Trial Discussion Thread #20 - 14.04.08, Day 18

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We just need another witness that heard the two lots of shots and Reeva screaming...where are they? Ngelethawa is a psychologist who lives right next door, perhaps he also had diminished capacity on the night and never heard a thing! Why on earth didn't Nel call him?...there must be a reason that I hope we get to find out.
Again this makes me feel that the closest witnesses didn't need to be called as the state already had enough..that will come out..slowly.... to convict without them.

That's a good question.

I think it's wishful thinking though. If there are closer witnesses it's probable they either didn't hear or they don't agree with the prosecution. You would always use the nearest witnesses to strengthen your case if it was viable.

I'm sure nobody realistically believes that a neighbour would hear a young lady scream in terror before being intentionally killed,
and then cover it up because the guy next door seems like a nice bloke.
 
Ok, for real last post on the subject, lol.

Again, this is all to do with various diagnoses and whether they affect the level of culpability of an individual or affects their understanding of right from wrong. However, a diagnosis alone of schizophrenia or psychosis, which I believe you are saying you believe OP has, meets the legal requirements for insanity. By definition. Anyone diagnoses with these, genuinely diagnosed, will be found not guilty by reason of insanity, every time. None of this applies to those illnesses, but others that do not involve a break from reality.

It's not even relevant to this case because the defense is not arguing a diminishment in culpability due to mental illness or a lack of understanding of right and wrong due to psychosis. Clearly, OP is completely sane. They are using any potential illnesses or non official issues he may have as an explanation for some of the irrational actions and thoughts he had that night that led to him shooting through a door. The psychosis would come in if he irrationally thought there was an intruder i.e. hallucinated that Reeva was someone else or hallucinated he saw someone he did not or heard someone that wasn't there or the voices in his head told him Reeva was a stranger trying to rob him. Clearly, there was someone in bathroom, making noises so, clearly, in OP's story, he did not hallucinate those.

The defense is not saying he's insane, just that he makes poor choices that are a result of deep seeded, non psychotic issues. The judge will have to use the law to weigh his culpability due to these issues.

OK, very last post on the subject, I promise lol.

For real too, I am only explaining what the defence is trying to achieve by laying the framework of Oscars emotional and irrational fear of introducer as his reason for shooting without checking who was behind the door because his altered mental capacity at that time because of his previous known paranoia of intruders made him do it. I shot at the door because I heard a noise and I have an irrational, non controlled fear and I had to protect Reeva. Yes 'I' said he was psychotic cause that fits 'my' vernacular for a 'tool' like Oscar to shoot someone for his own jolly.

TRUE : They are NOT claiming he is insane...no biological content...they are seeking to establish a claim (4) of a diminished capacity to get his sentenced reduced.

Summary
1. The legal test for insanity in South Africa has a biological component
(ie the presence of mental illness) and a psychological component (the
impairment of cognitive and/or conative functioning).
2. The diagnosis of mental illness falls within the domain of psychiatrists
and psychologists while the assessment of criminal responsibility falls
within the domain of the court.
3. In the defence of automatism the voluntariness of the act is in question.
The person cannot be held criminally liable because the act is committed while he or she is an altered state of consciousness and is
unable to perform goal-directed actions.
4. The defence of non-pathological incapacity allows for temporary
emotional states to be used as grounds for exculpation.
 
Oh but they do > 'South African criminal law now accepts four sources or bases for incapacity: youth, mental
illness or defect,intoxication,and severe emotional stress.'

Yes, you can quote a line from anywhere, but there's got to be some kind of evidence to support a claim. Previous medical reports, meds, doctors prescriptions, drinking problems.
The severe emotional stress has to be proven, the intoxication has to be proven, the mental illness has to be proven.

The DT are not going to waste their time. If there isn't any supporting evidence it'll get thrown out of court quicker than OP on his blades.

They have not made the slightest indication they are going to make an insanity claim or similar.

There's even nothing in the Daily Star.
 
Personally I don't really read much into potential mental illness's, I just think he's very immature.
 
KT, please post your recent long theories in the new thread as they are worthy of comment.
Thank you.
 
I'd like to thank everyone in advance for updating as I'm at work and able to see but unable to hear the live accounts. I rely on you guys during my breaks and you've not let me down yet :)
 
The noise on WAT while waiting to have live feed....irritating! Been AFK since before last weeks break, what has been consensus as to best feed for livestreaming in US?
 
I'm not sure I can watch .. I was sickened by yesterday's performance, quite frankly .. goodness only knows how Reeva's mother, family and friends were feeling .. she really looked quite angry and tense, but still maintained her dignity as always.
 
Crap, don't see anything and only hear a piercing hum.

At WATs
 
There is an article here about the case, written by South African Sandile Memela. Apparently it's caused some fierce reaction, because the writer's also issued an apology to any fellow South Africans he offended.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/07/oscar-pistorius-reeva-steenkamp-black-man


ETA: He actually wrote that back in March but they've republished it?

Thanks for the link. This is exactly what I was referring to earlier, when I said Roux/OP needed to walk a fine line, to avoid an emotional backlash from the judge.


"In a country where the majority of the population is black, we should be concerned about how the business of justice is conducted. We should be concerned that Pistorius' defence lies on this very fact – that it's fine to pump an intruder full of bullets. What is another dead black man? Something in the soul of this nation dies – has died – because of the emotionless way we brush off these killings."
 
You really shouldn't read that crap, its bound to cause you diminished capacity :floorlaugh:
:seeya:

I'm with you on that gavel. :thumb: It was only the once.

Let's see what's in store for today.
 
That screeching whine noise was horrible. On the Telegraph feed it's much nicer - birds twittering again. And hardly any traffic, for some weird reason?
 
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