Trial Discussion Thread #1 - 14.03.03-06, Day 1-4

[SStarr33]

'When the athlete last appeared in court, he said when he realised his mistake he did everything to save his lover, battering the toilet door with a cricket bat to get to her.'

I have always been interested in the cricket bat... I have a few round the house, but not upstairs.. one leaves them in the garage, or in the laundry.. ready to grab on the way out.. it's not something you swing about in the bedrooms, or store there.. off season, stored in its cover..it was the cricket season, in South Africa at that time, though... it would most likely be near the back door ... where did he say he got it from?? does anyone have info on that..??

Maybe he kept it nearby for protection?

I heard there was a break-in near my house the other day, so last night I slept with a butcher knife at my bedside (which you would normally find in my kitchen). My gun was right there too

 

[Paladine]

'When the athlete last appeared in court, he said when he realised his mistake he did everything to save his lover, battering the toilet door with a cricket bat to get to her.'

I have always been interested in the cricket bat... I have a few round the house, but not upstairs.. one leaves them in the garage, or in the laundry.. ready to grab on the way out.. it's not something you swing about in the bedrooms, or store there.. off season, stored in its cover..it was the cricket season, in South Africa at that time, though... it would most likely be near the back door ... where did he say he got it from?? does anyone have info on that..??

I know many people who sleep with baseball bats by the bed, here, in Canada. Many men. :waitasec: Maybe it's the people I know, lol. I had an ex-boyfriend who would sleep with one between the mattress and boxspring. Just in case an intruder came in the night. He was a wealthy businessman and was high profile in our community. I find theres a paranoia that comes with that. My :twocents:

 

[Trooper]

a cricket bat is an unhandy thing to sleep with.... I am curious as to where , exactly, it was, that he could , in his panic to help Reeva, retrieve it, and commence to batter the toilet door down..

 

[zwiebel]

It just doesn't add up to me, looking at the floorplan. If it's correct that Oscar dragged himself to the bathroom while screaming at the 'intruders' to get out....

He had to cross the bedroom, go round those closets then all the way to the toilet door, aim and fire. I cannot believe that in all that time, Reeva wouldn't have said, 'Oscar you fool, it's me in here'.

He also says he left the bed and THEN drew the blind. So the room wouldn't have been pitch black then and he'd have seen Reeva wasn't in bed. I don't even think you need to see if someone's in bed with you anyhow - you can feel and hear the presence next to you.

His story just doesn't work for me.

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/05/31/graphic-photos-of-oscar-pistorius-crime-scene-leaked/

 

[Trooper]

and on that diagram of the floor plan, it doesn't say where the cricket bat was stored.. he thinks there is an intruder.. its pitch black, he get his gun and fires it, there is screaming beforehand.. and during... he realizes the door to the toilet is locked, so he batters it with a cricket, bat... but where, on this diagram, was the cricket bat originally?? before he dropped his gun and . one presumes, turns a light on, and picks up the bat?? from where?

I realise that Canadians and Americans sleep with knives and baseball bats. haha.. but... a cricket bat is a lot bigger than either of those two instruments..

 

[Paladine]

a cricket bat is an unhandy thing to sleep with.... I am curious as to where , exactly, it was, that he could , in his panic to help Reeva, retrieve it, and commence to batter the toilet door down..

You had me at, 'to help Reeva...' I just cannot wrap my head around the intruder scenario. Help me out, anyone...how do you fear an intruder and your next thought and first concern not be to find your significant other? I just cannot get past how he says he didn't know where she was, yet, he was firing a gun multiple times, at an unseen intruder, through a locked bathroom door...when he didn't know where she was? Now, we hear about her screaming. I believe that testimony. HOW could he not know WHERE she was?

I will continue to watch the trial and read here to see how this might be so...but right now, I can't see it.

 

[soozieqtips]

Sorry if this has already been addressed, but did Roux say which window was closed at the time? I thought there was some confusion over OP saying the bathroom window was open, and Roux saying it was closed. But here, he's admitting it was open but says the toilet window was closed.

The BBC's Andrew Harding in court says the defence line was clear that as
Ms Steenkamp was in a closed toilet with a closed window, the screams the witness said she heard could not have come from her.

Mr Pistorius was in the bathroom where the window was open so the screams must have come from him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26432447

 

[aa9511]

Four shots through a closed door. This is what Oscar Pistorius will have to prove was a reasonable reaction to his alleged perceived fear that his life was in danger when he shot dead his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp.

.......

“On the particular facts of this case (the Pistorius case) putative private self-defence has never been successful in a South African court where the accused fired through a closed door thinking his life was in danger. In this case the door was locked, so the intruder would have had to break down the door to enter the house.

“Subjectively he could have foreseen that his life was in danger, but that is not the test. The test is, if that subjective belief was objectively reasonable and if he could have taken other preventative steps.

“The law is quite clear. If you can escape the imminent danger without putting your life in danger you have to do it. If you kill a person it must be in such severe circumstances that there’s virtually no other way open to protect your life.”.....

Good article to read: http://citizen.co.za/129328/reasonable-reaction/

I think we should make a copy of this and send to Florida.

 

[zwiebel]

He wouldn't be sleeping with a cricket bat under his pillow as well as a gun, for certain. Maybe under the bed as a fallback weapon of defence? Seem over the top though, if he had a gun.

I can't see him crawling to the bathroom with a bat and a gun either. Why would you do that and risk hampering yourself against possibly armed intruders? He must have gone back and got it after the shooting.

Do we know at what stage Oscar put his prosthetic legs on that night? Did police find his stump prints in Reeva's blood? They should have been there if he wasn't wearing his legs.

 

[Trooper]

You had me at, 'to help Reeva...' I just cannot wrap my head around the intruder scenario. Help me out, anyone...how do you fear an intruder and your next thought and first concern not be to find your significant other? I just cannot get past how he says he didn't know where she was, yet, he was firing a gun multiple times, at an unseen intruder, through a locked bathroom door...when he didn't know where she was? Now, we hear about her screaming. I believe that testimony. HOW could he not know WHERE she was?

I will continue to watch the trial and read here to see how this might be so...but right now, I can't see it.

Interesting, isn't it??... if we take it at face value, the entire and only purpose of the cricket bat was to release Reeva from the locked toilet. Or, the 'intruder' who has gone in there, and in the dark, in an unknown area, has managed to work the lock.. in a split second.. .. but for this purpose, he has a cricket bat retrievable in the dark, ... but I cant find where it was stored, or hidden, or secreted BEFORE the shooting.. it just appears out of the blue.

 

[aa9511]

The day before the shooting, Reeva had lunch with her ex-boyfriend, someone she continued to stay close to even after they had broken up. Some allege this might have been the impetus for whatever disagreement and words were exchanged between OP and RS. He was someone known to be jealous and insecure, according to friends who have given some interviews.

I have thought this ever since I heard about that meeting with the ex-boyfriend (who is very good-looking IIRC, also).

I have thought what may have happened is that Oscar checked Reeva's phone at night, maybe while she was sleeping. He woke her up, angry and violent. The rest progressed from there.

Or it maybe even have been while she was in the bathroom (checking her phone). She comes out, he confront her. THat's why she goes back into the bathroom, b/c it's the closest area of security, or so she thought.

 

[HauntsForHope]

This trial is sickening. I am getting so frustrated with the defense lawyers constant badgering of the witness. The same thing over and over and over... why doesn't the prosecutor object already.

 

[zwiebel]

I wonder if the prosecution experts managed to unlock Oscar's phone yet? Last I heard someone had taken it to the US to Apple HQ, but I haven't seen anything since.

I thought that was all left a bit late, with the trial due to start.

 

[minor4th]

You had me at, 'to help Reeva...' I just cannot wrap my head around the intruder scenario. Help me out, anyone...how do you fear an intruder and your next thought and first concern not be to find your significant other? I just cannot get past how he says he didn't know where she was, yet, he was firing a gun multiple times, at an unseen intruder, through a locked bathroom door...when he didn't know where she was? Now, we hear about her screaming. I believe that testimony. HOW could he not know WHERE she was?

I will continue to watch the trial and read here to see how this might be so...but right now, I can't see it.

Even if his story is true, it's irrational behavior and he should be convicted of some kind of reckless homicide at a minimum.

 

[Trooper]

He wouldn't be sleeping with a cricket bat under his pillow as well as a gun, for certain. Maybe under the bed as a fallback weapon of defence? Seem over the top though, if he had a gun.

I can't see him crawling to the bathroom with a bat and a gun either. Why would you do that and risk hampering yourself against possibly armed intruders? He must have gone back and got it after the shooting.

Do we know at what stage Oscar put his prosthetic legs on that night? Did police find his stump prints in Reeva's blood? They should have been there if he wasn't wearing his legs.

By the time Oscar arms himself with the cricket bat, he has
(1) been subjected to a woman screaming ( Ms Burger)

(2). got his loaded gun

(3) fired off 4 shots into the toilet

(4) realizes he has shot someone in the toilet area, and that toilet door is locked

(5)..found , from somewhere. (but WHERE was it? ), a cricket bat to batter at the locked door .

 

[HauntsForHope]

The world knows he guilty, the evidence is overwhelming, so why embarrass themselves by calling everyone else liars. It reeks of desperation. Maybe it's just a different system in SA but wow. Makes me forget about any plans of travel outside the US. The thought of ever being caught up in a crime, like Amanda Knox, outside the US is terrifying.

 

[aa9511]

RS could not run out his bedroom door as it was locked! So where was the key? IMO OP could have locked RS in there earlier in the night so she could not go home and hid the key so all she could do was run to the toilet and lock herself in there.

Thanks. In the US, most of the time you don't need a key to unlock the door from the inside. But I know that in places like Europe and I see now that in South Africa, too, the door is unlocked with a key.

Did the investigators do any fingerprint tests on the door? To see if she had tried to open it?

 

[zwiebel]

This trial is sickening. I am getting so frustrated with the defense lawyers constant badgering of the witness. The same thing over and over and over... why doesn't the prosecutor object already.

It is frustrating, but sometimes objections are too. I think it was the Arias trial where they seemed just endless. At least there's no jury having to go in and out like yo yos at this trial.

 

[HauntsForHope]

I wonder if the prosecution experts managed to unlock Oscar's phone yet? Last I heard someone had taken it to the US to Apple HQ, but I haven't seen anything since.

I thought that was all left a bit late, with the trial due to start.

Yes, I read last night that Pistorious claimed he could not remember the password so they took it to Apple to access and they were able to access everything. I expect it will come out in trial if they found anything useful. I am more interested in the phone she had with her in the bathroom.

This lover's quarrel gone wrong on Valentines Day could certainly have begun with a text or call from the ex. OP is known for his bad temper and resorting to gunfire when he is angry and can't have his way. He is a man that simply cannot take no for an answer.

 

[aa9511]

By the time Oscar arms himself with the cricket bat, he has
(1) been subjected to a woman screaming ( Ms Burger)

(2). got his loaded gun

(3) fired off 4 shots into the toilet

(4) realizes he has shot someone in the toilet area, and that toilet door is locked

(5)..found , from somewhere. (but WHERE was it? ), a cricket bat to batter at the locked door .

Does anyone know if he actually even plays cricket?

I find it very believable that he could have the cricket bed under his bed for extra protection. He seemed to be very paranoid.