Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[Viper]

All his actions make sense including not identifying who was in the toilet and firing 4 times?.

:goodpost: :loveyou: :floorlaugh:

 

[Cherwell]

Ok, I read the plea explanation again - so yeah, he heard a noise in the bathroom that he thought was an intruder, believing Reeva was in bed. Scared, feeling vulnerable, believing he couldn't get Reeva and him out his bedroom quickly and safely he grabbed his gun and headed for the bathroom to defend himself and Reeva. Hears noise from toilet and believes intruders are in there and are about to come out and shoot him and Reeva.

I still don't find that inherently nonsensical or impossible if he really believed there was a burglar in his bathroom.

There are parts of it I can't quite accept without further explanation but on whole it is a believable scenario to me, certainly not impossible, and the state certainly hasn't given us evidence of even a plausible alternative.

I still don't understand why you think he would have a problem about leaving the bedroom. As I noted before, the exit door was only a few steps away, and he could have locked the door behind them, trapping the intruder in the bedroom suite.

 

[Mango33]

If the duvet was on the floor (presumably at the bottom of the bed) where were his prosthetics? I thought they were supposed to be kept at the bottom of the bed but Samantha Taylor says he always had them at the side of the bed.

If they threw the duvet off because it was such a hot night then if the prosthetics were at the base of the bed, the duvet would surely have covered them making it harder for OP to find them.

Yes, that is what Samantha said.
I had been thinking the duvet had ended up on the floor after the shooting. Somehow in the panic of running from the bathroom to bedroom and back.

 

[BritsKate]

I just feel like to claim someone that is missing both legs is not disabled is just a plain biased denial of reality. Of course he is disabled.

No one is disputing that - it's the level of disability that I believe is arguable. 'Severely disabled' is not the same thing as disabled. He himself has stated he has mobility without his prostheses but there are plenty of people with limited or no mobility that aren't amputees at all. There's also a difference between a developed disablement and a disability that is congenital.

I also remember when OP was denied the chance to run in the Olympics because his blades gave him an advantage over able bodied runners how people scoffed at the idea that a man without legs could have any kind of advantage over people with legs. My how the tides have turned!

Well, I'm not a scoffer for a start. OP fought for many, many years to be seen as equal to someone who is able-bodied in the sports world. Now, he wants special consideration due to his disability - even though he has greater mobility without his prostheses than the person I'm married to - but he still had other choices. He chose to advance on a room where he believed there was an intruder and shoot four times with an immensely deadly choice of ammunition. Stumps or not, I can't believe he didn't intend to kill whomever was in the toilet. Therefore, his disability is a moot point for me.

MOO

 

[kaos]

No one is disputing that - it's the level of disability that I believe is arguable. 'Severely disabled' is not the same thing as disabled. He himself has stated he has mobility without his prostheses but there are plenty of people with limited or no mobility that aren't amputees at all. There's also a difference between a developed disablement and a disability that is congenital.


Well, I'm not a scoffer for a start. OP fought for many, many years to be seen as equal to someone who is able-bodied in the sports world. Now, he wants special consideration due to his disability - even though he has greater mobility without his prostheses than the person I'm married to - but he still had other choices. He chose to advance on a room where he believed there was an intruder and shoot four times with an immensely deadly choice of ammunition. Stumps or not, I can't believe he didn't intend to kill whomever was in the toilet. Therefore, his disability is a moot point for me.

MOO

That's the bit I can't get passed. Even if he didn't intend to kill Reeva, the mere fact that he'd had a weapon loaded with those black talon bullets and shot them through the toilet door at somebody he believed was an intruder, still means to me he had the intent to kill somebody.

 

[Cherwell]

How close is Mrs. Van der Merwe in relation to OP and in relation to the distance of the other neighbors we've heard from so far? I know the Stipp's are the closest and the Burgers were much further. What about VDM? Thanks.

There's a graphic map showing the layout of the estate, and giving the names and locations of some of the neighbours. I've posted the link before, I'll try and find it again.

Here it is

http://www.citypress.co.za/multimedia/graphic-what-did-oscar-pistorius-neighbours-hear/

click on the link on the page to download a larger version

 

[Carol70]

The problem isn't which side RS may have gotten out of bed, it's that OP was within a foot or two of the right side of the bed when he first came in with the fan/s before he said he closed the doors, blinds, and curtains and yet didn't notice her gone AND when he went to retrieve his gun from under the left side of the bed, which would entail having his face right beside the mattress, still didn't notice that the bed was empty. Just seems implausible what with the duvet on the floor and nothing but a light coloured sheet and a few pillows on the bed because if it was so hot that he needed to bring the fans in to blow on them, surely the duvet had already been kicked to the floor. As for the slippers, I'd say they're a non-starter simply because they were on the wrong side of the bed to start with, if you believe OP's story about which side he had been sleeping on.

Ahhh thank you..I see what you mean!

 

[Cherwell]

I was pointing out the factual error in the statement that Visagie was acquitted. He wasn't. He wasn't prosecuted.

Visagie killed his daughter. He can't bring her back.

Pistorius killed his girlfriend. He's replaced her already.

 

[kaos]

Visagie killed his daughter. He can't bring her back.

Pistorius killed his girlfriend. He's replaced her already.

And also fought to be allowed to compete within a month or two of her death.

 

[Carol70]

Yes, that is what Samantha said.
I had been thinking the duvet had ended up on the floor after the shooting. Somehow in the panic of running from the bathroom to bedroom and back.

I think so too. I can't see how he would have been able to run from the balcony and around the room (looking for legs, phones, bat etc) with the duvet laying in the middle, he would have seen his arse very quick as it was initially a big crumpled heap on the floor before it was laid out flat by photogs.

 

[kittychi]

Nel claimed OP had his own house in Italy, and quoted from an article in Sarie magazine. Roux indicated this was nonsense, and that was proved to be the case.

It was silly really, it just became a point scoring contest for the state in which they lost. Well, they didn't lose really, they achieved exactly what they wanted and just courted further public opinion.

Eeh, the games these people play. :notgood:

:waitasec: Can you please provide when and where was this proved? I missed that somewhere.

TIA

 

[Carol70]

There's a graphic map showing the layout of the estate, and giving the names and locations of some of the neighbours. I've posted the link before, I'll try and find it again.

Here it is

http://www.citypress.co.za/multimedia/graphic-what-did-oscar-pistorius-neighbours-hear/

click on the link on the page to download a larger version

Thanks so much, guess we will be hearing from more neighbors then.

 

[DebinGA]

There's a graphic map showing the layout of the estate, and giving the names and locations of some of the neighbours. I've posted the link before, I'll try and find it again.

Here it is

http://www.citypress.co.za/multimedia/graphic-what-did-oscar-pistorius-neighbours-hear/

click on the link on the page to download a larger version

Very helpful. Is the Stipps' home marked and I'm missing it?

 

[Carol70]

Very helpful. Is the Stipps' home marked and I'm missing it?

It's not because they have put OP face and the text over the area where they stay so you can't see their place.

 

[Val1]

I think so too. I can't see how he would have been able to run from the balcony and around the room (looking for legs, phones, bat etc) with the duvet laying in the middle, he would have seen his arse very quick as it was initially a big crumpled heap on the floor before it was laid out flat by photogs.

Unless he was the one that rolled over to the other side after closing the patio doors etc to muffle any sounds, to get his gun.... to go after RS. It seems those who are claiming OP innocent until proven guilty are not even looking at the possibility that OP could have made up his version of events. Some just can't see past his "golden boy" image.

Kind of like the foreman on the JA trial, he just couldn't see past the poor little girl(who was not only almost 30 but had finally admitted, after giving 3 different fairy tales, to viciously murdering her "love of her life") that she was portraying in front of him. The show she put on for the jury was really something... as soon as they left the room, lol!

Heck, since Stander was on OP's speed dial and he was the one in charge of security, I'm sure that pesky earlier call about a domestic disturbance will never see the official light of day, let alone Baba's mobile phone records from the buggy.

That said, I don't doubt OP's remorse at all, because in hindsight he must really be kicking himself for screwing up his life but that doesn't change what he did which was kill an innocent woman.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Yes, that is what Samantha said.
I had been thinking the duvet had ended up on the floor after the shooting. Somehow in the panic of running from the bathroom to bedroom and back.

The duvet is a mystery to me at the moment .
I have been reading OP's statement through again .
Sequence of events after he shot through the door was that he first went back to the bed and noticed Reeva wasn't there . Could he have thrown the duvet back then ?
Second return to the bedroom was to scream from the balcony and put his legs on .
Third return to the bedroom was to get his cricket bat .
Following this he broke the door down and then dragged Reeva out of the bathroom . This is an important thing to bear in mind because until this point he had not been near any blood.
Importantly he then states that made the phone calls and then left Reeva again to go downstairs to open the door for people to get in .
Next he returned upstairs to pick Reeva up and bring her downstairs.
This is all very important because there is only one opportunity for him to touch the duvet after opening the door and pulling her out and that was when he said he went downstairs to open the door .
So what I would like to know is verify is what type of blood marks were on the duvet and the wall above the bed as i can't see how they could have got there TiA
If they are smear type marks I think they could have been dismissed by the fact that he could say he was looking for his bedroom keys assuming they were not in the door ,any other type of blood marks would be more difficult to explain away unless of course it was not Reeva's blood

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Unless he was the one that rolled over to the other side after closing the patio doors etc to muffle any sounds, to get his gun.... to go after RS. It seems those who are claiming OP innocent until proven guilty are not even looking at the possibility that OP could have made up his version of events. Some just can't see past his "golden boy" image.

Kind of like the foreman on the JA trial, he just couldn't see past the poor little girl(who was not only almost 30 but had finally admitted, after giving 3 different fairy tales, to viciously murdering her "love of her life") that she was portraying in front of him. The show she put on for the jury was really something... as soon as they left the room, lol!

Heck, since Stander was on OP's speed dial and he was the one in charge of security, I'm sure that pesky earlier call about a domestic disturbance will never see the official light of day, let alone Baba's mobile phone records from the buggy.

That said, I don't doubt OP's remorse at all, because in hindsight he must really be kicking himself for screwing up his life but that doesn't change what he did which was kill an innocent woman.

Trying to believe in OP's version of events reminds me of a saying my father would use .
If it smells like a rat ,looks like a rat then it probably is a rat !!

 

[Val1]

:waitasec: Can you please provide when and where was this proved? I missed that somewhere.

TIA

Dontcha know, offshore accounts don't exist... that's why people have them, lol.

 

[Duchy]

I think there is a good case for that no matter who is telling the truth.

If that is the case then there would be questions, in the tests he had to take in order to get a gun, reflecting his disabled status surely?

Eg. You are disabled and feel more vulnerable than people who are not disabled....scenario......would you open fire?

Answer 'yes' instead of 'no'.

 

[Mango33]

The duvet is a mystery to me at the moment .
I have been reading OP's statement through again .
Sequence of events after he shot through the door was that he first went back to the bed and noticed Reeva wasn't there . Could he have thrown the duvet back then ?
Second return to the bedroom was to scream from the balcony and put his legs on .
Third return to the bedroom was to get his cricket bat .
Following this he broke the door down and then dragged Reeva out of the bathroom . This is an important thing to bear in mind because until this point he had not been near any blood.
Importantly he then states that made the phone calls and then left Reeva again to go downstairs to open the door for people to get in .
Next he returned upstairs to pick Reeva up and bring her downstairs.
This is all very important because there is only one opportunity for him to touch the duvet after opening the door and pulling her out and that was when he said he went downstairs to open the door .
So what I would like to know is verify is what type of blood marks were on the duvet and the wall above the bed as i can't see how they could have got there TiA
If they are smear type marks I think they could have been dismissed by the fact that he could say he was looking for his bedroom keys assuming they were not in the door ,any other type of blood marks would be more difficult to explain away unless of course it was not Reeva's blood

Good analysis of opportunities. Not knowing what the duvet blood spots looks like is a difficulty... (in the photo the wall spots looked like dots to me, not smears or drips etc...not sure I have a guess about those right yet.)

Assuming it IS Reeva's blood, my initial guess is that the duvet could have ended up on the floor during any one of the three chances you mention - grabbing at it in panic, or when flailing by to the balcony or when looking for the phone to use.

Then the blood spots could have landed when he was going past, carrying RS.
Just MOO.