Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[Gbtaketwo]

Dontcha know, offshore accounts don't exist... that's why people have them, lol.

They do on Dongles though . Where on earth did that disappear to ?

 

[Duchy]

Ah, imo, the case has been made OP is a man who carries with him a sense of entitlement, is majorly self-involved with an inflated ego, who does what he wants, how he wants, when he wants, with no regard to where he is, nor who he is with. Nevermind his rages and his love of weapons. I certainly don't see him as a disadvantaged man with a severe disability.

IF OP always was in fear and felt vulnerable, why did he not hire bodyguards???

He said that he does not consider himself disabled at all....think it was in You Tube video 'Fastest man on no legs'.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Good analysis of opportunities. Not knowing what the duvet blood spots looks like is a difficulty... (in the photo the wall spots looked like dots to me, not smears or drips etc...not sure I have a guess about those right yet.)

Assuming it IS Reeva's blood, my initial guess is that the duvet could have ended up on the floor during any one of the three chances you mention - grabbing at it in panic, or when flailing by to the balcony or when looking for the phone to use.

Then the blood spots could have landed when he was going past, carrying RS.
Just MOO.

He didn't state that he left the bathroom to look for his phone only that he left to open the door .
He could have thrown the duvet on the floor on any of the prior visits but that wouldn't account for the blood because on the prior visits he hadn't opened the door yet and there was not suppose to be blood anywhere in the bedroom to get transference .
If it was when he carried her it couldn't have got on the underside of the duvet
No doubt he will add to his statement in court to explain it away . I will be listening very carefully lol

 

[screecher]

I just feel like to claim someone that is missing both legs is not disabled is just a plain biased denial of reality. Of course he is disabled.

IMO, OP's double amputations do not/have not made him physically disabled. He is physically capable, ABLE to do everything and more than the average bloke. Period.


"Of course he is disabled." Psychology and emotionally disabled...absolutely. And there's no disputing that. Nor is there any remedy for those disabilities.

IMO

 

[Duchy]

We're not talking about running a race with prosthetics on, we're talking about responding to a perceived threat in the middle of the night, in the dark, with no prosthetics on.

So, yeah, I would definitely say it factors in. And besides, if it's even reasonably possibly true that Oscar felt vulnerable as he said, then it has to be accepted.

Accepted maybe but not an excuse for ignoring the rules concerning owning a firearm.

 

[Viper]

Trying to believe in OP's version of events reminds me of a saying my father would use .
If it smells like a rat ,looks like a rat then it probably is a rat !!

In this case I like Micky Rourke's line in the movie Body Heat when he was cautioning another person about commiting a serious crime:

"Any time you try a decent crime, you got fifty ways you're gonna mess up. If you think of twenty-five of them, then you're a genius... and you ain't no genius."

In this case the DT Team put together what they could given what OP had handed them.

 

[Mango33]

He didn't state that he left the bathroom to look for his phone only that he left to open the door .
He could have thrown the duvet on the floor on any of the prior visits but that wouldn't account for the blood because on the prior visits he hadn't opened the door yet and there was not suppose to be blood anywhere in the bedroom to get transference .
If it was when he carried her it couldn't have got on the underside of the duvet
No doubt he will add to his statement in court to explain it away . I will be listening very carefully lol

Oh you are right, it wasn't a phone search, it was opening the door.

How do you know it was on the underside of the duvet? I missed that. Must have been focusing too much on the photos.. I will have to listen more carefully too!

 

[Val1]

The duvet is a mystery to me at the moment .
I have been reading OP's statement through again .
Sequence of events after he shot through the door was that he first went back to the bed and noticed Reeva wasn't there . Could he have thrown the duvet back then ?
Second return to the bedroom was to scream from the balcony and put his legs on .
Third return to the bedroom was to get his cricket bat .
Following this he broke the door down and then dragged Reeva out of the bathroom . This is an important thing to bear in mind because until this point he had not been near any blood.
Importantly he then states that made the phone calls and then left Reeva again to go downstairs to open the door for people to get in .
Next he returned upstairs to pick Reeva up and bring her downstairs.
This is all very important because there is only one opportunity for him to touch the duvet after opening the door and pulling her out and that was when he said he went downstairs to open the door .
So what I would like to know is verify is what type of blood marks were on the duvet and the wall above the bed as i can't see how they could have got there TiA
If they are smear type marks I think they could have been dismissed by the fact that he could say he was looking for his bedroom keys assuming they were not in the door ,any other type of blood marks would be more difficult to explain away unless of course it was not Reeva's blood

Hmm, but wasn't it still pitch black in the bedroom until he got the bat(his third trip I believe, assuming you believe his version) so how would he know she wasn't there, hiding from whoever had been firing the gun because if she thought there was an intruder it could have been him/her coming into the bedroom, unless the light was already on and OP could see the empty bed...

However, if it was me and my husband had gone running after someone and there'd been shots fired, not knowing who had shot who, I'd have at least escaped through the patio doors by then if I couldn't get through the bedroom door and I'd be screaming bloody murder for someone to help us.

 

[Duchy]

He excelled on an Olympic running track with purpose designed prostheses. Not remotely relevant to standing on a few inches of bone below his knees in the middle of the night facing what he may have believed was an intruder.

Shouldn't use a firearm unless he is wearing his prostheses then IMO. With owning a firearm come responsibilities. That's why he took the written tests. He accepted those responsibilities unconditionally.

 

[Duchy]

And in his mind, seemingly firmly on guns a lot of the time, maybe he thought he was facing an armed intruder behind a door as capable of firing at him as he was of firing at them. So we really can't know how safe he perceived himself to be, if his story is true.

Doesn't matter how safe he perceived himself to be. He has a responsibility to abide by the rules concerning owning a firearm. He didn't.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Oh you are right, it wasn't a phone search, it was opening the door.

How do you know it was on the underside of the duvet? I missed that. Must have been focusing too much on the photos.. I will have to listen more carefully too!

I think it may have been the photographers evidence . He said something about he saw some blood and then turned it over and found more .? Could be wrong though .
I can only surmise that the blood above the bed must be a smear because if it were blood spray from carrying her through the room I would have expected Nel to question the forensics guy about it .

 

[steveml]

No one is disputing that - it's the level of disability that I believe is arguable. 'Severely disabled' is not the same thing as disabled. He himself has stated he has mobility without his prostheses but there are plenty of people with limited or no mobility that aren't amputees at all. There's also a difference between a developed disablement and a disability that is congenital.


Well, I'm not a scoffer for a start. OP fought for many, many years to be seen as equal to someone who is able-bodied in the sports world. Now, he wants special consideration due to his disability - even though he has greater mobility without his prostheses than the person I'm married to - but he still had other choices. He chose to advance on a room where he believed there was an intruder and shoot four times with an immensely deadly choice of ammunition. Stumps or not, I can't believe he didn't intend to kill whomever was in the toilet. Therefore, his disability is a moot point for me.

MOO

I agree with the sentiments regarding the disability Kate.

I'm of the opinion that OP's disability would not be as debilitating on the basis that the man is an Olympic athlete.

Most of his year is spent developing power, stamina, balance, speed, increasing muscle mass, response time etc. With all these factors and more taken into account it's quite a stretch to then suggest a high level of vulnerability.

I have little to no experience in these matters, which Is why I mentioned I'm ok with people as long as their view remains consistent prior and during the shooting.

With regard to the case, I'm trying to remember to base my opinion on the fact that he would be very mobile and competent.

 

[Trooper]

there is NO blood on Oscar until he breaks down the door with the cricket.. .. the blood is contained behind the locked door..

and since he has ALREADY done 3 runs to the bedroom, one to sit on the bed and realize Reeva isn't in it, one to yelp from the balcony, and turn on the lights... the next one to put on his prosthetics and grab the cricket bat..

from then on, all his activity is in the bathroom, whacking down the door, hunting for the key, releasing the door, dragging Reeva out, and then carrying her downstairs..

NO bedroom stuff, after the toilet door is unlocked = there should be no blood anywhere in the bedroom.

 

[Mango33]

I think it may have been the photographers evidence . He said something about he saw some blood and then turned it over and found more .? Could be wrong though .
I can only surmise that the blood above the bed must be a smear because if it were blood spray from carrying her through the room I would have expected Nel to question the forensics guy about it .

yes, i think we won't be able to make a definite determination of the blood spots/smears from those photos on the courtroom screen.

From what I remembered Van Staden said he opened up the duvet the see if there was any more blood, suggesting that the blood he saw was on the top of it.

But it clearly did not bolster Nel's case or he would have mentioned it.

 

[Trooper]

yes, i think we won't be able to make a definite determination of the blood spots/smears from those photos on the courtroom screen.

From what I remembered Van Staden said he opened up the duvet the see if there was any more blood, suggesting that the blood he saw was on the top of it.

But it clearly did not bolster Nel's case or he would have mentioned it.

ah well.. don't forget.. Oscars expert witnesses will have to make all this splatter , drip and spray work for Oscars story .. and of course, Nel gets to x-examine them, with all the time in the world to do it...

Nel is a terrific nit picker, btw..

 

[Viper]

there is NO blood on Oscar until he breaks down the door with the cricket.. .. the blood is contained behind the locked door..

and since he has ALREADY done 3 runs to the bedroom, one to sit on the bed and realize Reeva isn't in it, one to yelp from the balcony, and turn on the lights... the next one to put on his prosthetics and grab the cricket bat..

from then on, all his activity is in the bathroom, whacking down the door, hunting for the key, releasing the door, dragging Reeva out, and then carrying her downstairs..

NO bedroom stuff, after the toilet door is unlocked = there should be no blood anywhere in the bedroom.

Ugh! So many things in evidence that Nel is holding back on telling us what the represent, the suspence is killing me! :smile:

Blood on the wall by the bed, as so many are pondering, is so unexplainable if you use OPs story. Arterial spurt does not do it for me because if that were the source it would leave a trail on the floor leading to the wall as it shot out like a water hose does. Someone was standing there and cast off blood. Perhaps someone with a bloody nose or a pellet wound to his shoulder went there to get his gun!!!

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Hmm, but wasn't it still pitch black in the bedroom until he got the bat(his third trip I believe, assuming you believe his version) so how would he know she wasn't there, hiding from whoever had been firing the gun because if she thought there was an intruder it could have been him/her coming into the bedroom, unless the light was already on and OP could see the empty bed...

However, if it was me and my husband had gone running after someone and there'd been shots fired, not knowing who had shot who, I'd have at least escaped through the patio doors by then if I couldn't get through the bedroom door and I'd be screaming bloody murder for someone to help us.

I know there is the benefit of doubt ,but I really don't believe his statement and think it is more likely that it was just crafted around the events .
Only running through his version to see if I can find any more unbelievable things about
And also I think I would have taken my chances and jumped off the balcony lol

 

[Trooper]

and, Oscar himself will have to make all the same stuff tell his story, too.. the missing phone, the phone calls themselves, the balcony call,... the sound sleep from 10 to 3.00 ... and so on.....

going to be a bit odd if Oscar can hear a non existent noise, 10 meters away, and be completely deaf to the real noise of a woman screaming, screaming and screaming 62 centimeters away. that's a very neat trick..

 

[Trooper]

Ugh! So many things in evidence that Nel is holding back on telling us what the represent, the suspence is killing me! :smile:

Blood on the wall by the bed, as so many are pondering, is so unexplainable if you use OPs story. Arterial spurt does not do it for me because if that were the source it would leave a trail on the floor leading to the wall as it shot out like a water hose does. Someone was standing there and cast off blood. Perhaps someone with a bloody nose or a pellet wound to his shoulder went there to get his gun!!!

that's the beauty of x-examine.!!... Nel doesn't want the story from the states witness.. their job and his was to have it tabled as evidence..

its Oscars story.. he can tell it to the judge..

 

[screecher]

I doubt they claimed it just because it was in a magazine... more likely because the article stated that OP said it himself. So unless you're claiming the state knew weeks before the murder to have this interview done....

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/last-oscar-pistorius-interview-before-1723955

The conclusion is the same. The state were wrong.

I'm sure the SA state have every power available to check the background information for a citizen. Certainly far more than the a glossy magazine or The Daily Mirror. :facepalm:

BBM

Soooo, once again, OP tells falsehoods (lies) once again.

Shining example of an upstanding fine man. :floorlaugh: