Trial Discussion Thread #12 - 14.03.24, Day 14

[TorisMom003]

Anyone that watched the trial today live, can you tell me if OP was crying during the reading/viewing of the text messages?

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Can anyone remember the text where OP is asking her not to tell anyone because 'Darren has taken the blame', and Reeva texts back she doesn't 'know what you are talking about', and a smiley?

How did Reeva find out about that - she wasn't there in the restaurant that day of the shooting. Had OP told her earlier, and was regretting it? Or had he heard that someone else had told her about it? It's all a bit odd.

I didn't know that she wasn't there until now .
It is however proof that she did know something that he didn't want to come out .
We all have our suspicions and theories which may well be answered by the further testimony tomorrow.
One press article says that she had her mobile turned off for most of the evening which seems quite unusual for a person of her age bearing in mind her career . Would be interested to know if that was normal for her or not .

 

[steveml]

But it was petty and meaningless.

If this had been an ordinary conversation outside a courtroom, when she said she wasn't there you would say, "Ah, but this was taken on the Friday (or whatever) and you were there then". It would just be a misunderstanding of no significance, clarified there and then.

Ms Stipp wouldn't have realised she was setting herself up for a fall today, and that was partly the fault of the state. The state should have forewarned her that her hand may appear on one of the photo's, and it was scandalous if they didn't spot it.

To be a perfectly fair witness Ms Stipp should also have insisted that the photographs used in evidence were showing exactly how she would have seen the window. She will undoubtedly receive a lot of vitriol from some obsessive OP fans because of that. I'd be fuming with the state if I were put in her position.

 

[zwiebel]

With Africa not having a problem with hearsay maybe the Ex will be a witness and tell us what he and she talked about the day before.

Hey, outta my head! You were answering my hearsay question before I even posted it, Lol!

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Anyone that watched the trial today live, can you tell me if OP was crying during the reading/viewing of the text messages?

I read one press release that said he was towards the end and was comforted by his sister .

 

[AlexUK]

I think the times when he fills his lungs in exasperation is really condescending. Likewise when be breathes out and sighs. In fact, just when he breathes...

.....and him constantly saying 'wonderful' in a rather sarky way when Mrs S finished speaking :snooty:

 

[zwiebel]

Anyone that watched the trial today live, can you tell me if OP was crying during the reading/viewing of the text messages?

I hardly got a chance to glance at the screen, as Mrs Stipp spoke so fast and OW was...ponderous and long winded. But I have seen lots of tweets that OP was crying and was comforted by his sis as soon as session ended. Nothing about vomit, thankfully.

 

[TorisMom003]

I read one press release that said he was towards the end and was comforted by his sister .

I saw a press release about that as well. However, I did not read on the thread where anyone saw this and reported it to us. Trying to watch the trial after the tea break yet there is no sound for me.

 

[james83]

So sick of the line of questioning from the defence, it's like slow torture, they might aswell say before they start "We are going to ask you the same thing in every conceivable way over and over again until you make a slip up", sometimes the judge needs to clamp down on this imo.

 

[james83]

Reading those messages and thinking about the incident to me it reads like
Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick BOOOOOMMMMM.

 

[AlexUK]

One press article says that she had her mobile turned off for most of the evening which seems quite unusual for a person of her age bearing in mind her career . Would be interested to know if that was normal for her or not .

Perhaps OP insisted she turn it off so he could have her full attention?

 

[zwiebel]

.....and him constantly saying 'wonderful' in a rather sarky way when Mrs S finished speaking :snooty:

It was his 'Madam' that got me. I thought only French waiters in France could say it like that, if a person has the poor taste to ask for ketchup with their frites instead of mayonnaise.

 

[lisasalinger]

So Oscar was moody and didn't behave well, or didn't behave the way Reeva liked, on some occasions. He accused her of flirting - and maybe she was or maybe she wasn't. He criticized things about her that she got sad about.

I don't see the real relevance of these messages though, other than to show that they had arguments and issues with each other.

I'm way behind, but trying to catch up.... I think it's hugely significant that she specifically said she was scared of him. It's one thing to be pissed after an argument, but to be scared... that's different.

 

[TorisMom003]

Perhaps OP insisted she turn it off so he could have her full attention?

While he himself looked at *advertiser censored* and used cars. Go figure. But of course he wasn't controlling or possessive at all. /snark

 

[Insp.Dots]

Concerning the I am not a stripper or a ho from Reeva to OP, the only reason Reeva would say something like this is if OP had made mention of her being one and/or the other to her before. Now, is it shown that OP said that to her in this set of text messages? No, however that does not mean that he did not say it. A woman is not going to offer that up out of the blue without being accused of it first. A woman that has used weed before is not going to equate that with being a stripper and/or ho. Drug use, occasional or regular, does not equate with being a stripper and/or ho.

MOO

Maybe someone else had called her those names and she was upset he didn't stand up to them?

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Perhaps OP insisted she turn it off so he could have her full attention?

That's what I was thinking or that she turned it off because she was worried someone might contact her
Wonder if his was turned off as well ,probably not .
Should find out tomorrow .

 

[steveml]

I'm way behind, but trying to catch up.... I think it's hugely significant that she specifically said she was scared of him. It's one thing to be pissed after an argument, but to be scared... that's different.

Yes. That's the only word I've seen in the msgs that infers OP has a short fuse. I'm conceding to that one, although most of the other stuff in the messages is a storm in a teacup for me.

 

[kittychi]

I found something interesting at this link:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-recap-3276636#ixzz2wuD1L3xl

7:59 am "On February 21 this year there was another incident.
They woke up with people arguing. She said they were not getting up this time.
He went out this time and closed the balcony doors, going to bed.
Neighbours asked if they could hear the commotion but they said that they had chosen to ignore it at that stage.
Neighbours said there were people in the garden.
In the early hours of March 18 they woke up from screams. They heard a male screaming at a higher and lower pitch.
"I was completely annoyed because it was half three in the morning".
She saw men standing in the garden and "made a comment to them" then went back into the house."

Could that have been Roux's voice experiment from Oscar's home?

 

[TorisMom003]

This is what the defense team is doing :deadhorse:

Mrs. Stipp stated that the female screaming stopped after the last shot of the second set of shots? Is that correct? Just went back and listened. "After the first shots I heard a female screaming." "The screaming continued up until the second set of shots. The female screaming." She then goes on to say that the screaming (female) ended at the last shot of the second set of shots. This is damning to the defense, IMO.

 

[G.bng]

BBM- I spent 5 years volunteering at a woman's shelter & most of my clients would say that those messages reflect their story, most would say OMG that sounds like me. I had a client who's bf knocked her down in his car, then repeatedly ran over her legs. This client was only 23 years old & her legs were so badly crushed they were both amputated above the knees. To say that OP may have been trying to open the door by shooting at it is as bad as her bf claiming he was just trying to scare her. My clients crime like RS was that her bf believed she was flirting with another guy.

I am afraid I have to take umbridge at your accusing me of being:

"as bad as her bf claiming he was just trying to scare her"

unless you have misunderstood my post, (which may be by my use of the word, "accident" albeit as here I used it in quotes to question it and I clarified it with "of sorts" and which was a theory of what the defence could try to argue), in which case I would hope for some form of apology as you have tantamount to equated my ethics and moral fibre to that of a violent abuser which, to me at least, is an unmerited personal insult that I thought were out of bounds on the blog.

In none of my posts have I ever once condoned OP shooting at a door even if he genuinely thought it was a burglar/s behind it and he just wanted to scare them. Nor have I ever condoned OP shooting in anger, or tried to make light of it, merely explained my theory of his getting in a rage which does not in any shape or form constitute an excuse for his conduct neither for me nor for the court.

I have argued that I don't think OP "premeditated" the murder, at least not in the way we interpret premeditation here in UK, nor as it appears it is also interpreted in the US where murder with premeditation is distinct from murder without premeditation and treated much more harshly, as according to the Wikipedia definition:

"Premeditated murder is the crime of wrongfully and intentionally causing the death of another human being (also known as murder) after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension.[1] State laws in the United States vary as to definitions of "premeditation." In some states, premeditation may be construed as taking place mere seconds before the murder. Premeditated murder is usually defined as one of the most serious forms of homicide, and is punished more severely than manslaughter or other types of murder - often with the death penalty or a life sentence without the possibility of parole."

that is, with "malice aforethought", that is, that OP would have drawn up a plan, thought it through, etc. The fact I don't consider what has happened as anything less than murder (in SA law there are just two charges for homicide, i.e. "murder" and "culpable homicide") should have been clear to you by my aside:

"albeit technically it would I think still be qualified as a murder for court purposes and I would think that right"

when clarifying that in my opinion it would still be classed as murder even though it was imo not "premeditated" in the normal use of the word, at least here in the UK and as it appears it is used in the US too.

I hope this has clarified my position because I certainly do not condone nor excuse any kind of violence whatsoever, I merely wanted to aport my ideas, limited legal knowledge, readings, and research to reasoned discussions around the legal aspects of the case.