Trial Discussion Thread #1 - 14.03.03-06, Day 1-4

[Trooper]

He hasn't claimed he "screamed" before the shots. That was the testimony of MB & CB, which is compelling testimony but also testimony that has some credibility issues.

Schubes,, forgive my insertion, but that isn't correct.. in his original statement and his bail application he makes it quite clear that he , with gun in hand, on his stumps, at the bathroom door, screamed out to the intruder to get out, get out.. as one does.

Intruder in the bathroom, because of the noise he hears, grabs gun, stumps up screaming at this intruder, which he thinks has got in thru the bathroom window via a ladder left by the workmen.

 

[Trooper]

so in Oscars own words, there IS screaming before shots fired.

 

[katydid23]

He hasn't claimed he "screamed" before the shots. That was the testimony of MB & CB, which is compelling testimony but also testimony that has some credibility issues.

I saw Roux today, claiming that the voice that the doctor heard was actually Oscar,s voice. He said that the doctor on the stand today was misTaken when he thought he heard a woman scream.

 

[Schuby]

so in Oscars own words, there IS screaming before shots fired.

Yeah, I wasn't thinking he had not screamed that necessarily, but, if he did, it would make sense she'd lock the bathroom door be silent as she'd be under the impression an intruder was in the house.

 

[Schuby]

I saw Roux today, claiming that the voice that the doctor heard was actually Oscar,s voice. He said that the doctor on the stand today was misTaken when he thought he heard a woman scream.

Sorry! I stand corrected.

 

[Trooper]

the worrying thing is, Reeva is inside the locked toilet door.. she hears Oscars voice screaming get out, get out, coming TOWARDS her.. not away.. Oscar didn't go into the second bedroom, or the second bathroom.. this voice screaming get out, get out, is getting louder and more furious as it comes TOWARDS her . its coming towards her, not away from her because that's what Oscar says and, of course, that's where the shots are fired. ... he is on the hunt with the gun going towards, and into the bathroom .

 

[katydid23]

the worrying thing is, Reeva is inside the locked toilet door.. she hears Oscars voice screaming get out, get out, coming TOWARDS her.. not away.. Oscar didn't go into the second bedroom, or the second bathroom.. this voice screaming get out, get out, is getting louder and more furious as it comes TOWARDS her . its coming towards her, not away from her because that's what Oscar says and, of course, that's where the shots are fired. ... he is on the hunt with the gun going towards, and into the bathroom .

So are they now claiming g that when Oscar was screaming GET OUT he was screaming like a girl?

 

[Trooper]

I suppose Oscar would be screaming in a high pitched voice to the intruder?? you would think he would make his voice as deep as possible, portraying himself as some sort of lumberjack figure.. ( merely postulating )

ALL voices heard at high and low pitch that night, according to Roux under Oscars intructions are HIS. His alone. there are no other voices.. whoever heard anything, whatever they heard, in whatever manner if came across as, terrified, man, woman, monotone, etc.. ALL were Oscars.. he himself hears no woman screaming, naturally.. because its his voice alone, in all and every pitch and gender and volume and manner testified to.

neat, ey?

 

[katydid23]

the worrying thing is, Reeva is inside the locked toilet door.. she hears Oscars voice screaming get out, get out, coming TOWARDS her.. not away.. Oscar didn't go into the second bedroom, or the second bathroom.. this voice screaming get out, get out, is getting louder and more furious as it comes TOWARDS her . its coming towards her, not away from her because that's what Oscar says and, of course, that's where the shots are fired. ... he is on the hunt with the gun going towards, and into the bathroom .

And if she was oly wounded on the first shot,why wouldn't she call out to him and say ITs ME, STOP SHOOTING?

 

[Trooper]

So are they now claiming g that when Oscar was screaming GET OUT he was screaming like a girl?

Yes.. all voices heard by others that night, according to Oscars attorney are his. No one else in all of Silverwood is yelling, screaming, wailing, howling, crying , mumbling.. only Oscar...

Oscar is the source, and only source, of ANY voice, ANY sound at all, for the entire event..

This is the position of Roux under Oscars instructions.

 

[JuneBug67]

As unintuitive as it is, I think there are scenarios that make this an accident as Oscar describes. The hints of the timeline evidence today certainly give some pause. It is those hard facts that will, hopefully, tell the story to the satisfaction of the courts and families. The worst kind of analysis is trying to imagine what is 'normal' for any given situation, or what any of us think we would do. Common sense is of course an important element of understanding, but that can drift into assumptions and conjecture that need to be seen as such.

Very interesting trial so far. Today was the first time the defence really scored some points I thought. It's a bit concerning for the prosecution I would think, given that this is their presentation.

 

[Schuby]

I suppose Oscar would be screaming in a high pitched voice to the intruder?? you would think he would make his voice as deep as possible, portraying himself as some sort of lumberjack figure.. ( merely postulating )

ALL voices heard at high and low pitch that night, according to Roux under Oscars intructions are HIS. His alone. there are no other voices.. whoever heard anything, whatever they heard, in whatever manner if came across as, terrified, man, woman, monotone, etc.. ALL were Oscars.. he himself hears no woman screaming, naturally.. because its his voice alone, in all and every pitch and gender and volume and manner testified to.

neat, ey?

They aren't claiming that he shrieked "get out of my house" in a loud, high pitch, just as they aren't claiming he told Reeva to call the police at shrieking high pitch.

 

[Trooper]

And if she was oly wounded on the first shot,why wouldn't she call out to him and say ITs ME, STOP SHOOTING?

beats me, katy!


If one follows Roux's logic, why didn't Oscar himself, in a girls loud voice tell HIMSELF, don't shoot, then in a deep mans voice say, GETOUT< GET OUT. then in a high girls voice say, It's me, Oscar!!. stop shooting!!...


* snort*

 

[aa9511]

The bullet pierced her arm as it was protecting her head and magically exited her arm without entering the head it was protecting all while she was dancing around in this cramped toilet room. But I'm the silly one.

Here's what I think: If the door was the way it was as Oscar says it was (intact door), and the intruder was making no noise at all, how did he get 3 shots to go into this intruder? Meaning, I would have expected more shots to have missed. I mean, yes, it is a small area, but still - just imagine basically you are shooting with a blinfold on. Just shooting in the general direction. Because the person is being the closed door - you cannot (supposedly) see the person.

I just have a very hard time believing that, under those circumstances, Oscar got 3 shots into the body. 3 out of 4 total.

He either heard Reeva's voice (and thus got a very good idea of EXACTLY which direction to point and shoot in), or there was an opening in which he could see her, or both.

 

[Trooper]

They aren't claiming that he shrieked "get out of my house" in a loud, high pitch, just as they aren't claiming he told Reeva to call the police at shrieking high pitch.

I didn't say they were claiming that Schuby.. I said Roux and Oscar claim that ALL voices the witnesses heard WERE OSCARS..

ALL voices heard by the witnesses.. none of the witnesses testified that they heard WHAT he said when he claims the intruder snuck in .

I state, and I state categorically, that.. according to Oscar and Roux.. EVERY SINGLE UTTERANCE of HUMAN VOICE heard by these witnesses were Oscars, and NO ONE ELSES..

if the witnesses thought it was a woman. no. according to Roux and Oscar, Oscar can do that voice , no worries.. the one witness who head BOTH a mans voice and a womans voice at the same time is mistaken, according to Oscar.. Oscar can do both a mans voice and a womans voice at the same time, but he doesn't need to prove that particularly as according to Roux, the witness is mistaken.

what the witness heard, was Oscar.. deep pitch, high pitch, whatever...

 

[jilly]

(respectfully snipped for space)

But I think he must be guilty of something. At the time, an expert on SA firearms law said the situation doesn't exist where you are legally entitled to fire upon an unidentified target. Assuming that's accurate, OP's got problems whichever way the pre-med aspect goes - even if it doesn't amount to a 25-stretch.

IMO, the least he will get is 15 yrs - max for culpable homicide.

.....Pistorius took such a competency test for his 9 mm pistol and passed it, according to the South African Police Service’s National Firearms Center. He therefore should have known that firing through a closed door cannot be viewed in South African law as an accident, according to Andre Pretorius, president of the Professional Firearm Trainers Council, a regulatory body for South African firearms instructors.

Criminal law experts say that if the prosecution fails to prove premeditated murder, firing several shots through a closed door could bring a conviction for the lesser charge of culpable homicide, a South African equivalent of manslaughter, which could still land him in prison......

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...ed63e6-a24f-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html

 

[Trooper]

there are no witnesses to Oscars claim of him calling Get out, get out, or Reeva call the police.. none. . that's Oscars solo story. So its absurd to posture that it is claimed he used his high voice for those words.. no one knows except Oscar.. and Reeva, but she is dead.

but as to the argumentative voices heard before the shooting, and during. . it is claimed by Oscar, that all these voices were his.

 

[Amber29]

What is he shooting, a bazooka? How is a 9mm bullet going to knock a door panel out?

I wasn't suggesting he wanted to get her out. But if you suggest he was knocking at the door first, you do accept he was trying to get to her, yes? If that's his goal, he was successful, the door was breaking away.

I also said it was a previously damaged panel by the bat, I don't think it's far fetched that a bullet hitting it from close range could knock it loose.

No I don't accept that he was trying to get her out, maybe it started that way but it went further because as I said I think he was in a fit of rage. A rage that IMO ended in murder.

I could be completely wrong about the sequence of events either way I believe the numerous witnesses who have testified to a woman's screaming before the gunshots.

 

[Trooper]

not that Oscar claims the voices were argumentative.. in fact, he states no such of an event took place at all. the ONLY words Oscar uttered were (1) get out and (reeva call the police)according to him .

all that argy bargy in two voices just prior to the shooting and DURING it didn't happen. the witnesses are mistaken . or fantasizing. or imagining. all at the same time, too, and on the same night in the same location..

 

[aa9511]

Yes.. all voices heard by others that night, according to Oscars attorney are his. No one else in all of Silverwood is yelling, screaming, wailing, howling, crying , mumbling.. only Oscar...

Oscar is the source, and only source, of ANY voice, ANY sound at all, for the entire event..

This is the position of Roux under Oscars instructions.

The thing that really, just really gets me that something is "wrong" with his story is like someone else said earlier - it's like Reeva is just on "mute." It's like Reeva did not even exist.

Well, Reeva DID exist before he shot her. And his story begins BEFORE he shot her.

And not only did she exist, she was, even ACCORDING TO HIM, awake and moving around (obviously).

Yet, in Oscar's story, there is NO SOUND from Reeva. Reeva is completely silent.

I do not believe that, even according to his story, Reeva would have been completely silent even before she was killed.

There was plenty going on. There was, according even to Oscar, waking up. There was him getting fans. There was belief intruder had come in. There was getting of gun. There was going towards the bathroom, yelling at intruder to get out. Going towards the bathroom and into the bathroom. There were shots fired. And THEN Reeva dies.

Yet, through all that, Reeva is silent. Like a ghost, except Oscar *forgets* that in his story, she is still alive during that whole time.

Also, he thought there was an intruder before he got the gun, supposedly. The gun was under (or by?) the bed. He didn't know Reeva had *gone* to the bathroom. Wouldn't he have whispered to Reeva AS he's getting the gun "I think someone broke in" or something along those lines? Yet he doesn't mention anything like that. I know he says she was in the bathroom. But he didn't know she was *in the bathroom.* I imagine he would have said something as he was getting the gun. Yet, in his story, he doesn't even do anything like that. Because, IMO, he didn't think about that. Because he was only thinking about his story the way he concocted it out of imagination. And in his story, Reeva is in the bathroom at that time. So he didn't think about saying something to Reeva as he's getting the gun. It was not relevant to his made-up story.

He fits Reeva in whenever it's convenient, and leaves her out whenever it's convenient.

JMO.