Trial Discussion Thread #27 - 14.04.16, Day 24

[Feynman]

I doubt that this is a lie. Many people use two types of ammunition. One for range shooting, one for protection and actually a third for hunters who use specific ammunition suited to their game.

The gun Oscar used seems to have been his gun for personal safety, it would make sense that he would keep it loaded with bullets that were capable of doing a lot of damage.

If I am at the range I use cheap bullets, but at home I have hollow points that I wouldn't hesitate to shoot at an intruder.

Winchester stopped making Black Talons in 2000. So it’s a little strange that OP would say that they were standard ammo for his 9 mm Parabellum in 2013. However, the sucessor bullets were basically identical (if not more lethal). From Wikipedia: “Winchester discontinued the Black Talon line completely in 2000. The “Ranger SXT” ammunition sold later by Winchester is very similar to the Black Talon though without the black Lubalox coating on the bullet. Among shooters, a running joke is that SXT stands for “Same eXact Thing", though the official branding is “Supreme eXpansion Technology”. However, there are differences in the anatomy of the bullets which become apparent when carefully examined side by side. The hollow point cavity dimensions and angles of the meplat were altered to enhance reliability of expansion, though the basic "reverse taper" design pioneered by the Black Talon was retained.” See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Talon#Current_status

 

[DebinGA]

This has always been a problem for me because i guarantee that any person in the situation Oscar claim's he was in when it dawned on him it might be Reeva in the toilet would be shouting there partner's name over and over at the top of there voice, and the Stipps for one would have certainly heard that.

That's where his tale of moving the fans and closing the balcony doors comes in.

 

[TorisMom003]

Definition of histrionic (adj)

Bing Dictionary
his·tri·on·ic
[ hìstree ónnik ]


1.overdramatic: overdramatic in reaction or behavior
2.relating to acting: relating to acting or actors


Really? Someone is admitting that OP is histrionic? I'm actually surprised by that. Unless of course it means something else to them than it does to me.

 

[TipDog]

1)

[Snipped to just respond to these two points - no disrespect intended.]

I'm not clear on how it is known that she was pressed full height against the stall door at first.

.

I have never been able to believe he would abandon his combat readiness and his gun to get his legs on without knowing if the intruder was dead behind the door, or whether more were coming.

I believe it came out in evidence (in PT's favor) that due to splinters on RS and wound to her hip, it was determined that the sequence of shots were:

1. in the hip while she was standing, either pressed to the door or up very close to it, which caused her to fall back against the magazine rack
2. missed
3. hit arm (which she would have then dropped it immediately)
4. hit webbing in the fingers of the hand she was still holding up to protect head and head

I know the shots are being contested, but this order makes the most sense given her position in death, amount of blood, splinters, etc.

And I so agree with you on the combat training discrepancy. His version is just such hogwash (to me).

 

[Really?]

BIB

Although I very much agree with you about the drama in court, I don't think the judge should ask her to leave.

We must all remember that Aimee had nothing to do with this and OP is her brother. She's hurting, as is the Pistorius family as they fear they are about to lose OP to prison.

And in case anyone here doesn't know (although, I'm betting you all do), SA prisons are infamous for what happens inside them. Going to prison in SA even for 5-10 years can and often does completely destroy the person, if he/she even survives the ordeal.

If you're interested, this is an article that speaks to the human rights issues in the prisons there, especially with respect to HIV and sexual violence: http://www.irinnews.org/report/96461/south-africa-dealing-with-sexual-abuse-in-prison

That is just one article, if you google, there are many, including stories from prisoners who've survived (and they are graphic). Even if OP is treated a little differently due to his disability, he won't be entirely protected, unless you really have want to have faith in an already horribly corrupt system over there.

I'm sure OP is aware of this, as is his family. This may very well be one of the biggest reasons he refuses to accept full blame for any of the charges against him. I really think he and his DT want him to walk with a slap on the wrist and spend no time in jail. And, I'm sure the DT will use his disability at time of sentencing and in future appeals to plead for a lesser sentence.

thanks for that...I have heard some things like that about how terrible (aw) the prisons are there . But moo OP shouldn't get any special treatment.....he has gotten far too much such treatment already.....time to pay the piper IYKWIM......thanks again.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Hey, we need something to fill up the next 2 weeks!!

Am I really supposed to clean my apartment? OMG

 

[minor4th]

Definition of histrionic (adj)

Bing Dictionary
his·tri·on·ic
[ hìstree ónnik ]


1.overdramatic: overdramatic in reaction or behavior
2.relating to acting: relating to acting or actors


Really? Someone is admitting that OP is histrionic? I'm actually surprised by that. Unless of course it means something else to them than it does to me.

It means exactly how you've defined it. And IMO that is an accurate description of Oscar.

 

[TorisMom003]

It means exactly how you've defined it. And IMO that is an accurate description of Oscar.

So then he's acting. The tears, need of the green bucket, the thumbs/other fingers in the ears, covering his eyes, etc are all an act. I've always thought that but was surprised that some that are adamant that OP killed Reeva by accident believe that too.

I don't think that because OP has a physical handicap that he is that way either. I believe he is that way because it has worked for him in the past to get out of a punishment for what he has done wrong.

MOO

 

[weeeva]

Thanks
Why do you think Nel has it on the record about OP stating that he crouched down . I am at a loss to explain this if it wasn't related to the facts pertaining to OP's legs and overall height

I don't recall OP ever saying that. In fact I haven't got much of a clue about anything now. I think this case has burned me out.

 

[Emz73]

Definition of histrionic (adj)

Bing Dictionary
his·tri·on·ic
[ hìstree ónnik ]


1.overdramatic: overdramatic in reaction or behavior
2.relating to acting: relating to acting or actors


Really? Someone is admitting that OP is histrionic? I'm actually surprised by that. Unless of course it means something else to them than it does to me.

That statement confused me too.

I'm just astonised somebody thinks people with physical disabilities are prone to this!!!

No Oscar is prone to it. Nothing to do with having a physical disability.

 

[G.bng]

In OP language yes lol
but
I don't want to believe that for even a second as I would hate to think of him getting off all charges with an automatism defence,for this reason alone I refuse to believe anything other than he took aim and fired.
It would be a travesty of justice if he was aquitted under such circumstances bearing in mind he was claiming putative self defence in the beginning.

I agree, a complete travesty.

It's a very difficult defence plea but the only one that could give OP an acquittal so I think it's the what they are going knowing CH is a given and Murder, even if by transferred intent of the intruder, much too likely. It became evident during OP's cross. "Pointing" not aiming, shooting at the "perceived danger" not at an intruder about to attack, not pressing the trigger, not realising he had pressed the trigger, etc.... and the two days of OP telling his personal story... and all his tears, vomits, etc. with a psychologist having to continually be soothing him, the four rapid shots with no break, etc. And a psychologist coming to testify to his state of mind obligatory for an "involuntary action" defence. A complete travesty if the judge buys it so Nel must refute it.

 

[MissJ]

People with physical disabilities tend to be extremely sensitive and histrionic????

No words.

It means exactly how you've defined it. And IMO that is an accurate description of Oscar.

JMO, he is surely histrionic but you cannot tag that on all people with disabilities. Histrionic can be a personality disorder and sounds offensive when ascribed to persons with disabilities.

 

[TipDog]

Histrionic is exactly the word that has been going through my head about Oscar. Just didn't want to say it out loud because I get scared to post what I really think a lot of times - I'm scared of the reaction I'll get from many other posters.

Don't be, Minor. This is merely a discussion among like minded individuals who don't all agree. But obviously we all have an interest in crime and this trial for various reasons.

So, please don't take any of it personally! :razz:

And I agree with you on the word histrionic. It does describe OP in my mind, especially what I witnessed of his behavior in court.

 

[Feynman]

Did not Mrs. Burger say that the male help help help sounded mocking in tone to her? If so, then it does explain why OP would yell out help before using either the cricket bat or the gun. Reeva was screaming for help while OP was mocking her.

My memory is she said in her own mocking tone to Roux "maybe OP was mocking RS, but you'll have to ask OP about that" - or something to that effect.

 

[minor4th]

So then he's acting. The tears, need of the green bucket, the thumbs/other fingers in the ears, covering his eyes, etc are all an act. I've always thought that but was surprised that some that are adamant that OP killed Reeva by accident believe that too.

I don't think that because OP has a physical handicap that he is that way either. I believe he is that way because it has worked for him in the past to get out of a punishment for what he has done wrong.

MOO

I think he is overly dramatic and his reactions are out of proportion

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I don't recall OP ever saying that. In fact I haven't got much of a clue about anything now. I think this case has burned me out.

I think it burns a lot of people out
It kind of slipped out during cross exam with Nel and he put it on the record
Would take me forever to find a link and embarrassed to admit I don't know how to post links just use them
If I come across it whilst re reading I will try and learn a new skill and find out how to post it

 

[minor4th]

JMO, he is surely histrionic but you cannot tag that on all people with disabilities. Histrionic can be a personality disorder and sounds offensive when ascribed to persons with disabilities.

I didn't say it was related to his disabilities - that was another poster. I have no idea what the pathology behind it is.

 

[G.bng]

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2014-03-19-pistorius-trial-week-two-day-three/#.U06puPldWMM

Yes but in testimony Mangena said they couldn't do as many tests as they may have liked because Black Tallon were very expensive and difficult to find... not surprising since any for sale must be old stock as they are no longer made and probably from collector's stock so they will want to make a neat profit on them.

 

[DebinGA]

It means exactly how you've defined it. And IMO that is an accurate description of Oscar.

Yes, and probably has been this way for years. He may be exaggerating emotions to affect the judge, but it might just be the way he is. One of Reeva's msgs to him mentioned that he rarely seemed happy to her.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I agree, a complete travesty.

It's a very difficult defence plea but the only one that could give OP an acquittal so I think it's the what they are going knowing CH is a given and Murder, even if by transferred intent of the intruder, much too likely. It became evident during OP's cross. "Pointing" not aiming, shooting at the "perceived danger" not at an intruder about to attack, not pressing the trigger, not realising he had pressed the trigger, etc.... and the two days of OP telling his personal story... and all his tears, vomits, etc. with a psychologist having to continually be soothing him, the four rapid shots with no break, etc. And a psychologist coming to testify to his state of mind obligatory for an "involuntary action" defence. A complete travesty if the judge buys it so Nel must refute it.

I am hoping that his psychologist's evidence is as good as his pathologist and his Geologist sorry forensics or whatever he is I forgot
Seriously though the judge seems so smart I can't see her falling for it ( fingers crossed )