Trial Discussion Thread #32

[patCee]

He was in the middle of planning on covering up the crime and getting rid of her body when Stipp caught him. He hadn't called an ambulance or police.

He had to come up with the story he was taking her to the hospital. Notice how he didn't remember what he said when he called Netcare. He probably called, then changed his mind, maybe trying to cover both bases. Same with the call to Baba. He called just to have it on record in case he needed it, but didn't ask for help.

I can go with that. It does take it into another league for me though, with the horror that is.

 

[nastasya]

I don't know how to do this 'snipping' thing so will just say Nastasya that I'd never thought before that maybe the door never was locked. Good thinking. Again, IIRC, there is only Pistorius's word that it was locked.

What do you mean though by putting the keys 'on the wrong side'? They were on the inside weren't they, which would seem the logical place for him to put them I'd of thought.

The keys were on the outside of the bathroom door.

OP's story is he broke the door down, then reached over the broken door and picked the keys up off the floor, not noticing Reeva's dead body until he put the keys in the other side of the door and unlocked it.

There's zero chance that happened.

 

[crasshopper]

RSBM

Wow... just realized something.... Reeva never locked the door.

She was able to hold it closed with OP pulling on it because he was on his stumps and had no leverage.

He had to say it was locked to explain why the door was bashed in. Otherwise there's no explanation for the broken door.

This points to what I was stating the other night about the implausibility of Oscar's version of going back to his room, looking for Reeva in the dark, then putting on his legs and grabbing the bat.

Why grab the bat, he hadn't checked the door (theoretically finding it locked) before backing down the bathroom hallway. He would have had no reason to assume he needed a bat or to break down the door.

To make his version plausible he would have had to have checked the door first before getting the bat or explained his reasoning as I grabbed the bat in case the person behind the door, the mythical 'intruder',' was still a threat in case it wasn't Reeva in there.

Oh the web he weaves...

edit: I also agree that Reeva was holding the door shut while he was trying to open it. I thought that ever since the pathologist testified she was likely standing up against the door when the first shot shattered her hip. I think OP was furious she was able to hold it shut and to even out the disadvantage of his stumps he got the bat and the gun. jmo

 

[BritsKate]

I'm on my phone so can't thank posts - thank you though Soozie, much appreciated!
------------
I think the only reason the DT are contesting the 3:17 bangs is to refute an argument scenario as put forth by the State. Its the only thing that makes sense. But, I believe presenting a medically impossible time line just in hopes of eventualis, CH or less is a hell of a gamble.

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[beach]

I forgot to use "..." but when I do that
I thought the "..." indicted I was snipping.
I just do it to save space.

How do you otherwise indicate you're snipping?

It is courteous to indicate when you have snipped a portion of a quoted post. That can be done in a variety of ways as long as you acknowledge that you've snipped it. FYI - Snipping is fine to save space or when you are addressing a particular point.

At the beginning of your reply just indicate by something like this:

Respectfully snipped by me

RSBM (acronym for above)

Doesn't matter too much as long as you make it clear.

Hope that helps!

 

[Nausicaa]

Well this relates to the deep stuff that Murphy's law caught.
"Why is/isn't Reeva calling the police?"
Where I found a great dip in his voice and the indeteminate is or isn't.

But I think Murphy was right: OP was letting it be known what made him kill her--she was trying to call the police. IMO after an hour of being held against her will and/or a more "minor" assault.

Once again, OP may have feared that Reeva had in fact succeeded in getting through to the police for a split second or at least in dialling the number. In which case his story of telling her to call the police was necessary to explain why that may have been the last number she dialled.

 

[Lyra500]

The keys were on the outside of the bathroom door.

OP's story is he broke the door down, then reached over the broken door and picked the keys up off the floor, not noticing Reeva's dead body until he put the keys in the other side of the door and unlocked it.

There's zero chance that happened.

Is that really how he put it? That seems to have passed me by.

My problem was that with or without his stumps I could not understand how his arms were long enough to reach through the broken panel in the upper half of the door and pick keys up off the floor on the inside of the cubicle. It sounded physically impossible.

But I had not realised that he mentioned reaching through to pick up the keys but not seeing Reeva.

Is that in his first 'version'? I thought he had now mentioned seeing Reeva through the broken panel - was that another later amendment?

 

[Nausicaa]

It is courteous to indicate when you have snipped a portion of a quoted post. That can be done in a variety of ways as long as you acknowledge that you've snipped it. FYI - Snipping is fine to save space or when you are addressing a particular point.

At the beginning of your reply just indicate by something like this:

Respectfully snipped by me

RSBM (acronym for above)

Doesn't matter too much as long as you make it clear.

Hope that helps!

Beach, in the learned world (reviews, textbooks, etc), everyone uses "[...]" to indicate a snip of material extraneous to what is being commented on. I've been blithely following that practice. Please don't hesitate to correct me if that is not recognized form here.

 

[shane13]

Before people go off...

Realize the immense upper body strength of OP--a supreme athlete.

Also what is now being discussed goes against Oscar being pissed likely because Reeva did lock herself in the loo, causing him to yell for her to "get the **** outa my house."

ETA: And take the actions many of us think he did with the bat.
Prob. early on.

mOO

 

[beach]

Thank you all for the "snipping" information!

Now can someone tell me what <modsnip> means? Thank you.

<modsnip> is only used by a moderator or admin.

The reason for the <modsnip> usually appears in the edit line. If you see where a mod has snipped a post of yours and you are confused after reviewing the edit line, please feel free to send that mod a private message asking for clarification. We're here to help.

 

[beach]

Beach, in the learned world (reviews, textbooks, etc), everyone uses "[...]" to indicate a snip of material extraneous to what is being commented on. I've been blithely following that practice. Please don't hesitate to correct me if that is not recognized form here.

That's fine and I understand what you're talking about.

We have so many members from all over the planet (especially following this case!) that for the sake of consistency I would just ask that at the beginning of each reply where a quoted post has been snipped to also use one of the suggestions I cited above.

Not that one way is more correct than another, just better to be consistent when we can.

 

[shane13]

Once again, OP may have feared that Reeva had in fact succeeded in getting through to the police for a split second or at least in dialling the number. In which case his story of telling her to call the police was necessary to explain why that may have been the last number she dialled.

OK...
If so, are you saying the police covered that up, because if she did reach police [even briefly], there'd be a record of that.

As I have written, I think he got the phone out of her hands quickly via threat or assault.

But I am willing to see more of your ideas.

 

[TorisMom003]

Before people go off...

Realize the immense upper body strength of OP--a supreme athlete.

Also what is now being discussed goes against Oscar being pissed likely because Reeva did lock herself in the loo, causing him to yell for her to "get the **** outa my house."

It doesn't really go against OP being ticked because Reeva "locked" herself in the toilet room. OP couldn't get in, Reeva wouldn't come out. Reeva holding the door shut by the handle is just another way of locking herself in that room, just without using the key.

It really doesn't matter what kind of upper body strength OP has. Reeva was in a state of immense panic, with her adrenaline flowing. It is possible that she could hold that door shut even with OP pulling on it trying to open it.

MOO

ETA: That toilet door key and the key chain showed no visible signs of blood on it either.

 

[shane13]

It doesn't really go against OP being ticked because Reeva "locked" herself in the toilet room. OP couldn't get in, Reeva wouldn't come out. Reeva holding the door shut by the handle is just another way of locking herself in that room, just without using the key.

It really doesn't matter what kind of upper body strength OP has. Reeva was in a state of immense panic, with her adrenaline flowing. It is possible that she could hold that door shut even with OP pulling on it trying to open it.

MOO

Oscar's adrenaline was flowing too.

One of the world's premiere athletes.

MOO too.

 

[beach]

Fair enough. I don't know the probabilities.
I think all our imaginations are running riot on here.

BBM

Really? Well, I be darned. I hadn't noticed that.

<said with a heavy dose of sarcasm>


I hope no one stretches so hard they hurt themselves before testimony resumes!

Carry on.

 

[homegirl]

I have been watching the trial since it began in March and have been following along here. Thanks to everyone for the insightful comments and for the robust debate. The delay in court proceedings has allowed me to do some study and to make my first post. I will probably be making some mistakes in posting. Here is what is bugging me.


I was surprised that Nel concluded his case without addressing the chaotic scene in that bathroom and water closet (WC) and what transpired there after the shooting. There are so many unasked and unanswered questions. I have become somewhat obsessed about that plank from the door which was found laying partly in and partly out of the WC. Nel questioned OP about Reeva’s position and where he found her cell phone. OP said he phone was lying where the plank was. Nel said, “and the plank?” Op said, “I don’t remember.” And that was it. I am convinced that Nel will have more to say about it.

It is my opinion that the plank could not have been in the WC before OP dragged Reeva out into the bathroom, mainly because it is lying on top of the blood trail. It sounds crazy, but I have concluded that OP must have placed it there after moving her. The dimenions of the WC are 4’ 10 1/2” X 3’ 11 1/4”. The plank is longer than the WC is wide. There is no room in that small space for Reeva, OP and the plank. I can’t think of a reasonable scenerio where that plank was knocked into the WC and then ended up on top of the blood trail with the back side up. And I can’t believe that OP could have forgottn about it. I considered that Op ripped it out and into the bathroom, then kicked it into the WC after moving Reeva, but the blood trail is not disturbed and I can’t see a likely path. I can’t figure out why he might have done this, but that is what my eye instruments are telling me.

The first photo below shows the plank as found. The side that is up is the WC facing, or back side. You can see the exit hole of bullet C, and I have pointed, with a yellow arrow, to that small protrusion which forms half of bullet hole D. The other half is in that small piece of he door which has been so much discussed as to how the cracks were made (not shown).

The second photo was taken after the plank was turned over as they processed the scene. It shows the bathroom facing, or front side of the plank.

The third photo was cropped by me to show a close up of the half of bullet hole D. Nell pointed out that there was ‘body tissue” on it. There is also, obviously, blood on it. The “kick mark” can be seen on the front side as well, above bullet hole C.

If you click through the gallery photos at the link, you can see that the blood trail is not smeared or disturbed.

I have more observations about the planks and pieces of wood in the bathroom, but this post is already long. So, have I driven myself bonkers with this? What am I missing? Maybe the police did it? If this is correct, surely it is obvious to Roux as well as the Prosecution. How can it be explained?

I am unfamiliar with the way the SA court system works as to making a case. Could this be revealed in closing argument? The evidence is in the record.
JMO

Link
http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2014/03/17/oscar-pistorius-crime-scene-photos-murder-trial

 

[TorisMom003]

Photo showing the keys in the door of the toilet room. If the keys were in the toilet room with Reeva I would expect to see blood on them somewhere. I can't see any though.

link for photo:


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-oscar-pistorius/story-e6frg6n6-1226870668352

 

[crasshopper]

One more...

What does "MOO" mean?

 

[TorisMom003]

One more...

What does "MOO" mean?

My Opinion Only

 

[Suthrnqt]

Beach, in the learned world (reviews, textbooks, etc), everyone uses "[...]" to indicate a snip of material extraneous to what is being commented on. I've been blithely following that practice. Please don't hesitate to correct me if that is not recognized form here.

RSBM

<snipped>

This is what is commonly used here on WS. hth