Trial Discussion Thread #23 - 14.04.11, Day 21

[Britlaws]

I think some of that is to do with simply having something to do while sitting in court instead of just sitting there .. and perhaps he may think that if he sits there writing, he may be less likely to give away certain body language indicators .. he probably thinks the crying and the throwing up type body language goes in his favour but it doesn't, necessarily .. that's not the kind of body language an expert would be looking out for.

I wish I had made a note of when it was at the time as I'll never find it now...but I saw him write one of his notes and literally hurl it at the bloke sat by the pretty blonde lawyer, with a very angry expression on his face. Did anyone else catch this?

 

[lisasalinger]

I really loved how Nel challenged him on the fact that he had a loaded gun, safety removed and was walking TOWARD the noises..

Oscar says he didn't intend to shoot them..

Well then WHAT WERE YOU GOING TO DO

Was he going to have a conversation with these evil people?

Obviously not, he didn't even give them a chance to come out before shooting them.

 

[james83]

I really loved how Nel challenged him on the fact that he had a loaded gun, safety removed and was walking TOWARD the noises..

Oscar says he didn't intend to shoot them..

Well then WHAT WERE YOU GOING TO DO

Was he going to have a conversation with these evil people?

Obviously not, he didn't even give them a chance to come out before shooting them.

He was going to have a nice polite chat with them in the dark before politely asking if they wouldnt mind climbing back out of the window.

 

[Britlaws]

And when somebody is so clearly shown to be a liar, it is an absolute good possibility that he tailored his story TO the other evidence!

I don't know which is worse to be honest, shooting someone dead in a 'red mist' rage set off by something, or lying one's b*tt off in front of your victim's mother.

As for the the firing 4 shots in a moment of panic? then how come he kept the gun straight? In blind panic the recoil would have you either stop after one shot or even if not, the bullet holes would be all over the place. Even with a handgun, you have to keep it steady between shots to end up with all the shots in that close a proximity to eachother!

 

[jay-jay]

He completely proved his BS about the pitch dark state too.

HE testified the LED light gives off light enough so that he had to cover it

Nel also caught him saying he could see the passageway

Oscar, of course, immediately back-peddled

These are not "script errors" they are lies. Let's be genuine here.

The other thing I noticed about the LED light thing is that Nel said to him "when did you notice it" and OP said something about it being when he closed the curtains and turned back to the fans (what??!) .. but anyhow .. the bit I didn't get was .. and I know this myself because I don't like LED lights either and I find them really bright if the room is in darkness so I switch off at the plug point instead of having on standby .. but, you already know that this is something which annoys you when you are trying to sleep .. you sleep in that room every night and it isn't something which you just happen to notice on one particular night after having slept like that in that same room with the same LED light for months/years. How come OP only just noticed that LED on that particular night in question? That's just total nonsense.

 

[DebinGA]

IIRC OP used the phrase "the gunshot went off"... as if he had no part in it. No intention to shoot, no pulling the trigger accidentally, just standing there in terror and somehow the gun "went off".

 

[Viper]

Two glaring trouble spots in OP's current testimony under Nels' CE:

1. Screaming post-shooting
Does one usually scream after one finishes shooting at a suspected intruder? I am reminded of George Zimmerman who claimed HE screamed after shooting Trayvon Martin to death.

Aside from claiming to have screamed after finishing up shooting the person one perceives as a lethal threat in such cases when a scream has been documented and one must claim it as one's own to show one was in fear of one's life, I have not encountered in real life (or film) the shoot-to-kill the threat with post-"having done so" screaming.

The person who fires a gun at a disarmed person, receiving no fire in return or further threat, does not need to scream. True, in OP"s case, he can not see whether or not his threat is armed. However, after shooting four times, OP hears no further movement, receives no verbal threat.

I can think of only two conditions to occasion screaming post-shooting: if one realized one shot the wrong person or if one's gun accidentally went off, then screaming in horror at one's mistake makes sense.

Also, if one started one's scream out of fear of the impending threat against oneself and then reflexively continued to scream before one could ascertain that one had vanquished the threat, screaming makes sense.

None of the above would apply to that moment in which OP claims he screamed. It seems that he, once again, has tailored his account to fit his story. Screams were heard, most likely Reeva's, so he contends, conveniently, that he screamed after shooting through the bathroom door four times, paving the way for the judge to consider that witnesses hearing a woman's screams heard a man's, not Reeva's then, but his.

2. What triggered (sorry) shooting.
He claims to have begun shooting once he was at the bathroom door because of hearing sounds that indicated to him the imagined intruder was going to attack him. Movement noises, noises that portended the imminent bursting forth of a lethally dangerous person triggered his shooting.

I don't find this explanation for shooting (as opposed to just arming himself) a convincing rationale. First, what sort of noise could Reeva have made that would sound like a person about to bust out of the stall?

Second, even if such a noise or any evidence of such an intention had been manifest, how can OP claim inherent in it is a lethal threat?

It is one thing to shoot a person advancing at you with obvious lethal intent, but another to claim the sound of a movement from behind a door is proof of such a threat.

And even if we chalk OP's reaction up to an interpretive leap based on noise or on some visual sign of motion to escape from hiding, after the first shot, what did he hear or see to confirm the need for three more? In reality, what could Reeva have been doing to cause a reasonable person to believe an imagined intruder was about to burst forth and injure or kill him (thereby rendering him no longer able to protect Reeva, meaning she would be tied up etc.)? And since he is still armed, he has a second chance to fire still more shots.

The link below contains the report of his testimony in regard to these two points, post-shooting screaming and rationale to begin shooting.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eva-Steenkamp-accused-tailoring-evidence.html

I enjoyed your post, thank you!

If I may though there is one small mistake, George Zimmerman was screaming for help while Trayvon Martin was on top of him beating him and smashing his head on the cement. George Zimmerman did not scream after he fired the shot that killed Martin.

And from your link is a woman presenting a gift of flowers to OP and hugging him. Obviously OP will be one of those murderers that gets married and has babies while encarcerated for 25 to life. Do SA prison allow conjugal visits? :smile:

 

[IfIMay]

Oscar's right. The State have changed their case and proposals within it numerous times. Is the State actually tailoring its case as per evidence, witnesses and statements???

They have to tailor their THEORY to the evidence. Oscar's not telling the truth. That is what happens in every case where there are not eyewitnesses. The state comes to a conclusion based on evidence, direct and circumstantial.

 

[Britlaws]

The other thing I noticed about the LED light thing is that Nel said to him "when did you notice it" and OP said something about it being when he closed the curtains and turned back to the fans (what??!) .. but anyhow .. the bit I didn't get was .. and I know this myself because I don't like LED lights either and I find them really bright if the room is in darkness so I switch off at the plug point instead of having on standby .. but, you already know that this is something which annoys you when you are trying to sleep .. you sleep in that room every night and it isn't something which you just happen to notice on one particular night after having slept like that in that same room with the same LED light for months/years. How come OP only just noticed that LED on that particular night in question? That's just total nonsense.

If the LED light was directly in his line of sight in bed he might have a point, but he said it didn't illuminate the room at all and he sleeps at right angles to where the light is, so it wouldn't be visible. I turn the LED of the alarm clock on the bedside cabinet down as its right in my line of sight but I cant even see all the lights on the tv, headphone charger, set top box on the chest of drawers at the end of my bed when I am in it. The curtains, fans, LED etc. is all manufactured so he can say he wasn't aware of RS leaving the room.

I was on the fence before he took the stand but its all so implausible.

 

[jay-jay]

I wish I had made a note of when it was at the time as I'll never find it now...but I saw him write one of his notes and literally hurl it at the bloke sat by the pretty blonde lawyer, with a very angry expression on his face. Did anyone else catch this?

I do remember seeing something being thrown at one point .. can't remember if it was OP to one of the DT or vice versa .. it may have been another occasion because I don't remember angry face so much but I do remember thinking it a bit odd at the time! Isn't it annoying when you see these things and can't remember which day/session it was .. it's impossible to find once it's gone unless you really want to sit and watch the whole lot again via youtube!

 

[Magdalyn]

Of course if they were both awake they'd turn on a flipping light!

But some people obviously believe it makes much more sense that she mysteriously slipped out of the other side of the bed, tippy toed to the bathroom, WITH HER CELL PHONE, locked the door in the dark and just stood there

So you're saying you don't buy that she decided to take a 3 a.m. tinkle and simultaneously make a call/check email/Facebook,/whatever.....tippy-toed her way in the dark of a house that is not hers, turned on no lights to find her way in a house she does not live in regularly (but wait. perhaps she used the LED landing beacon to guide her way, before Oscar covered it!), started to wee, heard Oscar shout, cut her urination off toward the end of her stream (to only leave about a teaspoon in her bladder?), bounced up off the toilet, no time to wipe (no used TP in toilet), yanked up her shorts, no noticeable urine odor/spots/drops in shorts from lack of wiping/drip dry/air dry time.....and no noticeable urine in the toilet...and in her fear of the intruder coming towards her, instinct was to place herself within that small, confined space as close to the door as she could and and facing it?

You're a tough customer!

 

[ShadyLady]

Boy....the more I hear OP pathetic voice and hear about his past, the more I detest him. Finally, this man need to be accountable for his actions!!

I really hope fame and money don't buy innocence in SA, like it does in LA.

He is sad because he has been caught. And Bail should never have been given. IMO

 

[Hope4More]

What is at all believable about this man being in a panic about anything? Much less that he was in a panic to "protect" a woman he treated with utter contempt?

 

[Viper]

I wish I had made a note of when it was at the time as I'll never find it now...but I saw him write one of his notes and literally hurl it at the bloke sat by the pretty blonde lawyer, with a very angry expression on his face. Did anyone else catch this?

BIB. I saw what was written on that note. it said, "I'm really mad at your constantly using that stupid accent of yours, and your bubble gum chewing is driving me out of my mind! "Enough already!"

XXOOXX Osca'

 

[minor4th]

Does Roux look like he's put on some weight since cross examination started? lol

 

[BabaJ]

Lol, it's not the same. He says he heard a noise that he thought was an intruder coming out of the toilet. How is that in any way inconsistent with what he said today??

Semantics aside, Nel is wrong when he says he never said anything about someone coming out of the door. That is obviously something he has said before.

Can you please refer to a link? Thank you

 

[james83]

I still cant get over the 4 accidental gunshots :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[ShadyLady]

I still cant get over the 4 accidental gunshots :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Furthermore.....you are in bed with your lover, you hear a window open and someone going into toilette room...and you don't make sure it was not your partner going to the bathroom....but go get your gun and chase and shoot without seeing an intruder????? And you have guard dogs????

 

[Carmelita]

OP was an avid gun enthusiast so it is no surprise that he held the gun steady and had a tight target area. I think the fan blocking the balcony and Reeva being dressed in her day clothes are unanswerable questions if OP’s version of events were the truth and nothing but the truth.

The screaming, whether it was Reeva, OP or a combination of the two is not supported by evidence either way IMO it can only be known that there was screaming.

That said, my read of the judge is that OP will walk with a slap on the wrist and a hug, maybe some mandated anxiety management classes. I hope that I am wrong.

 

[Elemar]

Hello all,

This is my first post on this site so thought I’d introduce myself. I am a criminology graduate, currently on maternity leave and in that time this trial has gripped me! It was through searching for discussion on the trial that I came across this fabulous website.

I’m just going to get straight in to it and the way yesterday's questioning ended really got me thinking. OP said yesterday that the fan was not blocking the exit on to the balcony and that the police had moved it there. He stated that the fan, in relation to the police photo was further towards where the bed sheet is on the floor and I'm sure he said it would have been sitting on top of the quilt, although in his version the quilt was not there. However to me, this contradicts OP’s previous statement that the hind leg of the fan’s tripod stand was actually out on the balcony. From my perspective of the photograph if the fan was sitting where the quilt was on the floor, then the hind leg could not reach on to the balcony. However the fact that Nel did not pick up on this as soon as OP said it surprised me. Maybe it’s just my perspective.

I look forward to further discussing proceedings with you all.