Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15
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Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3
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Boytwnmom
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implausible statement was this:
Honestly, when I read that I was convinced he was guilty. So, while he was in the bedroom he KNEW there was an intruder. He then retreives his gun, leaves the room, goes down the hall and only then yells to Reeva to call the police. Really? Would anyone do that? Or would basically every other person in the world, while still in the bedroom, wake their partner to let them know there was an intruder and to call the police?
Honestly, when I read that I was convinced he was guilty. So, while he was in the bedroom he KNEW there was an intruder. He then retreives his gun, leaves the room, goes down the hall and only then yells to Reeva to call the police. Really? Would anyone do that? Or would basically every other person in the world, while still in the bedroom, wake their partner to let them know there was an intruder and to call the police?
Cherwell
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But admitting that he spoke to her just makes it all the more implausible that he wouldn't say anything to her about any suspicion of a break-in.
Here's a good list of 10 questions about what may be asked of Pistorius in the court today (hopefully!).
http://ewn.co.za/2014/03/27/What-will-Gerrie-Nel-ask-Oscar-Pistorius
Barry Bateman takes a look at some of the questions, from both the state and the defence, Pistorius might have to answer when he enters the witness box.
1) Why did you not tell the bail court you spoke to Steenkamp shortly before killing her?
In the bail application, Pistorius stated that early on the morning of 14 February he woke up, went on to the balcony to bring “the fan” in, and close the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. It was then he claims to have heard a noise in the bathroom.
In his plea explanation submitted on day one of the trial, Pistorius added, "During the early hours of the morning I brought two fans in from the balcony. I had shortly before spoken to Reeva who was in bed beside me.”
In the same way defence advocate Barry Roux questioned discrepancies in the first and second statements of neighbours, prosecutor Gerrie Nel is likely to question this important fact.
But is it a case of the accused tailoring his version? Why did he not to mention this in the bail application?
What it seems show is that Pistorius knew his girlfriend was awake at the time he charged at the perceived threat.
<modsnip>
It goes on...
I would add
11. Why did you shot out of the sunroof, did that not show lack of respect fro the law?
If he says he did shoot, thats admitting a misdemeanor, and if he says he did not them it adds to his lack of credibility.
12. Broken items, jeans, broken doors...
13. Restaurant shooting, why did you get others to cover for you?
:seeya:
http://ewn.co.za/2014/03/27/What-will-Gerrie-Nel-ask-Oscar-Pistorius
Barry Bateman takes a look at some of the questions, from both the state and the defence, Pistorius might have to answer when he enters the witness box.
1) Why did you not tell the bail court you spoke to Steenkamp shortly before killing her?
In the bail application, Pistorius stated that early on the morning of 14 February he woke up, went on to the balcony to bring “the fan” in, and close the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. It was then he claims to have heard a noise in the bathroom.
In his plea explanation submitted on day one of the trial, Pistorius added, "During the early hours of the morning I brought two fans in from the balcony. I had shortly before spoken to Reeva who was in bed beside me.”
In the same way defence advocate Barry Roux questioned discrepancies in the first and second statements of neighbours, prosecutor Gerrie Nel is likely to question this important fact.
But is it a case of the accused tailoring his version? Why did he not to mention this in the bail application?
What it seems show is that Pistorius knew his girlfriend was awake at the time he charged at the perceived threat.
<modsnip>
It goes on...
I would add
11. Why did you shot out of the sunroof, did that not show lack of respect fro the law?
If he says he did shoot, thats admitting a misdemeanor, and if he says he did not them it adds to his lack of credibility.
12. Broken items, jeans, broken doors...
13. Restaurant shooting, why did you get others to cover for you?
:seeya:
Could be, or that he's repeated it so often now that it has become his truth. I'm sure Roux doesn't really care as long as OP is convincing.
Thanks, I hadn't been paying attention to all the other initialing.:doh:
Gavel Rash
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"Quote:
16.9 I believed that someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on.
16.10 I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed."
So Oscar wakes from 'his' side of the bed (he says left looking from end of bed) to other side of bed, where his t shirt is lying.... 60cm from the open verandah door, would have almost smashed Reeva in the leg if he swung the fan a bit closer...hears a noise over an above his own rustling noise and has not disturbed the sleeping Reeva mere centimetres from him...nor has he noticed her? says nil, runs to other side of bed again because this is where he was supposed to be sleeping to grab his gun...and still does not disturb the heavily...is she already dead!???!!joke...sleeping Reeva, who must be deaf...really....and runs off to galantly slay the dragon about to piss themselves in fear.......:facepalm:
I am going to love watching this guy squirm....and Nel...he has a gift of cleverly laid evidential cookies...that the defence team will masticate & regurgitate and eventually choke on.
16.9 I believed that someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on.
16.10 I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed."
So Oscar wakes from 'his' side of the bed (he says left looking from end of bed) to other side of bed, where his t shirt is lying.... 60cm from the open verandah door, would have almost smashed Reeva in the leg if he swung the fan a bit closer...hears a noise over an above his own rustling noise and has not disturbed the sleeping Reeva mere centimetres from him...nor has he noticed her? says nil, runs to other side of bed again because this is where he was supposed to be sleeping to grab his gun...and still does not disturb the heavily...is she already dead!???!!joke...sleeping Reeva, who must be deaf...really....and runs off to galantly slay the dragon about to piss themselves in fear.......:facepalm:
I am going to love watching this guy squirm....and Nel...he has a gift of cleverly laid evidential cookies...that the defence team will masticate & regurgitate and eventually choke on.
What I hadn't caught until just now was that OP claims in his affidavit that he yelled twice at RS to "call the police", in 16.10 and 16.13. That seems odd to me, why would he have to tell her again?
Gavel Rash
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..she was deaf and he was disabled...... by his ego.
That is a simple reason. OP had to tell RS to "call the police" twice because he was not sure she heard him the 1st time. You see the solid wood locked toilet door would have made it harder for her to hear him.....
:floorlaugh:
jassy writer
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He wouldn't call the police. Logically, in an estate like that, he would either tell Reeva to press the panic button or call estate security. Security are on site and patrolling. They will take one minute to arrive. Police may well take an hour. OP has a history of disrespecting the police and would certainly not turn to them, over private security, in the event of a suspected intruder.
"Call the police" is the single statement in his affidavit which convinces me he is lying.
"Call the police" is the single statement in his affidavit which convinces me he is lying.
lisasalinger
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I re-watched the State's closing from Tuesday and you may think I'm crazy but it was more interesting to me the 2nd time around. (No, I'm not smoking anything)
I really have to sign off of WS so I can finish up my day 15 blog post before tonight's (tomorrow's) testimony. I just really got the impression that there is something more in those messages... something that is going to come out when Oscar is on the stand. They are all logged in to evidence now. Nel doesn't need to bring up any new witnesses (which he can't anyway), he just needs to confront Oscar with it.
I just finished my day 15 post, if you want to check it out! With only a few hours to spare before the next court day
Going thru all of those call/texts times was actually far more revealing than you think. I uncovered a few nuggets. This is a long post, so bear with me.
Some texts from February 13 read in testimony
12:12pm
RS: Baba I hope you dont mind but I came back to the house to work and do some washing. It will help me a lot to get stuff done and relieve some stress. Ill go through to Joburg at like 3pm. *advertiser censored*
13:10pm
RS: Its a difficult thing to try to console you baba because its a ****** thing and youre a nice guy. I guess these things happen and we can just hope they work out for the best. You are an amazing person with so many blessings and you are more than cared for. Your health and future monetary blessings far outweigh this hurdle I can promise you that 
OP: Thank you so much my angel you dont have to. X Stay tonight if you would like.
15:21pm
OP: Im just finishing off at Ryan(?)
RS: Thank you baba let me know if youd like to spend time with him or Carl. Im sure you maybe feel like some family tonight.
15:46
RS: Angel Im going to go home at like 6pm. Please stay and do whatever it was you were gonna do
Some thoughts about February 13 and what was going on with these two. Oscar called Reeva around 1:02pm and they spoke for 4 minutes or so. She then sends the text message to him about trying to console him. Something obviously happened to him that day that he was upset about.
Then, she had GPRS activity from 13:07 to 13:40 with that last connection lasting for 2 hours. We dont know who she was chatting/texting/communicating with during this GPRS session. Unfortunately, the records that Moller addressed in court for Oscar only started around 5pm that night, so I cant match up his calls to hers from earlier in the day.
Around 3:30pm Oscar seems to be finishing up wherever he is. She suggests that he spend the night with family and then a little while after that states that she is going home around 6pm
The next call I can see is from Oscar who called her at 5:12pm and they talked for one minute. She was still at his house according to the tower. Remember she was planning to leave close to 6pm.
There was some GPRS activity after this, although no additional text messages were mentioned in testimony so not sure if there was any more text communication between the two.
Reeva then calls Oscar at 5:44pm and speaks to him for 2 and half minutes. Her phone is now pinging from a different tower which means she has left his home.
There are no more calls after this, only GPRS activity. Again, no text messages read in testimony so not sure if they are texting each other.
But she was seen coming back thru the Silver Woods security gate some time close to 6pm that night (seen by Baba and seen on CCTV pics) so something made her come back. Oscar arrived home approximately 10 minutes after her. It is not clear if he was expecting her or not based on their exchanges.
So this really has me thinking about how the evening started for them. She may have surprised him or maybe he convinced her to come back. Well have to wait and see.
Oscar says to her earlier in the day to stay tonight if she likes and her response was that she was going home at 6pm, please stay (where he was) and do whatever it was he was going to do.
Based on these messages, it sounds like she was not planning on spending the evening with him, sounds more like he wanted to spend it with her.
Yet, in his bail affidavit he stated that Reeva called him and suggested they have dinner at home and he agreed. Something is not matching up here.
Sooo if there was some back and forth that night about whether or not she was going to stay, and he was already dealing with some bad news from earlier in the day, maybe things were tense. We saw a neatly packed bag on the sofa in his bedroom. And we saw jeans on the ground outside just below the bathroom window. Maybe he did throw those out the window in anger because she wanted to leave. No doubt these messages and times will be dug in to deeper during cross-examination with him.
Did anyone watch live at the start of Tuesday's session?
Did not Nel (and Roux) stipulate things about the phones?
And did not Nel mention about getting back the 5th phone from the DT? And if I heard right, he said he got it back on Feb. 30, 2013. meaning , if correct, DT, had it for 16 days. Its a serious crime to remove evidence from a crime scene, but as I posted a year ago, Pros. and judge(s) ignore this.
Now in looking for the videos, what I see online--unlike all the other videos of the start of a Court day--all the other "start" videos, show everyone standing etc.--is the witness already speaking.
Unlees I have been sleep deprived, and have the wrong day...so I ask did anyone catch this?--Nel talking about getting back that phone from the defense?
Again it's a serious crime to remove crucial evidence from a crime scene. And it seems, if I have the right day, it's been excised from the videos.
If you have a video showing Nel and this stipulaltion about gettting back the 5th phone, please provide the link. Or if you just saw this, please say so.
Thank you.
Did not Nel (and Roux) stipulate things about the phones?
And did not Nel mention about getting back the 5th phone from the DT? And if I heard right, he said he got it back on Feb. 30, 2013. meaning , if correct, DT, had it for 16 days. Its a serious crime to remove evidence from a crime scene, but as I posted a year ago, Pros. and judge(s) ignore this.
Now in looking for the videos, what I see online--unlike all the other videos of the start of a Court day--all the other "start" videos, show everyone standing etc.--is the witness already speaking.
Unlees I have been sleep deprived, and have the wrong day...so I ask did anyone catch this?--Nel talking about getting back that phone from the defense?
Again it's a serious crime to remove crucial evidence from a crime scene. And it seems, if I have the right day, it's been excised from the videos.
If you have a video showing Nel and this stipulaltion about gettting back the 5th phone, please provide the link. Or if you just saw this, please say so.
Thank you.
lisasalinger
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The missing phone was discovered early on in the investigation last year by Officer Moller. Through his process of getting phone records, etc, it was uncovered that Oscar has another phone that was not seized at the scene.
The Defense turned it over on February 26, 2013. We don't know all the "ins and outs" of what happened there but rest assured, it will be discussed when the Defense does their presentation. It is extremely fishy.
It's a very long complicated story but out of the 5 phones total, only 3 of them are active. One belonged to Reeva and two belonged to Oscar. They have rigorously tested that "missing" phone and all of the records pertaining to it have been logged in as evidence for the Judge. Nothing was hidden from video - I think you may have just missed some of it.
P.S. This is the device that was sent to the US to be tested by Apple just a few months ago.
I don't think you answered my actual questions. they were not about the history of this matter only about Tuesday's initial minutes in court.
1. Did anyone see Nel talking about this?
2. since this was at the very start of the day, and it is not on the videos of the first session for that day, it appears to have been excised.
Anyone else online now (or reading later) catch the beginning of Tuesday's Court session?
Or PM me please.
:clap:
Thank you very much. That's fascinating to read.
Whoops, I a dunce about the quoting, and everything! Will get it together soon, apologies Lisa!
Steenkamp really was to about to go home but something very difficult had occured for Pistorius that day and he got her to stay on. His mood on that night is extremely important, surely all his family knew about his "hurdle" too...suspicious.
lisasalinger
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lisasalinger
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to lisasalinger,
Could it have something to do with the previous assault case that was settled just before OP went to trial? I don't know if it's possible to check the dates re that.
It could be. That pending lawsuit had been going on for a while. Whatever it was, Reeva said to him:
"Your health and future monetary blessings far outweigh this hurdle I can promise you that"
So it has something to do with money and she insinuates that his health is more important than worrying over it.
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