Trial Discussion Thread #12 - 14.03.24, Day 14

[G.bng]

I see lots of talk about culpable homicide. That charge relates to the unintentional killing of a human being; ex: a man gets drunk and drives, has an accident and another man dies, that is unintentional killing, that is culpable homicide. And I read a lot of opinions here about OP getting that charge and not murder, I strongly believe that those opinions are misled. That being said I really don't understand all of the debate about it, I mean either way he is going to prison for at least 15 years! Throw in the other charges and it just gets worse. And as I understand it they do not have a super luxurious prison dedicated for celebrity convicts.

I hope my message does not sound harsh to your ears, it is just the way I think and express those thoughts in a short message.

No, not too harsh for a viper... ; - )

but in case you have me wrong, I am absolutely not one of those who argue this is "culpable homicide", indeed I have consistently argued that imo and according to SA law it is murder even if OP genuinely thought he was shooting at a door behind which was a burglar... unless of course they can prove he didn't intend to kill the burglar, or that he could not have known that shooting into the door of such a tiny space was likely to kill or seriously injure any person inside... yeah, and of course pigs have wings!

 

[TorisMom003]

I see the connection of OP's diabolically irresponsible gun use and the shooting of Reeva, although I don't see that this has any bearing on the status of their relationship. I understand the idea of keeping daughters away from bad guys, but this isn't what the trial is about.

If bad guys intentionally killed, bank robbers would all be single.

It goes to his state of mind and how he handles himself in certain situations. We also have the text messages that show the manner in how OP treated Reeva. We also have the testimony from an ex girlfriend that also shows how OP treated her and it was in the same fashion as to how he treated Reeva.

IMO it has more to do with OP's temper and how he handles disputes and/or arguments.

MOO

ETA: As to the second part "If bad guys intentionally killed, bank robbers would all be single." is simply not true. There are murderers in prison that have married after being found guilty. Just because a person kills does not mean that there is not someone out there that will marry them anyway.

 

[Fairynuff]

OP pointed the gun at a door to a (small) toilet room knowing their was a person or persons behind that door........

He had options......he chose to shoot to kill.....in SA that is enough for premeditation........:drumroll:

you cannot tell me that after the first shot he didn't know it was reeva. after hearing the testimony from the ballistics policeman and the pathologist who clearly state that having fractured her hip with the first shot she would have screamed. now i don't think he would have thought it was an intruder to be honest to have fired the next 3 shots in rapid succession.

 

[steveml]

I have read many cases in the UK where people have been killed by someone in a fit of rage and end up being convicted of manslaughter not murder .My own personal belief is that killing in anger should be still be murder .
We see miscarriage 's of justice everyday ,some people treated too harshly and some too leniently .i guess that will always be the case . No system can ever be perfect I suppose

That's true. It probably will never be perfect, and it's taken us years to get this far. Is it the name that concerns you or the length of sentence? Sentencing for manslaughter in the UK is at the Judges discretion, so there is at least some flexibility for the punishment to fit the crime.

 

[jassy writer]

This afternoon's testimony has left me feeling really sad. She could have, and should have, got out of it, she was just unlucky. I feel so sad for her that she had to leave her friend's party early because he had a jealous fit and accused her of flirting with a friend's husband (exactly the same thing happened to me with a jealous partner, by the way). She said it was a day in her life she will never get back. Could have and should have been a happy day, and now there are no more left. Likewise her comment about how she just wanted to love and to be loved, and the chance to do so with a decent person has been ripped from her.

 

[screecher]

I agree with all you say except that he "willfully" murdered her. I personally think if he did know Reeva was behind the door then it would have been in a jealous rage with things getting out of hand. Maybe she wouldn't open the toilet door and he shot at it to open it... I tend that way. And I do recall hearing something about Reeva's ex texting her that night but of course if that's all the phone evidence then it cannot be correct.

BBM

Wait. You post: "I agree with all you say except that he "willfully" murdered her."

"...if he did know Reeva was behind the door...."

Huh? WTH did OP think Reeva was? Out running thru the sprinkler system to cool down? :banghead:

"... Maybe she wouldn't open the toilet door and he shot at it to open it..."

In a jealous rage, shooting at the door, because she refused to open it, using those particular bullets??? Seriously??? No-one made the decision to shoot but OP. Not Reeva, not OP's friends, not even the boogie-man. Only OP. He WILLFULLY made that decision. :maddening: Jeez, it's fortunate he has no children, seeing as children are notorious for locking doors.

 

[AlexUK]

well.. Moller is only up to Feb 7th..more to come tomorrow..


and THEN OSCARS SECRET PHONE> the one he 'couldn't find'..

Didn't OP insist he couldn't remember his log in password for WhatsApp at one stage? Very convenient to 'forget' it bearing in mind what has been revealed from those exchanges with RS today!


Oh....found this...not one of the UK's most respected news sources tho...

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...laims-he-cannot-remember-log-in-for-phone-app

 

[Gbtaketwo]

That's true. It probably will never be perfect, and it's taken us years to get this far. Is it the name that concerns you or the length of sentence? Sentencing for manslaughter in the UK is at the Judges discretion, so there is at least some flexibility for the punishment to fit the crime.

I think for me it is mainly the sentencing . I personally think that even catching someone in the act of adultery still does not justify manslaughter and a short sentence because it is still an act of anger .
To me manslaughter should be irresponsible behaviour that resulted in a death that you could not reasonable have foreseen more of an accident.
I believe short sentences are encouraging violent crime .

 

[Dmacky]

well well well.......finally finished todays testimony.

Poor Reeva......seems she ignored all the red flags in this relationship with OP

controlling ..... disrespectful of her in front of others....jealousy....etc etc etc....

This text tore at my heart strings

I just want to love and be loved, be happy and make someone happy.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

BBM

Wait. You post: "I agree with all you say except that he "willfully" murdered her."

"...if he did know Reeva was behind the door...."

Huh? WTH did OP think Reeva was? Out running thru the sprinkler system to cool down? :banghead:

"... Maybe she wouldn't open the toilet door and he shot at it to open it..."

In a jealous rage, shooting at the door, because she refused to open it, using those particular bullets??? Seriously??? No-one made the decision to shoot but OP. Not Reeva, not OP's friends, not even the boogie-man. Only OP. He WILLFULLY made that decision. :maddening: Jeez, it's fortunate he has no children, seeing as children are notorious for locking doors.

I think if he intended to shoot the lock out the lock would have been shot out . He is a good marksman and not likely to have missed it four times .

 

[kittychi]

That stuff about the curtain tiebacks was really scraping the barrel. Asking the judge to accept witness completely lied about being able to see out of her bedroom window. He was also under the impression they were those hook on the wall ones and didn't know it was a moveable rope, I think....

There are some good screen shots on Twitter at @JacaNews, including the Stipps' home and bedroom. I was unable to load images, but check out the images on this Twitter account:


https://twitter.com/JacaNews

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Didn't OP insist he couldn't remember his log in password for WhatsApp at one stage? Very convenient to 'forget' it bearing in mind what has been revealed from those exchanges with RS today!


Oh....found this...not one of the UK's most respected news sources tho...

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...laims-he-cannot-remember-log-in-for-phone-app

Yes he has post traumatic stress syndrome creating selective memory loss !!

 

[Insp.Dots]

If anything good can come from this awful event I hope it is that South Africa will look at it's Gun Laws and take Domestic Crimes more seriously. We all have strong feelings in this group can you imagine how it must be for the people actually involved.

ETA... it is wise to remember their are also many women that are controlling, possessive and abusive to their partners. Reeva was also receiving and putting up with an ex of OP calling her names and being *****y!
For me, the thing that stands out most in this is the tragedy that there may have been signs.
Reeves was so loved and friends did question her relationship and she said herself to one that she would never be with someone who was abusive to her again. IMO Reeva probably saw reasons for his insecurity and thought like many that he loved her and made excuses for his tantrums. That is nothing new, how can you know if that will turn physical? Some do but thankfully, many don't.
Once again, I hope for justice for this beautiful woman. I am confident that the Judge in this case is more than capable of coming to the right judgment and sentence.

 

[TorisMom003]

I think if he intended to shoot the lock out the lock would have been shot out . He is a good marksman and not likely to have missed it four times .

Not to mention that after that first shot, during that pause, that Reeva screamed because she had been hit in the hip. Who, without intending to kill the person behind the closed door, would continue shooting three more times to "shoot out the lock"?

 

[steveml]

Didn't OP insist he couldn't remember his log in password for WhatsApp at one stage? Very convenient to 'forget' it bearing in mind what has been revealed from those exchanges with RS today!


Oh....found this...not one of the UK's most respected news sources tho...

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...laims-he-cannot-remember-log-in-for-phone-app

Oh no. I clicked the link. I can't believe I've got Daily Star history on my PC now. Any credibility I might have had has now gone in an instant.

Just off to reformat my PC
:runaway:

 

[soozieqtips]

I agree entirely. I hope everyone's read the MOD note at the beginning of the thread, It has obviously been noted and it appears that bans are going to be handed out if it carries on. Whatever anyone's personal experiences or feelings towards the victim/accused they should certainly not be aimed towards individual posters.

There's a lot of complaining going on about other posters in this thread. It might be wise for those posters to take it up with the moderators in private rather than risk derailing the thread.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Yes, I do believe that is a good thing in many ways, harsh though that may seem. ONE THING THAT CAN NEVER BE CHANGED IS THE TRUTH. OP will have no argument in the future to say the evidence wasn't properly tested or that he suffered a Miscarriage of Justice.

 

[AlexUK]

Oh no. I clicked the link. I can't believe I've got Daily Star history on my PC now. Any credibility I might have had has now gone in an instant.

Just off to reformat my PC
:runaway:

Could have been worse....could have been the Daily Fail :facepalm:

 

[kittychi]

Oh no. I clicked the link. I can't believe I've got Daily Star history on my PC now. Any credibility I might have had has now gone in an instant.

Just off to reformat my PC
:runaway:

:floorlaugh:

 

[steveml]

There's a lot of complaining going on about other posters in this thread. It might be wise for those posters to take it up with the moderators in private rather than risk derailing the thread.

Hopefully that shouldn't need to happen. The mod request is really very simple. People should not be trying to alter other people's opinions. Everything on this forum here is speculation and opinion, and nobody has the right to claim that they are right.