trial day 50: REBUTTAL; #153

[Karraster]

The bear/tiger question left me scratching my head. WTH? Made me wonder if notoriety was the reason for this ?, after all, I for one will remember it. Possible? Any thoughts?

 

[Mellinyce]

[video=youtube;mV2iu2rGDvs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV2iu2rGDvs[/video]

I want to know what JA says at about 20 secs....!!!!! is it..."Yeah, right." (sarcastically of course)

 

[Nali87]

BUT.. why does it matter if Jodi can or cannot remember what happened?
Maybe she planned to kill him all along and then couldn't handle the aftermath. Maybe she remembers every single detail.

I don't really care.
I don't care if she couldn't deal with what she had done.
I want to talk about whether she planned to brutally take a man's life or not.

 

[tlcya]

Yes, but both would cause trauma. Maybe, I am missing something or I just don't understand.

Agreed. trauma is trauma. But the juror question seems to indicate at least one juror is thinking the same thing. Trauma is trauma, so why did Dr. S find she had PTSD and you (Dr. D) didn't? Are you saying she could not have or did not experience trauma then?

to which Dr. D answered - correct, trauma is trauma and both a tiger and a bear attack (murder gone awry and DV/self defense could induce trauma and maybe even PTSD. BUT

IF the patient lies about the traumatic event, then the things (nightmares, triggers, etc) are not going to be the same. And JA not only did not avoid triggers for either of those scenarios for her to properly be diagnosed with PTSD because JA sought out chances to be "triggered" by going to memorial, associating and communicating with his family and friends after the murder, writing about TA in her journal post murder, etc etc etc.

She actively sought those things which should be triggers out.

No one suffering PTSD is going to willingly seek out things relating to TA like JA did whether she murdered him or killed him in self defense.

In other words PTSD is not believable to Dr. D no matter what the cause, tigers or bears, lies or truths because of JA's actions afterwards.

 

[panthera]

Panthera, it was such a great day today. Dr. DeMarte did an excellent job once again.

Seeing that now watching NG...they're up to the jurors' questions now.

:great:

 

[Truth Detector]

Hmm, that bear/tiger question was bad. I said it earlier, but it's not at all analogous to what happened with Jodie lying on the PTSD test. If the juror felt it was, they have a serious deficit in logic/reasoning.

I think the juror is a Southpark fan.

The question recalls Al Gore's manbearpig lecture:

[video=youtube;xf69EEL3WBk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf69EEL3WBk[/video]

 

[Softail]

Words can't express what I feel towards Jose Baez. But he was a better attorney than this DT, IMO.

WHAT? I have to disagree!

 

[MsJosie]

Defense may not know, but that does not mean others involved close to those in the trial do know what happened, who hired the thief (s), where the laptop is now....but the fact needed to be brought out. There may be a future development on this theft, time will tell.

 

[numnut]

I wish to GAWD that HLN would STOP replaying the phone sex tape of Jodi having an orgasm!!! It really disgusts me!!! No seriously - IT DOES! I'm about to stop watching HLN altogether because of it!!! JVM plays it practically every single night! It's so GROSS!

I agree! And, I especially hate when Travis says she sounds like a 12 yr. old girl having her first orgasm. It's hot. That just makes my skin crawl.

 

[Softail]

Hurts to write positive things about Baez doesn't it .. my teeth gritted as I typed, but yes, he is a better attorney :banghead:

OMG! Not you too?

 

[nwmouse]

BUT.. why does it matter if Jodi can or cannot remember what happened?
Maybe she planned to kill him all along and then couldn't handle the aftermath. Maybe she remembers every single detail.

I don't really care.
I don't care if she couldn't deal with what she had done.
I want to talk about whether she planned to brutally take a man's life or not.

Exactly. Me too.

 

[prima.facie]

Just a little thought and something that bothered me....

When court was done today and the camera lingered and was on Jodi talking to the LA, just the two of them, we (someone has mentioned this) see 2 unkempt teenie bopper looking people just standing in the gallery all by themselves smiling at Jodi. They just keep standing there obviously trying to get her attention. Obviously, they were fans and were trying to get her recognition and now they can go tell everyone on FB and twitter "LIKE OMG JODAAAAY SMILED AT ME!!!!"

Jodi did acknowledge them with a smile.........and goes back to the jail with a big *advertiser censored* head that she has groupies.

I know she has some [delusional] groupies out there and she knows it because im sure her BFF Donovan tells her how LOOOOOOOOOOOOVED she.... but seeing LIVE in ACTION reeeealllly got under my skin. It was disgusting.

************
another thought and im wondering if someone can confirm this to me....

I missed some of the live feed due to work and did the ol' 30min rewind. The spot it picked up at, I see Jodi facing the jury section and JW facing Jodi and I swear it looked like JW touched Jodi's hair. Did anyone else see this? I may have to find it on a vid and take a screen shot....

 

[AstroKitty]

I am still in awe that she succeeded in overpowering and killing this man. I don't want to argue if she is smart or dumb, but it took some foresight to imagine and create a scenario where Travis was vulnerable with very little power, and she was in power.

I also marvel how sneaky and insidious she was, to gain entry as a friend, have sex (likely), all while knowing she are a black widow lying in wait, waiting for the opportunity to slaughter your friend and lover.

Ok so I thought about this too and still can't figure out how she overpowered him! I mean, she did - that's no question but how she wasn't beaten up (as he defended himself) I will never know. I'm pretty sure in one of the photos he's pulling his hand back to hit her. I think she startled him and that would be a natural response (or if he noticed the weapon). i'm wondering where she got him first to immobilize and take over? I think he was still able to walk around at first (the blood at the bathroom sink) and due to blood loss and her attacking him, he fell. The pictures are haunting but they leave a lot of questions.

What struck me was her desire to see the photos in all those videos. "Morbid curiosity" she kept saying. She wanted to see the autopsy photos specifically. To me that's showing she gets off on this and if given the chance she would reoffend. I really think she's a budding serial killer.

No remorse
Taking photos and that's her "MO" and how she captures them forever. Her trophies if you will. She kept bringing up her photos in the interrogation, if she talked about him at all.
no feeling of guilt or remorse

Also, the photos are the same sequence as "psycho" (I swear to god on everything). I've read somewhere else that she lived through films and fictional characters. I'm wondering if this was part of it? I looked at the side by side of TA's photos and the film .. it's pretty obvious.

 

[elementary]

I'll bring my tigers and bears comment forward from the last thread:

I don't know if I remember her explanation correctly, by my understanding of it is that: If you report having nightmares about tigers, tigers attacking you intrude into your thoughts, you are avoiding the tigers at the zoo, etc. yet the trauma you reported was that you were attacked by a bear, that would be problematic and invalidate the test. There is no reason for you to be obsessing about tigers like that when it's a bear that attacked you.

The way I understand it is that JA was evaluated for PTSD, not for trauma. You cannot transfer your responses from what really happened to the fake (another) scenario, because the situation is different, the triggers and responses are different. So, basically, the test is invalidated by the lie (substitute scenario), because the trauma would be qualitatively different. Trauma is trauma, but your responses to any particular novel trauma are not predictable and not every trauma causes PTSD. So, in that sense, one instance is not the same as the other. Hence, the test for PTSD is invalid. There was no PTSD.

 

[Doester]

The bear/tiger question left me scratching my head. WTH? Made me wonder if notoriety was the reason for this ?, after all, I for one will remember it. Possible? Any thoughts?

BBM - IMO it was pointing out that a lie is a lie is a lie.

 

[Juli]

This is :twocents::moo:
I don't think the tiger/bear question was snark.
I don't think it indicated that the juror thinks JA suffers from PTSD.
I saw it as a test of Dr.JD's impartiality and I think she failed.
From what I saw of the PSD test, the questions about symptoms were independent of the cause of trauma.
The question as I heard it, specifically referenced the PDS test.
Therefore, the results of the test - sp. a dx of PTSD - should not differ if causes differ.

DrJD very clearly demonstrated how Jodi's behavior was/is NOT in accordance with someone who suffers from PTSD. I see this as incontrovertible, frankly.

Flame away.

No flaming from me, as I have my own take on it, but I think the question was ambiguous at best.

 

[ynotdivein]

Gentle reminder:

Jean Casarez (or JC)

Jennifer Wilmott (or JW)

I do not know why we have so many "J" names in this trial, but one way or another, please remember that WS does not allow nicknames or name changes for case players.

:tyou:

 

[panthera]

I have admit that every now and then I wondered if JA ever missed Travis, or had secret regrets that the beautiful life she wanted so much to have with him would never happen. Well, color me stupid! Hearing about the call to a new love interest right after Travis's memorial service just fuels my fear of her. She is more devoid than I even imagined. She's always scared me. Now she terrifies me.

At some point, didn't JA state that she had to kill Travis so she could move on, otherwise she wouldn't be able to get over him? I recall that having been a reason but do not remember if it was something she had written with the implication being this, or if she had said it.

MOO

 

[nwmouse]

Just a little thought and something that bothered me....

When court was done today and the camera lingered and was on Jodi talking to the LA, just the two of them, we (someone has mentioned this) see 2 unkempt teenie bopper looking people just standing in the gallery all by themselves smiling at Jodi. They just keep standing there obviously trying to get her attention. Obviously, they were fans and were trying to get her recognition and now they can go tell everyone on FB and twitter "LIKE OMG JODAAAAY SMILED AT ME!!!!"

Jodi did acknowledge them with a smile.........and goes back to the jail with a big *advertiser censored* head that she has groupies.

I know she has some [delusional] groupies out there and she knows it because im sure her BFF Donovan tells her how LOOOOOOOOOOOOVED she.... but seeing LIVE in ACTION reeeealllly got under my skin. It was disgusting.

************
another thought and im wondering if someone can confirm this to me....

I missed some of the live feed due to work and did the ol' 30min rewind. The spot it picked up at, I see Jodi facing the jury section and JW facing Jodi and I swear it looked like JW touched Jodi's hair. Did anyone else see this? I may have to find it on a vid and take a screen shot....

Oh, I'm quite sure JA has some deranged "fans" supporting her. It's sickening. But then again, Charles Manson prolly gets marriage proposals all day long. Some people are defective.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

OMG! Not you too?

yes better than nurmi and wilmott, at least he didn't blame Caylee