Trial Discussion Thread #29

[turaj]

their case isn't over.
if you are watching, nel is using cross to continue his case... he did it with op and dixon

His style makes sense...I found him really boring on direct but now I see what he is doing and hitting it hard in the last 1/2 of the trial is better.

 

[molly333]

Bumping this in hopes of an answer from molly333 who seems to be online now.

I don't know why he didn't ask her. He should have asked. He made a lot of unfounded assumptions that night, obviously, or we wouldn't be here.

But, we can attribute all his actions to fear.

 

[wb180]

I don't know why he didn't ask her. He should have asked. He made a lot of unfounded assumptions that night, obviously, or we wouldn't be here.

But, we can attribute all his actions to fear.

That would be a good argument if he wasn't a liar. The fact that he is lying on the stand means he didn't make any assumptions nor was he fearful.

 

[molly333]

their case isn't over.
if you are watching, nel is using cross to continue his case... he did it with op and dixon

I should have said their case in chief is over.

Remember, the burden of proof is on the Prosecution.

The Defense doesn't have to prove anything.

Prosecutor has the burden of proof and he didn't prove pre-meditation.

His case is over.

 

[Val1]

Sorry I can't be more help, it's just the sky news one (and it's pretty unreliable). I tend to listen to the testimony and read it at the same time.

Yea, I tried using that one and found it so unreliable that I stopped because it wasn't picking up a lot of the nuances, let alone the actual testimony, that the recorded live videos show. They really shouldn't be calling it a transcript("Transcript (law), a written record of spoken language in court") imo.

 

[Cherwell]

I don't know why he didn't ask her. He should have asked. He made a lot of unfounded assumptions that night, obviously, or we wouldn't be here.

But, we can attribute all his actions to fear.

Yes, you see this is a major flaw in his story. I for one find it very difficult to get past it.

It wasn't quite such a gaping hole when we were assuming that Reeva was asleep when he woke up, but now that he's said she was awake and talking, there's just no way I can believe he wouldn't have asked her. Fear, you say? It's natural to seek reassurance if we're worried or afraid.

 

[Bazinga]

I've been wondering about Oscar's financial position. I wonder if he is not as wealthy as is assumed and as he might imply.
Considering why the DT hired this all in one Mr Dixon. Maybe cost effective?
Also other indicators such as sale of house, broken A/C not fixed.
I'm sure he is a lot less wealthy at this point anyway with expenses of defence and no earnings.

 

[Viper]

Many on here enjoy analyzing the details and comparing possiblilities etc. but the bottom line seems to be that any defendant that gets up and consistently calls what happening during the course of a murder a "version" tells it all. His concocted story does not really deserve any analysis as it is just a made up story after he did the unthinkable. Frankly it is not even a good story. All you have to do is look at the faces of the defense team and OP's family to know they realize he is done.

After the "Dixon Debaucle" now the pathologist who has been with the defense almost since day one refuses to testify. Who else will follow? They know this case is a guarantee loser and they don't want to be associated with it. I don't think Dixon had much to lose. This break will afford Roux some time to figure how to cut his loss and get out of this.

Frankly I don't understand the break...seems like Gerrie Nel is going on "holiday" and one of his team has another matter. Surely they knew this trial was not going to be short and I think there is more to the break but not sure what it is. Then upon return they actually want to put in some serious hours. Also the thought of OP walking free is really scary...believe me he still has his "black tallon bullets".

As Roux retools the case stay tuned for more surprises. They may be down to very few witnesses as he cannot take a chance on another Dixon...

Agreed! Very well said. Any further expert witnesses will have to be closely evaluated by Roux. And you are right they too have to be aware of what happened to the first two DT witnesses. If roux keeps this up it is just dumb.

Regarding the need to have an extra week postponement of this trial, the first nationally televised trial ever in SA, so that Nel's team can deal with another accused who has been in jail for two years, well that just does not ring completely true. It seems more likely that Roux is pushing OP to plea to a lesser charge, OP is waffling, and Mr. Nel is standing firm on at least murder with the mandatory minimum sentence, 25 years.

Please note that another SA man, an amputee, was just sentenced to life for the murder of his wife. He also received addition sentences, including one for illegal possession of ammunition.

 

[wb180]

During our heat waves when it's too hot to sleep upstairs, we "camp out" downstairs in the family and living rooms where it's much cooler, and we have carpet... OP's downstairs looked like it was all tile downstairs so would be even cooler. Putting bowls of water(ice works even better) in front of fans help cool the air too so yes, there were other choices rather than leaving entry points for intruders if you're so paranoid that you need to shoot visitors until dead when they need to use the toilet during the night...

Totally agree. If someone is so fearful of intruders, they will definitely not sleep with their bedroom doors open. OP even has a gun with black talons supposedly underneath his bed!

It is just ridiculous to think anyone including OP would do that if they are truly fearful of intruders.

 

[Cherwell]

I should have said their case in chief is over.

Remember, the burden of proof is on the Prosecution.

The Defense doesn't have to prove anything.

Prosecutor has the burden of proof and he didn't prove pre-meditation.

His case is over.

I know you want it to be so, but it isn't.

 

[molly333]

That would be a good argument if he wasn't a liar. The fact that he is lying on the stand means he didn't make any assumptions nor was he fearful.

I think he was fearful on the stand. I think he was exhausted and fearful and confused and having a nervous breakdown on the stand.

So you think because he got confused over 'whisper' versus 'low tone' he lied about murder?

I don't think the Judge will make that leap.

 

[Carmelita]

Exactly.

Those multi million dollar homes have a/c. His was broken. OP could have had that fixed that day if he wanted...I don't think they are as dependant on a/c as many other countries and obviously his being broken was not a high priority for him...just open the windows and doors...which indicates he was not SO AFRAID as he makes out.

I have to disagree with this. As an American if I want something fixed now all I need to do is pay a bit of extra money and I can get bumped to same day service. I would suspect in SA it is very different, if you want something fixed now, even if you are willing to pay the extra bucks you are in competition with a greater pool of people willing to pay big bucks and a smaller skilled labor force is available.

My friend has a winter home in Mexico, her husband took a bad fall, they live next to a doctor, I don’t remember how far away the nearest hospital was but it would be hours before an ambulance got there as he was not considered an emergency, (even though he had bones protruding through his skin) they had put him in a plastic reclining patio chair. The doctor said that the best and fasted thing to do would be to carry him in the chair to the nearest clinic which was about 2 miles away. Getting things done expediently is not always a matter of having money.

 

[Lochlynsmom]

I should have said their case in chief is over.

Remember, the burden of proof is on the Prosecution.

The Defense doesn't have to prove anything.

Prosecutor has the burden of proof and he didn't prove pre-meditation.

His case is over.

Sadly, you are mistaken.

 

[Carmelita]

Those multi million dollar homes have a/c. His was broken. OP could have had that fixed that day if he wanted...I don't think they are as dependant on a/c as many other countries and obviously his being broken was not a high priority for him...just open the windows and doors...which indicates he was not SO AFRAID as he makes out.

I have to disagree with this. As an American if I want something fixed now all I need to do is pay a bit of extra money and I can get bumped to same day service. I would suspect in SA it is very different, if you want something fixed now, even if you are willing to pay the extra bucks you are in competition with a greater pool of people willing to pay big bucks and a smaller skilled labor force is available.

My friend has a winter home in Mexico, her husband took a bad fall, they live next to a doctor, I don’t remember how far away the nearest hospital was but it would be hours before an ambulance got there as he was not considered an emergency, (even though he had bones protruding through his skin) they had put him in a plastic reclining patio chair. The doctor said that the best and fasted thing to do would be to carry him in the chair to the nearest clinic which was about 2 miles away. Getting things done expediently is not always a matter of having money.

 

[molly333]

I know you want it to be so, but it isn't.

Well, you have to show me how he proved pre-meditation, because I can't see it.

 

[Mr Ron]

Yes, you see this is a major flaw in his story. I for one find it very difficult to get past it.

It wasn't quite such a gaping hole when we were assuming that Reeva was asleep when he woke up, but now that he's said she was awake and talking, there's just no way I can believe he wouldn't have asked her. Fear, you say? It's natural to seek reassurance if we're worried or afraid.

It is certainly a point in favour of a guilty verdict in the respect of culpable homicide, wherein his actions only need to be found negligent as compared to those perceived to be reasonable of an average South African reacting to the same circumstance.

Off the top of my head an argument towards this charge would be that he fails to confirm the sound with a person known to be awake at the time, fails to confirm her whereabouts and safety, fails to utilise the option of escape routes (specifically the bedroom door, with other less impressive options available), approaches the danger gun drawn and safety off, fails to warn intruder he is armed, fails to give any perceived intruder time or means to escape and shoots through a locked toilet door where the danger is neither clear, nor present.

 

[Carmelita]

Sorry about the double post, a moderator can remove one. I apparently did something wrong with the quote feature and I thought my first post was lost.

 

[molly333]

I have to disagree with this. As an American if I want something fixed now all I need to do is pay a bit of extra money and I can get bumped to same day service. I would suspect in SA it is very different, if you want something fixed now, even if you are willing to pay the extra bucks you are in competition with a greater pool of people willing to pay big bucks and a smaller skilled labor force is available.

My friend has a winter home in Mexico, her husband took a bad fall, they live next to a doctor, I don’t remember how far away the nearest hospital was but it would be hours before an ambulance got there as he was not considered an emergency, (even though he had bones protruding through his skin) they had put him in a plastic reclining patio chair. The doctor said that the best and fasted thing to do would be to carry him in the chair to the nearest clinic which was about 2 miles away. Getting things done expediently is not always a matter of having money.

That's a very good point and gives credibility to the statement that the ambulance service told him to drive her in. Maybe they didn't have an ambulance available.

We have services here that are the best in the world, and take it for granted that everyone has them. They don't. It took France two hours to get Princess Diana to a hospital that was 15 minutes away from the accident scene.

 

[Cherwell]

Well, you have to show me how he proved pre-meditation, because I can't see it.

There's more to come. The case is not over. The prosecution continues its case to the end of the trial, via cross-examination and closing argument.

The job's half done anyway as OP has proved himself to be a blatant liar.

 

[steveml]

^^^ This!
Yes, and that is exactly what the charging documents state. I am not sure OP supporters understand the premeditation charge fully?

I've not seen any OP supporters, just a few people who appear to be aware of the premed. charge, and feel that this has not been established sufficiently.