Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[Viper]

It was Judge Masipa's take on it. She granted bail :facepalm:

I'll refer to The Daily Star next time. :wink:

Anyhow, I'm not going to let this become a peeing contest, as there are far more interesting parts of the trial to consider.

Magistrate Nair granted bail not Judge Masipa. Masipa was assigned the case much later. It is not that OP just granted bail because the magistrate believed his affidavit, to the contrary the magistrate found his fairy tale unbelievable a directly told OP of a number of deficiencies that he found, many if which are discussed here daily.

The magistrate also felt that OP was a flight risk and place harsh restrictions on him. Many of the restrictions were lifted by an appellate judge, but he too maintained restrictions on OP leaving the country - chiefly Roux would have to give advanced notice of any travel to the State so that they could get a court order to stop OP if at that time they had reason to believe that he would not return.

 

[steveml]

Magistrate Nair granted bail not Judge Masipa. Masipa was assigned the case much later. It is not that OP just granted bail because the magistrate believed his affidavit, to the contrary the magistrate found his fairy tale unbelievable a directly told OP of a number of deficiencies that he found, many if which are discussed here daily.

The magistrate also felt that OP was a flight risk and place harsh restrictions on him. Many of the restrictions were lifted by an appellate judge, but he too maintained restrictions on OP leaving the country - chiefly Roux would have to give advanced notice of any travel to the State so that they could get a court order to stop OP if at that time they had reason to believe that he would not return.

That's correct.

If perceived guilt is viewed to be too strong, bail is unlikely to be granted.

 

[Trooper]

Magistrate Nair granted bail not Judge Masipa. Masipa was assigned the case much later. It is not that OP just granted bail because the magistrate believed his affidavit, to the contrary the magistrate found his fairy tale unbelievable a directly told OP of a number of deficiencies that he found, many if which are discussed here daily.

The magistrate also felt that OP was a flight risk and place harsh restrictions on him. Many of the restrictions were lifted by an appellate judge, but he too maintained restrictions on OP leaving the country - chiefly Roux would have to give advanced notice of any travel to the State so that they could get a court order to stop OP if at that time they had reason to believe that he would not return.

indeed, Desmond Nair is a tremendous nit picker too. he kept at it ...

granting bail is an iffy business.. I give credit to Roux for undertaking the adherence to the bail afflictions, on Oscars behalf. its always a risk. of course, a rather large bail bond was posted. not too large for the Pistorious Peeps, but enough to satisfy the general public....

 

[Trooper]

and frankly .. Bail was a rational decision. better to have Oscar outside, residing at Uncle Arnolds than causing him to appear to be a pitiful creature on remand.. .

 

[Trooper]

That's correct.

If perceived guilt is viewed to be too strong, bail is unlikely to be granted.

oh.not at all. not at all. some of the most savage and persistant murderers get bail. it isn't a sort of preview of the verdict.. its merely part of the process..


insane murderers even get bail, if they can manage to hold themselves together during the hearing.

Naturally, the foaming , screaming ones don't..

 

[Trooper]

I hope no one is reading into the fact that Oscar got bail that it signifies he is most likely innocent??


golly..

 

[steveml]

and frankly .. Bail was a rational decision. better to have Oscar outside, residing at Uncle Arnolds than causing him to appear to be a pitiful creature on remand.. .

Two top advocates argued the case. The same as it will be in the trial.

 

[james83]

Oscar got bail because he gave his side of the story in his bail application, without that he more than likely wouldn't have got bail, this is something that is seen as a highly risky thing to do and could yet come back to bite him big time

 

[steveml]

oh.not at all. not at all. some of the most savage and persistant murderers get bail. it isn't a sort of preview of the verdict.. its merely part of the process..


insane murderers even get bail, if they can manage to hold themselves together during the hearing.

Naturally, the foaming , screaming ones don't..

Yep, it happens all the time that persistent murderers return back to their homes, and join the happy community.

You can't turn a page in the national red-tops without reading about it.

They really need to do something about it.

 

[steveml]

Oscar got bail because he gave his side of the story in his bail application, without that he more than likely wouldn't have got bail, this is something that is seen as a highly risky thing to do and could yet come back to bite him big time

That's entirely his choice.

He exercised his rights, no different than you or I would be entitled to do.

 

[Trooper]

Oscar got bail because he gave his side of the story in his bail application, without that he more than likely wouldn't have got bail, this is something that is seen as a highly risky thing to do and could yet come back to bite him big time

I can see that happening already, James..


its like a trainwreck. slow, inexorable and inevitable.

 

[steveml]

oh.not at all. not at all. some of the most savage and persistant murderers get bail. it isn't a sort of preview of the verdict.. its merely part of the process..


insane murderers even get bail, if they can manage to hold themselves together during the hearing.

Naturally, the foaming , screaming ones don't..

There's no mandate for pre-trial punishment however protection to the community is one of the main foundations in granting bail.

I'd be interested to hear of a recent persistent murderer that was granted bail, other than being sent to a secure unit.

 

[Viper]

It was Judge Masipa's take on it. She granted bail :facepalm:

I'll refer to The Daily Star next time. :wink:

Anyhow, I'm not going to let this become a peeing contest, as there are far more interesting parts of the trial to consider.

That's entirely his choice.

He exercised his rights, no different than you or I would be entitled to do.

Many that did not follow the case from the start are not aware of the fact that OP absolutely did not have to give an affidavit. If he had not be would have a clean palet today to tell his story based on all of the investigations results, and obviously he has had to make some damning changes. What many are trying to explain is that OP desperately wanted to get out of jail on bail while waiting for the trial. In SA it would be highly irregular for an accused murderer to receive bail unless he told his story to the magistrate or had his attorneys draft an affidavit. Many are also trying to explain that the magistrate was in a difficult position with OP because of his national popularity at the time, if he had held him to trial the public would feel sorry for what OP might be experiencing. So granting bail with very strict conditions to prevent him from flee the country was viewed by most as the right decision.

 

[Trooper]

that bail affidavit, is a bonus to Nel that even he couldn't have dreamed about..


its got everything in it, except pink lemonade..

 

[james83]

I can see that happening already, James..


its like a trainwreck. slow, inexorable and inevitable.

Yeah my gut feeling is Nel is going to destroy Pistorius when he takes the stand, i'd be amazed if Oscar can sleep at night right now.

 

[Trooper]

Many that did not follow the case from the start are not aware of the fact that OP absolutely did not have to give an affidavit. If he had not be would have a clean palet today to tell his story based on all of the investigations results, and obviously he has had to make some damning changes. What many are trying to explain is that OP desperately wanted to get out of jail on bail while waiting for the trial. In SA it would be highly irregular for an accused murderer to receive bail unless he told his story to the magistrate or had his attorneys draft an affidavit. Many are also trying to explain that the magistrate was in a difficult position with OP because of his national popularity at the time, if he had held him to trial the public would feel sorry for what OP might be experiencing. So granting bail with very strict conditions to prevent him from flee the country was viewed by most as the right decision.

Oscar wasn't willing to take the risk that his Barristers assurances to the court would be enough, and I have often thought that Roux didn't do his best work on that affidavit .. it has enough holes to drive the Blue Train from Pretoria to Capetown through it, and back again.

but thems the breaks.. an affidavit, or no bail. . but it wasn't an affidavit I would like put up for me. under no circumstances whatsoever..

no wonder Desmond Nair granted bail.. . it had enough in it to tie Oscar up in knots for the rest of his life.

 

[steveml]

Many that did not follow the case from the start are not aware of the fact that OP absolutely did not have to give an affidavit. If he had not be would have a clean palet today to tell his story based on all of the investigations results, and obviously he has had to make some damning changes. What many are trying to explain is that OP desperately wanted to get out of jail on bail while waiting for the trial. In SA it would be highly irregular for an accused murderer to receive bail unless he told his story to the magistrate or had his attorneys draft an affidavit. Many are also trying to explain that the magistrate was in a difficult position with OP because of his national popularity at the time, if he had held him to trial the public would feel sorry for what OP might be experiencing. So granting bail with very strict conditions to prevent him from flee the country was viewed by most as the right decision.

That's correct.

In essence there's far more opportunity for the state to prove his story wrong. I'm ok with that.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Thanks .This is good . I go for a quick coffee and come back to all this chat . No need to bother reading up on the bail now

 

[Really?]

Visagie killed his daughter. He can't bring her back.

Pistorius killed his girlfriend. He's replaced her already.

:gthanks:

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Thanks .This is good . I go for a quick coffee and come back to all this chat . No need to bother reading up on the bail now

Whilst I go out for lunch as well can you guys please sort out why he was claimed he was on the left hand side of the bed that night please .because my view is the defence scored a home goal .

TIA