Trial Discussion Thread #30

[Gbtaketwo]

Thanks ... very interesting!

Imagine for a moment a high velocity pellet (ie. super sonic) passing through an intermediate target of wood (.4 to .75 inches thick) and then striking flesh ... is it not possible that it would it just bruise, or puncture but not fully penetrate the flesh?

If you look at the scale on the bruise in the photo above, it is in the range of .5 cm ... that's certainly within the range of .177 calibre pellets.

Regardless of whether they caused injuries it seems very odd to have pellet holes in that door .
Wonder if he fell over his air rifle when forcing the door open
Obviously being a bit sarcastic here but love to hear what his live in staff have to say about all the internal damage if they are called as defence witness.
If they have been persuaded to testify they might well be having regrets now .
What ever they say it will be difficult to refute other neighbours as they are not really independent . I have always been shocked they did not appear on the evening of the shooting assuming they were actually on sight that evening and if they were on site why on earth would OP have called Stander and not his staff to help with Reeva.

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

Good job.

Now you can see why upthread I was dubious on him testifying for the Pros.

He's not ony a friend of the family as he told OP not to worry everything will end up oK, he may really be family.

OTOH, we do not now if that is a common name in SA?
So while they may be related, it could be very distantly so.

There are many many many Labuschagnes in SA, it's a pretty common Afrikaans surname.

However, that doesn't mean there isn't a familial link. If this were so, I doubt the state would allow his continues involvement, and then Bronwyn Stollarz would take lead IMHO.

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

Thanks for the links ,will take some time to read them thoroughly .
What is your view on the other gun related charges and likely sentences ?

Within SA law, those are actually very serious charges all on their lonesome.

Prison sentence charges.

I think M'lady has no option to find him guilty on the Tasha's and ammo charges. The sunroof, depends on M'lady's feelings towards Fresco and Taylor's evidence (I would find him guilty....in a flash) BUT: They both had something to gain by testifying. Fresco escaped prosecution himself, and Taylor is a woman scorned. I know it sounds 'petty' - but I do feel M'lady 'might' struggle with this.

I hope I am wrong, as I don't believe either of them are lying, and Oscar simply said, "It didn't happen, they are lying" - when HE is the one spinning the BS tracks.

He won't be carrying a firearm again though - that's a given, and a relief to South African society :denied:

Offenses under the FCA:The FCA states that a person convicted of an offense under its provisions may be subject to a fine or imprisonment.[110] The maximum possible prison term for each offense is spelled out in great detail, the terms ranging from two to twenty-five years.[111] In addition, if the penalty stipulated for the offense in question is a fine or prison term of up to five years, additional administrative fines are imposed.[112]

 

[Trooper]

My theory runs along the lines of it being Colonel Motha, not Labuschagne as the 'family friend.... I got the distinct impression he was faffing about taking 'alternative 'photos as a direct competition to Van Staden, the official pic man....


When its all said and done, whatever the SAPS conclusion was that early morning at Oscars home.. it was not reliant on all the ear witnesses or ballistics or autopsy... they had Oscar charged with murder in the garage within a few hours of being called out there.. whatever they saw...and its all in Van Stadens photos.. it convinced them, and it must have been convincing to the Dept Of Justice, Prosecutions and they haven't backtracked from it to this day..

thanks for your posts, capetowner... welcome to the laager of websleuths..

Ive been catching up on Dix's testimony.. . I cried with laughter, god help us.. thanks to everyone for your astounding comments...

I reckon Roux put Dixon up there because his bill isn't being paid.. there can be no other explanation , he was grotesquely absurd..

 

[shane13]

Within SA law, those are actually very serious charges all on their lonesome.

Prison sentence charges.

I think M'lady has no option to find him guilty on the Tasha's and ammo charges. The sunroof, depends on M'lady's feelings towards Fresco and Taylor's evidence (I would find him guilty....in a flash) BUT: They both had something to gain by testifying. Fresco escaped prosecution himself, and Taylor is a woman scorned. I know it sounds 'petty' - but I do feel M'lady 'might' struggle with this.

I hope I am wrong, as I don't believe either of them are lying, and Oscar simply said, "It didn't happen, they are lying" - when HE is the one spinning the BS tracks.

He won't be carrying a firearm again though - that's a given, and a relief to South African society :denied:

Offenses under the FCA:The FCA states that a person convicted of an offense under its provisions may be subject to a fine or imprisonment.[110] The maximum possible prison term for each offense is spelled out in great detail, the terms ranging from two to twenty-five years.[111] In addition, if the penalty stipulated for the offense in question is a fine or prison term of up to five years, additional administrative fines are imposed.[112]

How are you not an attorney?

Unless (just sleuthing) you are a law school grad. But immediately went into Uni teaching. You sly Professor you.

 

[Trooper]

and about that ammo in the safe.. he had a gun on order from Sean Rens that uses that ammo. that is. . he was in the process of being in the position to use it. I think it was the Mossberg ... his explanation that he didn't have a gun that uses it was disingenuous.. he had one comin in the pipeline.

 

[Lyra500]

and about that ammo in the safe.. he had a gun on order from Sean Rens that uses that ammo. that is. . he was in the process of being in the position to use it. I think it was the Mossberg ... his explanation that he didn't have a gun that uses it was disingenuous.. he had one comin in the pipeline.

There seems to be no end to this man's deviousness.

And yet he expects everyone to take him at his word. Unbelievable.

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

My theory runs along the lines of it being Colonel Motha, not Labuschagne as the 'family friend.... I got the distinct impression he was faffing about taking 'alternative 'photos as a direct competition to Van Staden, the official pic man....


When its all said and done, whatever the SAPS conclusion was that early morning at Oscars home.. it was not reliant on all the ear witnesses or ballistics or autopsy... they had Oscar charged with murder in the garage within a few hours of being called out there.. whatever they saw...and its all in Van Stadens photos.. it convinced them, and it must have been convincing to the Dept Of Justice, Prosecutions and they haven't backtracked from it to this day..

thanks for your posts, capetowner... welcome to the laager of websleuths..

Ive been catching up on Dix's testimony.. . I cried with laughter, god help us.. thanks to everyone for your astounding comments...

I reckon Roux put Dixon up there because his bill isn't being paid.. there can be no other explanation , he was grotesquely absurd..

What instruments did you use?

My eyes.

:floorlaugh:

The poor chap is on the front pages of all the Sunday Papers. I'm not sure Dixon or his clivia appreciate the fame.

 

[Trooper]

Oscar and the family live under the teaching of Terre Blanche.. its a wonder they don't ride into the Gauteng High Court on a white horse with outriders..

 

[wb180]

and about that ammo in the safe.. he had a gun on order from Sean Rens that uses that ammo. that is. . he was in the process of being in the position to use it. I think it was the Mossberg ... his explanation that he didn't have a gun that uses it was disingenuous.. he had one comin in the pipeline.

Maybe his dad asked him to buy it and keep it for him.

 

[Trooper]

What instruments did you use?

My eyes.

:floorlaugh:

:trainwreck:

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

Oscar and the family live under the teaching of Terre Blanche.. its a wonder they don't ride into the Gauteng High Court on a white horse with outriders..

The Pistorious's are pure 'Lannister' from Game of Thrones.

Oscar makes a fine Joffrey.

 

[Linda7NJ]

What instruments did you use?

My eyes.

:floorlaugh:

The poor chap is on the front pages of all the Sunday Papers. I'm not sure Dixon or his clivia appreciate the fame.

Welcome!
I love your insightful posts!

Fair warning...yes this website is addicting. I came here following another case back in 2005 and have never left




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Viper]

I think I remember Dixon referring to those marks as caused by ricochet from the bathroom wall.

I was just having morning coffee Molly while I read your post. I actually believed what you said! :facepalm: It was actually Magena that said that. Just to clarify.

 

[Trooper]

actually, Dixon had that same effect on me as Hansie Cronje's dwarf preacher... sometimes in a trial the most improbable figures flit across it, always serious and earnest and even sincere but always earnestly and sincerely insane..

 

[TrueDetective]

These are terrific questions by TrueDetective and Gbtaketwo!
My 2 cents on a few of the questions….


Is there a 5th cartridge or was it a slip of the tongue?
I say yes, there is. Why?
No one corrected the number - not Roux, not Mangena, not the judge, nor her 2 assessors - that is 5 people in a position of authority to hear it and correct it did not.

Could the first shots possibly have been air rifle shots?
Absolutely. Although the prosecution's narrative behind photos 40 thru 44 has not been provided, these are clearly bullet type marks/holes made by projectiles of approx 4.5 mm/ .177 inch diameter. Judging from the photos shown (note, not all 11 photos labelled #40 thu to#50 were visible on the video recording), I believe there were at least two shots on the bedroom door - one most certainly went thru the door, the other, with an entrance on the TV/sitting room side of the is indeterminate because the exit side was not displayed on the video recording by SABCdiditalnews. see attached photo

Does anyone know how loud air rifle shots are, in comparison to bats on door?
Some air rifles have the capacity to generate a sonic crack. No bats wielded under human power can generate a sonic crack on this planet.

Could the hole in the bedroom door be the 5th shot?
If by 5th shot, you mean the 5th cartridge referred to by Nel, then I say NO for two reasons:

• The holes in the bedroom are 4.5 mm calibre/ diameter, while the holes in the bathroom door are 9mm -- therefore, different weapons were used.
• Since Nel has loosely implied by way of photographs, that it was the air gun that made the holes in the bedroom door, and we know that air guns use solid pellets - that is, there is no cartridge casing on a pellet.

If the 5th cartridge was found in/near bathroom could Oscar have used his trip upstairs to move the cartridge there so as to take focus off bedroom door
Yes! Through testimony thus far, we know Oscar made 3 trips upstairs before the police arrived.



Is it a silencer or a compensator?
When I first saw the air gun photo I thought it was a silencer. Now I am not so sure. After a bit of research I am thinking its just a compensator - a piece of add on equipment that is claimed to improve the accuracy, direct the CO2 gases away from the shooter, and to give the rifle a more tactical look - had a good laugh when I read that in more than one place.
That said, it does not matter at all whether it was a compensator or a silencer because neither of those attachments suppress the sound of a sonic crack. The silencer only suppresses the sound of the muzzle blast.

Fascinating stuff.
I believe that there might have been multiple air rifle shots. Those were the first shots.

 

[shane13]

On the .38 ammo.
Oscar had a whole slew of guns on order, as a dealer or collector.
But he did not have any ammo for any of those coming guns in his safe, only the .38 ammo. And perhaps a gun there with it?

Curiously 1 of the guns on order was basically a machne gun.

I recall one of the articles on him going back now 3 years ago or so alleges that the reporter saw several guns in his bedroom. The 9 mm parabellum and a machne gun. Now there are so many inaccuraccies in the OP matter, and in general from MSM, so I don't take the reporter's word on the machine gun as fact. Who knows?

 

[TrueDetective]

I think I remember Dixon referring to those marks as caused by ricochet from the bathroom wall.

Frankly I wouldn't trust Dixon's opinion on anything following his shambles of a testimony.
Let me remind you Molly.
Dixon is NOT a pathologist.
Dixon is NOT a ballistics expert.

 

[Viper]

Why did Roux have OP use both putative self defense and involuntary action in his testimony?

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Within SA law, those are actually very serious charges all on their lonesome.

Prison sentence charges.

I think M'lady has no option to find him guilty on the Tasha's and ammo charges. The sunroof, depends on M'lady's feelings towards Fresco and Taylor's evidence (I would find him guilty....in a flash) BUT: They both had something to gain by testifying. Fresco escaped prosecution himself, and Taylor is a woman scorned. I know it sounds 'petty' - but I do feel M'lady 'might' struggle with this.

I hope I am wrong, as I don't believe either of them are lying, and Oscar simply said, "It didn't happen, they are lying" - when HE is the one spinning the BS tracks.

He won't be carrying a firearm again though - that's a given, and a relief to South African society :denied:

Offenses under the FCA:The FCA states that a person convicted of an offense under its provisions may be subject to a fine or imprisonment.[110] The maximum possible prison term for each offense is spelled out in great detail, the terms ranging from two to twenty-five years.[111] In addition, if the penalty stipulated for the offense in question is a fine or prison term of up to five years, additional administrative fines are imposed.[112]

Thanks for the reply a lot of useful info here.
Good to hear he won't be carrying a gun again.
With regard to the Ex girlfriends testimony my thoughts were that she will feel very lucky that it wasn't her so that to me will have mitigated any feelings of jealousy or bitterness she may have felt towards OP
To put herself through the Ordeal of giving evidence I figure she is probably speaking the truth but obviously that is just how I would see it if I had been in her position.
I was listening to legal view points on you tube today and they were saying the previous head injury is likely to be used in his defence .
That being the case it is very good that the prosecution brought the other charges at the same time as the murder charge because I can't see him being able to use the head injury as an excuse for them . I also am hoping for culpable homicide as a minimum even with the head injury excuse