Trial Discussion Thread #16

[james83]

It is ridiculous to me that we are expected to take the Oscar screaming like a woman stuff seriously, totally bonkers.
To believe it, it has to be true that he fired the gun, went back to the bedroom and realised Reeva might be in the toilet and then spent around 10 minutes screaming in a male and female voice before finally hitting the door with the bat, i mean really?, i feel like my intelligence is being insulted here.
We then have to believe going by the witness statements that after 2nd "shots" there was complete silence, that once Oscar gets the door open and finds Reeva he then stops screaming, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[james83]

Me? :angel:

No, seriously though, try it.

Take all the witness statements, follow the gun first cricket bat second idea, insert OP where any voices are mentioned, and this fits exactly with OP's statement.

You may think 'coincidence', but here's the biggie - whatever plan OP is suggested to have dreamed up, he could not possibly have guessed the exact information contained with 5 witness testimony's.

...or could he.

*cue three chord suspense noise*

Not sure i follow you, he doesn't have to guess anything about there testimony, he just has to pretend the female screaming never happened and was in fact him.

 

[jay-jay]

BBM

Jay-jay. This is a discussion forum regarding OP's shooting of Reeva, I'm afraid it's impossible not to give him the time of day in this thread, as there would be nothing to debate.

I don't really wish to continue this, but just to point out that 'not giving (him/her/them) the time of day' is a just a figure of speech, and my use of it was in terms of how your emphasis was more on getting justice for OP than it was for getting justice for Reeva. My remark was solely directed at him being a complete waste of space, rather than saying that 'we shouldn't be dicussing him/giving him the time of day' on here (as you seem to have interpreted my meaning to be).

Anyway, I would like to move on from this now .. it's contributing nothing to the discussion .. just that your initial post in this line of discussion warranted the response it got.

 

[jay-jay]

Not sure i follow you, he doesn't have to guess anything about there testimony, he just has to pretend the female screaming never happened and was in fact him.

I can't wait to hear him demonstrating how he screams like a woman opcorn:

 

[Gryffindor]

So he fired 4 times expecting the person in the toilet to stay on there feet and take all 4 bullets to scare them?.

IMO he's covered all bases to maximise hitting his target successfully by aiming centrally at that door x

 

[Val1]

Me? :angel:

No, seriously though, try it.

Take all the witness statements, follow the gun first cricket bat second idea, insert OP where any voices are mentioned, and this fits exactly with OP's statement.

You may think 'coincidence', but here's the biggie - whatever plan OP is suggested to have dreamed up, he could not possibly have guessed the exact information contained with 5 witness testimony's.

...or could he.

*cue three chord suspense noise*

Umm, didn't it take him like 5 days to come up with his version? Surely his defense team had gleaned enough info off the news reports by then to make sure he didn't fall too far into left field? It's not like they didn't know there were witnesses reporting gunshots etc...

 

[steveml]

~snipped~

BIB - The 'delightful Mrs. Stipp' corrected the statement (not really what a deceitful person would do), and since OP has made several changes to his sworn statement, have you suggested at all that he is a deliberate liar and that his account cannot be deemed credible? Why is Mrs. Stipp being vilified, but not OP? In this instance, I would look at who's on trial for murder, and who has very good reason to lie - and it's certainly not Mrs Stipp.

I'll let you know my opinion on OP, although I can't yet as he hasn't spoken.

 

[Really?]

Here are pics of the night of Feb 7th 2013 where OP and Reeva attended the virgin active industry sports awards.......

now look back at her message from feb 8th.....

http://www.galloimages.co.za/event/2013-virgin-active-sport-industry-awards/154179

 

[steveml]

Umm, didn't it take him like 5 days to come up with his version? Surely his defense team had gleaned enough info off the news reports by then to make sure he didn't fall too far into left field? It's not like they didn't know there were witnesses reporting gunshots etc...

It does work though doesn't it, irrespective of an extra fan, or speaking to Reeva?

If you're suggesting his defense team wrote his statement that's up to you.
I have a strong feeling the prosecution won't be claiming that.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong, as we all could.

 

[james83]

---Stipp------------------------------------OP
First bangs?------------------------------First bangs?
Second bangs?---------------------------Called for help on balcony
Hears man call for help--------------------Used bat

What does this tell us?, when Oscar called for help he hadn't used the bat yet, but Stipp had heard both sets of bangs when he heard a man call for help, So Stipp didn't hear the batsounds.

 

[luvmygarden]

Umm, didn't it take him like 5 days to come up with his version? Surely his defense team had gleaned enough info off the news reports by then to make sure he didn't fall too far into left field? It's not like they didn't know there were witnesses reporting gunshots etc...

All he has to know is people called security and create his story from there. He knows the commotion was heard by the neighbors because one showed up at his house. So he creates his story from there. He can't say a few were Reeva and a few screams were his because then he has to admit he heard Reeva scream. He did mess up when he said he spoke to her when he went for the fans but he had to add that so he could say he told Reeve to call police. After all the convenient intruder story had to come in. Who oops shouldn't have said he spoke with her. He seems from other stories he doesn't like to take blame so I have a hard time believing this whole story. He went so far as to tell Reeva not to mention the restaurant gun story. So only 3 months into a relationship he was using her to cover for him.. I bet deep down that didn't set right with her. I would imagine she was ready to part ways with him and just didn't jump on it quick enough.. 2nd chances and all that we humans are willing to offer. Poor Reeva didn't get her 2nd chance.

 

[steveml]

It is ridiculous to me that we are expected to take the Oscar screaming like a woman stuff seriously, totally bonkers.
To believe it, it has to be true that he fired the gun, went back to the bedroom and realised Reeva might be in the toilet and then spent around 10 minutes screaming in a male and female voice before finally hitting the door with the bat, i mean really?, i feel like my intelligence is being insulted here.
We then have to believe going by the witness statements that after 2nd "shots" there was complete silence, that once Oscar gets the door open and finds Reeva he then stops screaming, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Or we have to believe that Reeva was screaming for about 10 minutes. This either has to be before the shooting, during the shooting, or before and during the shooting.
What we know is it cannot be after the shooting.

If anyone is able to provide a valid gap before/during the shots to accommodate this screaming that correlates with the witness statements, it would encourage me to re-think my theory.

 

[Gryffindor]

Just curious: in crime history, how many people have been shot and/or murdered behind a door? Any door. How many known occurrences?

It could be circumstantial but to me it just seems TOO "convenient" that it occurred behind a solid door.

OP: "I didn't have a clue what I was shooting at!??
Oh, sorry everyone. Oops"

 

[james83]

Or we have to believe that Reeva was screaming for about 10 minutes. This either has to be before the shooting, during the shooting, or before and during the shooting.
What we know is it cannot be after the shooting.

If anyone is able to provide a valid gap before/during the shots to accommodate this screaming that correlates with the witness statements, it would encourage me to re-think my theory.

Well what is most likely.
A) The theory that a woman made screams lasting for around 10 minutes that were described by witness's as a woman's scream with descriptions such as terrified and blood curdling because she was locked in a toilet with her enraged partner ouside

B) The theory that a man made screams lasting around 10 minutes that were described by witness's as a woman's scream with description's such as terrified and blood curdling whilst running back and forward from bathroom to bedroom because he believed he may have shot his girlfriend, in the middle of this he shouted help of his balcony which was recognised as being a mans voice by Dr Stipp.

Imagine a man's scream in your head, it's more of a roar isn't it?

 

[soozieqtips]

I'll let you know my opinion on OP, although I can't yet as he hasn't spoken.

BIB - You're splitting hairs. He signed a sworn affidavit, no? He's now changed details that were in it, no? Therefore, if we go by your reasoning that Mrs Stipp is a liar because she 'knowingly' put her name to a document that contained incorrect information... then it stands to reason you must also think OP is a liar for knowingly putting his name to a document that also contained incorrect information. To single out Mrs Stipp as being a deliberate liar, while adding in little sarcastic details (the 'delightful' Mrs Stipp) shows you are not appearing neutral about this case at all, which is what you claim. Add to this the fact you don't address any of OP's 'changes' of account, despite that sworn account unravelling at the seams, and it's not difficult to see you do indeed have a bias, as do most of us. And that's fine, because I'm biased towards his guilt, but then I've never pretended otherwise.

 

[Val1]

It does work though doesn't it, irrespective of an extra fan, or speaking to Reeva?

If you're suggesting his defense team wrote his statement that's up to you.
I have a strong feeling the prosecution won't be claiming that.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong, as we all could.

So now OP is able to craft documents using legalese too? Wow, he really must be a superman....:facepalm:

 

[james83]

Lets not forget this change from the affidavit

2013- i heard a noise and realised someone was in the bathroom
2014- i heard the bathroom window sliding open

Yep, last year when he heard the noise "someone was in the bathroom", but this year when he hears the noise the intruder is only just sliding the window open, and therefore in his mind not even in the bathroom yet, oh dear.

 

[Viper]

Or we have to believe that Reeva was screaming for about 10 minutes. This either has to be before the shooting, during the shooting, or before and during the shooting.
What we know is it cannot be after the shooting.

If anyone is able to provide a valid gap before/during the shots to accommodate this screaming that correlates with the witness statements, it would encourage me to re-think my theory.

What exactly is YOUR theory?

 

[steveml]

---Stipp------------------------------------OP
First bangs?------------------------------First bangs?
Second bangs?---------------------------Called for help on balcony
Hears man call for help--------------------Used bat

What does this tell us?, when Oscar called for help he hadn't used the bat yet, but Stipp had heard both sets of bangs when he heard a man call for help, So Stipp didn't hear the batsounds.

Yes, it wouldn't make sense at all would it, all the gun/bat sequences would have to be different and would not agree with the majority of witness testimonies.

However...

If the screaming was Oscar's it makes absolutely perfect sense. It tells us Johan Stipp heard the shots, then the screaming, then the cricket bat, as per OP's statement.

 

[Viper]

i'm not sure how a conclusion could be any less accurate.

The shots were very precise.

The trajectory moved after the first shot hit reeva's right hip and she fell.

The next 3 shots were all aimed at the same small area near her upper body and head.

Since she was slumped down on the toilet, it defies the evidence and all odds that the killer randomly sprayed bullets and hit her head. He did not.

He did not spray shots randomly. Look at this attached photo.

^^^^this^^^^