justice. JMO.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

BBM

I heard that she slept under the tree when Travis told her there was no room for her to stay there.

Jodi was shocked because in her world she was NOT hiding behind the Christmas tree.........she was sleeping under it.

:floorlaugh:

BBM: OMG ... and probably singing "Oh Holy Night" ...

:seeya:

 

[Paintr]

I'm doing my absolute level best to remove that memory from my active memory process. That "sex tape" is just plain creeeeepy as far as I'm concerned. All I need to hear is her voice and it's "check, please!"

Not to mention 'the' pictures of JA. Not enough brain bleach on the planet! :facepalm:

 

[hindsight2020]

Well, the only "animal" involved was JA. There's also a difference between being attacked by someone you know vs. two unknown, masked and armed intruders.

I doubt Travis was violent with her until she, herself, became lethally violent with HIM, so PTSD based on long-term abuse and an imminent attack upon her is out (IMO). Even THEN he may not have been violent; she had very little physical damage, after all. Once she stabbed him in the heart, I think HE was definitely in fight or flight mode and his only goal was to ESCAPE from her. SHE had the weapons, whereas he was naked, wet, and severely (mortally) wounded. Flight would be be uppermost in his mind, because he wasn't capable of fighting back much by that point (emphasis on POINT). SHE, OTOH, was intent on not letting him get away. If someone else found out she was there and severely injured him, she would be in BIG trouble, so she had to stop him at all costs. She was in planning mode, not fight or flight mode. She made LOTS of decisions based on the fear of getting CAUGHT, not on being injured, herself.

For the sake of argument, though, let's say he DID physically abuse her over the long term, culminating in an attack upon her. She still managed to get the upper hand, over and over and over. She survived, cleaned up herself and the scene to a certain extent, and calmly exited, etc. He was dead. He was no longer a physical threat to her in any way, and she would not have any reason to believe someone else close to her would body-slam her, choke her, etc. She would probably have no desire to strike up yet another romance any time soon. How could she trust that someone wouldn't try to kill/hurt her AGAIN? It takes time to get over something like that. The trust issue takes a long time, if EVER, to resolve. Her subsequent reactions/symptoms would be different from the intruder scenario, and the questions asked on the test would be different because they branched off based on circumstances of the triggering event.

Being suddenly ambushed by two masked intruders with guns and knives could very likely cause some sort of PTSD, especially since someone (ELSE) died as a result, while she miraculously survived. If that had really happened, she would probably have a hard time with strangers and being surprised by sudden noises, doors quickly opening, etc. She might even have been afraid to use the bathroom, barricading herself in some way so that she wouldn't be accosted while being vulnerable in such a normally "safe" place. Same with the perimeter of the home. A knock at the door or a phone ringing could be ANYONE about to kill you! How could she even go to work when, at any moment, the place could be robbed or a patron could go berserk? Certainly moving on to the next romantic conquest mere hours after the gruesome murder and her miraculous escape, and then grinding on him would be fraught with unknowns. She would have very little control over RB and HIS environment. Who knows how safe HIS place would be from intruders? For all she knew, someone was hiding in the closet while she was there. Someone could break down the door or climb in a window while she wasn't being vigilant! Then she drives all the way back home, alone, including stopping and filling up the car AND GAS CANS at an unattended gas station in the middle of the night in a strange city because she had to get back in time to go to work, having established an alibi, of sorts. (You know who else was fretting about about getting to work the next day, after her three children were shot, one fatally, by a "bushy-haired stranger"? Diane Downs.) So how JA answered questions based on THIS scenario would be different from how she answered if she was attacked by someone she knew intimately, and the questions, themselves, would be different.

Therefore, how she answered questions on the test WOULD have made a difference, because once she lied about how the incident occurred, subsequent questions were BASED UPON those lies, and she had to continue to make up symptoms based on what happened in the LIE. Things she would be afraid of, or things that would trigger her extreme fear would be different. The anwers were simply unreliable. Something bad happened. Something horrific. JA, however, did NOT have PTSD, at least not that would be diagnosable in the test she was given.

As much as I hate to quote Johnny Cochran, I have to say it: "Garbage in, garbage out".

I don't doubt that she was fearful when she realized Travis was harder to kill than she imagined it would be, and somewhat fearful of getting caught. THAT could be traumatic and there might be moments of panic that would make it hard to remember everything, but those would be isolated MOMENTS. Even so, she didn't look or act particularly traumatized in her mugshot because she was confident she could lie and/or charm her way out of ANY situation.

It probably WOULD be hard to remember every little detail of the murder in progress when so much extreme violence was occurring and all that blood was everywhere; some things would be blurred by all the action and excess adrenaline, but I don't believe she would have a total blackout for HOURS and NEVER remember any part of it except a knife clinking on the floor.

Ok, that was long and rambling, but it's my point of view and I needed to get that out.

I agree that there is a difference between being attacked by an intruder vs someone you know, I would think the end result of trauma/ptsd may still be the same, hence my concern regarding the bear/tiger juror question.

In JA case it is much different, as the attack was based on a lie, she was not attacked by ninjas or Travis, hence rendered the tests invalid. Hypothetically, had she actually been viciously attacked by Travis and subsequently made up the ninja story, it would still be traumatic because she actually would have experienced an attack hence the trauma of the event may cause PTSD. But what do I know, this Psychology stuff makes my head dizzy. MOO...Any psychologists in the house that can clarify this??

 

[Mykeru]

That "thinking with his little head"stuff never gets old.

Why is it that we don't routinely describe women in an on-of abusive or otherwise dysfunctional relationship as "thinking with her vagina" or something just as slighting?

Sorry, I might be touchy after listening to Willmott, LaViolette abd Arias posthumously blame Travis Alexander for everything including Rhett cat's hairballs, but it seems a dehumanizing way to think of men.




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Edited to add: Sometimes I shouldn't even try postng from my smart phone.

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[Kaddy Wonders]

Where had we heard that "she slept under the Christmas tree" story? I thought it was from one of the "invited" young women who stayed at his house, telling about his disavowing that JA was his gf. I guess it wasn't in court? So it was on an HLN interview? tia

 

[Sleuth5]

If there had been a "living" manger, Jodi would have been the wolf in sheep's clothing.

I had a slightly different animal in mind, but that works.

 

[Jane Jetson]

IMO... I think the DT is just playing a role. I believe that they know the truth, but they are just doing their jobs.

I think they invented the abuse for the self defense theory and that Nurmi inserted the pedophilia claim (that's his specialty) they just forgot to make it the reason (ya right) that Travis attacked her because she would out him.

I believe JA lied to them and said she had to defend herself THAT day and gave them most of the details of the killing.

After hearing JW slip up about details during the fog, I strongly believe that they know all details during the fog and applied the fog, where needed, for her defense.

I also think that they play very dirty ( hence DT) and they use lies, added changed and non existent journal entries, and blatant deceitful claims to try and discredit the state and its witnesses.

They play as dirty as they can as long as they continue to get away with it.

Jmooc

BBM

I was shocked, probably because I don't remember JW dealing with a prosecution witness before (I came late to the party!) at how shysty and underhanded she was in her cross. Luckily, Dr. D is sharp as a tack, and was not having any of it! :moo:

 

[DebinGA]

The whole story was that Travis had about 30 guests with family visiting & staying over, and Jodi showed up unannounced. Travis told her she couldn't stay--there wasn't room. She then decided to SLEEP UNDER THE CHRISTMAS TREE. And this is BEFORE they started dating!

This was Christmas 06, so she'd driven to Mesa from CA. Obviously, he didn't know she was coming, which is her mo.