Why did Mr Stander show up with his wife and daughter? Very odd at 3:30 AM! I wonder if OP asked Stander to help with a cover up? IDK. Then Mrs Stander said something to the doctor about being worried that the media would find out....
I wouldn't underestimate him. I believe that in certain instances where it appears that he is trying to get the witnesses to change their testimony, his actual purpose is to lock them in to their version and also to demonstrate their bias and refusal to consider possibilities that do not align with their beliefs about Oscar's guilt.
I agree he is in his element - he has a presence that suggests he is in command, even with the judge. He is aggravating for sure.
ETA: He has pretty well established that a cricket bat hitting the door can sound like gunshots, as Stipp said they sounded identical. Roux knew this would be Stipp's testimony, and I believe this is why he really got Burger to twist herself in knots over her certainty that she heard gunshots and it could not possibly be the cricket bat hitting the door -- her dogmatic insistence and refusal to admit even the possibility paints her as unreasonable and biased.
"Det Botha said four mobile phones were seized at the property, but none was used to call police or paramedics.
Mr Roux said there was another phone which the defendant had used to call for medical help at 03:20. He had also called a security guard. Det Botha said he had not been told about the other phone."
http://zambianeye.com/archives/18901
Minor4th: To my knowledge, it has never been established that this 5th phone was given up. It was taken from the scene and Botha was chastised for not asking for it. (Not sure how you would expect to recover 5 cell phones from a one-person household with one guest.)
LE may very well have gotten that 5th phone, but I have not seen anything to indicate that.
BTW: Why didn't you call yourself Major3rd?
I know she did...his version is that she didn't intentionally commit suicide, that she jumped when he startled her and accidentally pulled the trigger. My info is from the HBO movie with Al Pacino as PS & Helen Mirren as his attorney. I very well may have wrong info, but that's what I was going by.
Sorry OffTopic, All.
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Blood?
"Det Botha said four mobile phones were seized at the property, but none was used to call police or paramedics.
Mr Roux said there was another phone which the defendant had used to call for medical help at 03:20. He had also called a security guard. Det Botha said he had not been told about the other phone."
http://zambianeye.com/archives/18901
Minor4th: To my knowledge, it has never been established that this 5th phone was given up. It was taken from the scene and Botha was chastised for not asking for it. (Not sure how you would expect to recover 5 cell phones from a one-person household with one guest.)
LE may very well have gotten that 5th phone, but I have not seen anything to indicate that.
BTW: Why didn't you call yourself Major3rd?
I wouldn't underestimate him. I believe that in certain instances where it appears that he is trying to get the witnesses to change their testimony, his actual purpose is to lock them in to their version and also to demonstrate their bias and refusal to consider possibilities that do not align with their beliefs about Oscar's guilt.
I agree he is in his element - he has a presence that suggests he is in command, even with the judge. He is aggravating for sure.
ETA: He has pretty well established that a cricket bat hitting the door can sound like gunshots, as Stipp said they sounded identical. Roux knew this would be Stipp's testimony, and I believe this is why he really got Burger to twist herself in knots over her certainty that she heard gunshots and it could not possibly be the cricket bat hitting the door -- her dogmatic insistence and refusal to admit even the possibility paints her as unreasonable and biased.
Guess I'm not part of "y'all". Keep up the good posts minor4th.Since y'all think I'm an irrational Oscar apologist, here are a couple of things that bother me about Oscar's statements:
3. In his plea explanation, Oscar says that he heard the bathroom window sliding open but in his bail affidavit, he only said he heard a noise in the bathroom. Again, this looks like he is coming up with additional information in response to what he believes the witnesses will say. It wouldn't bother me, except is there anything to indicate that Reeva was opening or closing the toilet window?
Roux is highly connected...
Will never happen no matter what he does... JMOOC
I already heard Roux insult Nel and neither Nel or the Judge admonished him.
Nel allowed things from Roux against the witnesses for the first several days before he finally started to object to things he should have maybe in the first few minutes.
I have already pointed out how many times Roux is allowed to state with "certainty' matters of phsyics and physiology as 'facts" that are dead wrong--and almost always w.o. objection from Nel or the judge.
Indeed numerous untoward things happened at the BH--like Roux admitting that he has the
5th phone illegally taken from the crime scene! Someone committed a serious crime in this regard. Did you see that Judge or Nel wanting to get at the bottom of that? No. Indeed, the BH Judge warped things and blamed Botha for not finding out what is on a phone that he just found out about existed and that was illegally taken from the crime scene. And Botha gets admonished from that Judge and nothing against the DT for the crime of removing evidence from the scene.
I rest my case/assertion.
Dr Stipp said that the siluette he saw in the bathroom window was in dark clothes ..Is it clear when he saw that movement in the window ..My guess is during the screams before the shots ? What happened to Oscar's bloody clothes at the time of the crime and noone asked what he was wearing to Baba and DR Stipp? IIRC Reeva was wearing a black top .. If Oscar's clothes are light colored , then could that be Reeva? :scared:
I am on the fence about premeditated murder. I think OP may be guilty of culpable homicide. I agree with Minor4th. No solid evidence - yet - for premeditated murder. Can't wait to see how the rest of the trial & evidence progress. I think week one was a score for the state. We'll see. JMO. Great discussion! Love this site. OT but good info on the missing Malaysian flight thread here too.
I have to take issue with your assertion that Roux has established that gun shots and a cricket bat striking the toilet door sound identical.
Possibly it is just me, but i am not convinced by this at all.
Stipp did not agree that the two sounds were identical from what I read (as in cricket bat and gun shot). Stipp maintained that he heard two sets of gunfire which sounded identical because they were both gunshots. These are two entirely different things. It is Roux that keeps bringing up the cricket bat and trying to force the witnesses into agreeing that the final set of gunshots which they all claim to have heard were actually the cricket bat and that the woman's screams they heard were actually Oscar. Just because OP and Roux say they were the cricket bat does not mean that is the truth and to assume it is and therefore claim that things have been 'established' is entirely misleading in my view.
Photo of home & 3D re-creation video of incident & visual: http://ewn.co.za/2014/03/06/Dramatic-testimony-from-inside-Oscar-Pistorius-home
I think OP home is in the middle of photo - with all the shrubs around it. Which home is the doctors? The one with red on it, on corner, or behind his? Just wondering since he is the one who heard the double sets of noises and must be in closest proximity (of the neighbors who have testified).
Just a word of advice, which goes for any case including this OP one... always use trial testimony and legal documents as your information and source when possible. Movies and representations are not necessarily accurate and often contain fictional elements, as the HBO movie you reference most certainly was fiction.
Why are the phone records incorrect and could it matter?
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Shout-tests-done-at-Pistorius-house-20140307
He questioned Stipp on whether he was sure about his testimony that he had twice tried to call the security at the complex.
Stipp agreed, adding that he could not get through the first time around.
Roux said the State had provided phone records of the security company and those showed that Stipp's first call did not go through, but the second call went unanswered.
Stipp maintained he was able to get through to security on his second try.
Was it a land line or direct intercom phone to guards or a 5th cell phone?
IIRC, "premeditated murder" in SA is different than in the US to my understanding.
In SA, it can be called premeditated if, indeed, Oscar purposely went to get his gun because he intended to use it to kill Reeva. IOW, in mere seconds, he chose to shoot to kill her.
In US, it seems there is more time and intent required. I.e, he planned to kill her before she got there and he purposely locked doors, etc., to fulfill his plan.
I do hope a South African person on this board can clarify that and add info or correct me if I am wrong.
TIA
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