Trial Discussion Thread #29

[whiterum]

:seeya:

I think OP's entire story was concocted. He needed the stumps/no stumps part of the story so he could make up the LAME excuse that he felt vulnerable and helpless on his stumps.

He actually testified that while holding the fully loaded 9 mm he felt vulnerable because he was on his stumps. In the time it took him to wonder down to the bathroom with the gun he could have put on his prosthetics if he felt so vulnerable without them.

But of course that wouldn't have fit the "I shot because I was terrified on my stumps" version that OP and his lawyers worked out and re-worked.

Exactly how anyone can believe he is not a guilty, arrogant liar especially after his cross is beyond belief.

Stumps, stilts, or whatever, the only vulnerable person was Reeva cornered in the toilet.

He claims to have confronted danger to protect Reeva, IMO listening to his lies , his evasions , the contradictions and his blatant tailoring of events, it is quite the opposite. IMO he is a coward and with weapon at hand it was easy to obliterate the object of his rage, a defenceless woman and to silence her for all time through his toilet door.

 

[Lochlynsmom]

We're all in the same boat with this. The charge is clear, however the one thing we cannot predict is how Judge Masipa will view OP's state of mind before and during the shooting.

This will undoubtedly play a major part towards her eventual verdict with regard to intent.

And this is why I think he should have admitted to the Tasha incident. Between that and the other inconsistencies his credibility is shot.

 

[Carmelita]

Very often the proof in the pudding of Oscar not being a fearful guy is the fact that he had the patio doors open. He lived in reality, in the real world, in SA where by all accounts it was a hot muggy night, one can pretty safely assume that others had their windows open also otherwise it is not much of a logical leap to believe that they would not have heard any screams hundreds of yards away. All of these people are wealthy so having problems with air conditioning is possibly a chronic and common problem.

Oscar left this home, he took off his prosthetics, he allowed multiple people in his home, he showered (how vulnerable is that), he didn’t have armed guards, his home was not a fortress, he left his second story patio doors open, none of that means he was not paranoid about his own security. Being paranoid and diligent about his own security does not mean he stood sentry 24/7 with a cocked gun, it simply means he was more diligent and concerned about his safety than most folks would reasonably be, even the folks who shared his gated community.

He was also prone to react to perceived danger immediately and without hesitation. His disability lent itself to that fear and to his “imminent danger” responses.

Something interesting is Oscar’s beloved quote form his mum, (this is not verbatim) “The man who crosses the finish line last does not lose the race. It is the man sitting in the stand who has not joined the race.” Oscar would never fail to respond to a perceived danger. It is not in his nature or his learned behavior. Did he act recklessly even if he thought Reeva was an intruder? In my mind yes.

 

[kittychi]

That's a very good point and gives credibility to the statement that the ambulance service told him to drive her in. Maybe they didn't have an ambulance available.

We have services here that are the best in the world, and take it for granted that everyone has them. They don't. It took France two hours to get Princess Diana to a hospital that was 15 minutes away from the accident scene.

On the other hand, we do not know what he told Netcare about how serious her injuries were.

I cannot imagine if they really knew the amount of bleeding and devastation to her body that they would really ask him to carry her to his car and drive her in.

 

[Carmelita]

How is someone shot in the head not an emergency? Really??

I did not say or suggest that someone being shot in the head is not an emergency.

 

[Val1]

How is someone shot in the head not an emergency? Really??

Perhaps because they're already dead?

 

[Really?]

Those multi million dollar homes have a/c. His was broken. OP could have had that fixed that day if he wanted...I don't think they are as dependant on a/c as many other countries and obviously his being broken was not a high priority for him...just open the windows and doors...which indicates he was not SO AFRAID as he makes out.

come to think of it.....how do we know the ac was broken......if the answer is OP said so.....well......now I want more proof.

 

[Viper]

Katy Katopodis chats to Firearm Law Attorney Martin Hood - OP Trial Day 24, 16 April 2014

http://oscartrial.dstv.com/video/100832/category/0

Might be of some interest...

 

[turaj]

BIB. I personally do not believe your friend's fairy tale. But even if I did that scenario does not relate to having a technician repair or replace an AC unit in an upscale housing compound in SA. It just doesn't.

Don't really agree with the comparison here. If someone living in SA would like to make the statement that OP could not get timely service on his a/c if he wanted it (ie was important to him) then I'll go with that. His multi million dollar home is part of a secured compound and I'm sure they have contracts for every kind of service possible. Frankly I think it would have been a good question for him on the stand as clearly not having a/c and opening windows renders that "fear" factor useless. There are very few countries where money and status goes with getting things done fast if you want it.
Having been in some situations where a/c did not work or did not exist I still slept with windows/doors closed if I felt any threat of break in...so either the threat of break in in that secure compound was minimal or he was reckless and not really afraid at all. This is in response to original post by Carmelita.

 

[whiterum]

his testimony resembles a pair of fishnet tights.

lol !!

 

[molly333]

BBM - I've seen several. I just don't get the reluctance to admit there are supporters here. It's not a crime. Unlike shooting your girlfriend dead in a toilet and concocting a (sick) bucket full of lies to evade justice.

Just to make something clear, I didn't even know who he was before this case.

I had never heard of Oscar Pistorius.

Ok, so I live under a rock. But I'm just looking at the merits of the case.

 

[steveml]

We were joined last night by a poster from South Africa who is very familiar with Gerrie Nel's style, and he mentioned the piecemeal nature of his questioning as being typical of Nel. He also said that Nel is brilliant at drawing all the disparate threads together in his closing arguments and that this is where he excels. I am really looking forward to that.

That would be Cape Town Crim.

He mentioned he had some news that he was going to provide this morning. regarding some bill or law that had been passed.

The courts haven't been made aware of this yet though.

 

[DebinGA]

:seeya:

Yes, you see this is a major flaw in his story. I for one find it very difficult to get past it.

It wasn't quite such a gaping hole when we were assuming that Reeva was asleep when he woke up, but now that he's said she was awake and talking, there's just no way I can believe he wouldn't have asked her. Fear, you say? It's natural to seek reassurance if we're worried or afraid.

I felt sure Roux and OP would present a lengthy list of crimes OP had personally experienced, but there were none that could be verified, except that the police on scene that day stole his watch/s. What explains his supposedly instant and overwhelming terror then, as there was nothing Roux presented or OP testified to? That his mom kept a gun under her pillow that she never had occasion to use against an intruder?

 

[Viper]

Sorry about the double post, a moderator can remove one. I apparently did something wrong with the quote feature and I thought my first post was lost.

You can clean up your own posts. Just hit "Edit" and then delete the duplicate post. If you have added an additional quote by mistake, go to "Edit" and in the body of the post delete the unwanted quote(s), and then "Save" your changes.

 

[jassy writer]

I think he was fearful on the stand. I think he was exhausted and fearful and confused and having a nervous breakdown on the stand.

So you think because he got confused over 'whisper' versus 'low tone' he lied about murder?

I don't think the Judge will make that leap.

Do you know that a well respected journalist has said that she has heard he has been having acting lessons?

http://citizen.co.za/161613/oscar-like-eugene-terreblanche-jani-allen/

 

[molly333]

On the other hand, we do not know what he told Netcare about how serious her injuries were.

I cannot imagine if they really knew the amount of bleeding and devastation to her body that they were really ask him to carry her to his car and drive her in.

Yes, we don't know because the prosecutor never put them on the stand.

See how that works?

You're not supposed to imagine. You're supposed to know.

If you don't know, it goes to the defense--presumption of innocence.

 

[turaj]

Very often the proof in the pudding of Oscar not being a fearful guy is the fact that he had the patio doors open. He lived in reality, in the real world, in SA where by all accounts it was a hot muggy night, one can pretty safely assume that others had their windows open also otherwise it is not much of a logical leap to believe that they would not have heard any screams hundreds of yards away. All of these people are wealthy so having problems with air conditioning is possibly a chronic and common problem.

Oscar left this home, he took off his prosthetics, he allowed multiple people in his home, he showered (how vulnerable is that), he didn’t have armed guards, his home was not a fortress, he left his second story patio doors open, none of that means he was not paranoid about his own security. Being paranoid and diligent about his own security does not mean he stood sentry 24/7 with a cocked gun, it simply means he was more diligent and concerned about his safety than most folks, even the folks who shared his gated community.

He was also prone to react to perceived danger immediately and without hesitation. His disability lent itself to that fear and to his “imminent danger” responses.

Something interesting is Oscar’s beloved quote form his mum, (this is not verbatim) “The man who crosses the finish line last does not lose the race. It is the man sitting in the stand who has not joined the race.” Oscar would never fail to respond to a perceived danger. It is not in his nature or his learned behavior. Did he act recklessly even if he thought Reeva was an intruder? In my mind yes.

I would agree that others may have had windows open and I think testimony may have indicated that; however then that clearly speaks to their perception that security in their compound was good and again does not support OP's paranoia. So...doubtful any of them would hop up and open fire with deadly bullets without confirming the target.

 

[whiterum]

There probably was no recording as neither the defence or prosecution appeared to have used it.

Netcare does record phone calls so it leads to two possibles.

1. He called the number but was put on hold and didn't get through to an actual operator (66 second call).

2. Gunshots around 3:16 a.m., he then called Stander at 3:19 a.m. followed by Netcare at 3:21 a.m.

I contend that the timing means he wouldn't have time to actually break down the door at that stage and see Reeva's actual injuries. He may have reported Reeva as being shot but without being able to describe the injuries, they would have asked him to bring her in.

If he actually said she was shot in the head, I'm pretty sure they would have said we will be sending an ambulance quick smart.

On the stand he said he phoned Stander in order to help him pick Reeva up so he must have seen Reeva and her injuries before he phoned Netcare since he phone stander first.

 

[steveml]

Don't really agree with the comparison here. If someone living in SA would like to make the statement that OP could not get timely service on his a/c if he wanted it (ie was important to him) then I'll go with that. His multi million dollar home is part of a secured compound and I'm sure they have contracts for every kind of service possible. Frankly I think it would have been a good question for him on the stand as clearly not having a/c and opening windows renders that "fear" factor useless. There are very few countries where money and status goes with getting things done fast if you want it.
Having been in some situations where a/c did not work or did not exist I still slept with windows/doors closed if I felt any threat of break in...so either the threat of break in in that secure compound was minimal or he was reckless and not really afraid at all. This is in response to original post by Carmelita.

The home is far from a multi-million dollar property. Multi-million refers to SA rand, the house is about £277K in my currency (GBP)

 

[kittychi]

come to think of it.....how do we know the ac was broken......if the answer is OP said so.....well......now I want more proof.

Pretty convenient for Oscar's story that his AC was broken, the light was burned out, the disengaged alarm system (by someone else, of course), the blue light and the jeans, the ladder outside...and on and on. It is so obvious to me that he tailored his story to match above.

Oh, and that he screams like a woman.