Trial Discussion Thread #32

[steveml]

I kind of got the idea that Dixon really didn't know how to handle firearms - doubtful a Taurus was jamming (I think that is the word he used) right out of the box or otherwise.

Reading up on the Taurus Parabellum, it's a double action/single action trigger mechanism - this in some way might explain why one of the four shots was further away. It also kind of does away with two double taps because of the first hard trigger pull.

Just to take the trigger action a little further, the way a DA/SA action works is that the first shot fired requires a heavier, longer pull of the trigger.
For all the subsequent shots dispensed via the magazine the trigger only needs a shorter, less heavy pull of the trigger to fire the remaining bullets.

Taurus are usually a reliable brand. For that reason they offer a lifetime warranty on their guns. If a gun is sold or passed on, the warranty stays with the gun regardless.

 

[weeeva]

Of course that makes no sense considering her jeans were outside beneath the bathroom window.

Has anybody here in their entire lives placed jeans on the ground outside their homes during a quiet evening at home?

Weird how she was shot the same night her jeans ended up on the sidewalk and the bathtub got dented and the bedroom door got broken down and the toilet door got smashed and neighbors all heard a woman's screams that weren't hers.

Only in Oscarworld...

If the bedroom door was broken down, why has it never been brought in as evidence?

 

[Nausicaa]

Yep, that's one of the theories regarding Captain Nolan, another being that he was shot in the chest cavity and the noise was air escaping. I guess we'll never know.


Psst. Try not to say too much about the Charge of the Light Brigade, as Lord Cardigan wrote in his own words that Captain Nolan rode 'screaming like a woman'.

We'll keep that between ourselves tho. :wink:

Lol - in fact Lord Cardigan made that comment after the battle to General Sir James Scarlett and I did think of it when drafting my post. I don't think there's any mileage in it for OP as it was an involuntary post-mortem scream and Lord Cardigan, who didn't realise that, found it quite incredible for a man to scream like that or indeed to scream at all when wounded. He was so outraged by it all that he testified at the enquiry that he had been unable to think of anything else throughout the charge! (But I expect you know all this.)
I hadn't heard the escaping air hypothesis and I don't find it very credible. If OP's DT had any real originality they would have thought of the explanation of the death scream in Agatha Christie's Hercule Poirot's Christmas. So much more credible. I won't spoil the story for anyone by mentioning what happens.

 

[Nausicaa]

If the bedroom door was broken down, why has it never been brought in as evidence?

There's only for room for so many doors in a court, Weeva, and the cleaning staff get fed up with having to polish them up for forensic analysis.

 

[IfIMay]

If the bedroom door was broken down, why has it never been brought in as evidence?

photos of it are in evidence. And OP's story of breaking BACK through it after he had just come from the other side.

 

[Viper]

Hi Viper, if your theory is right, what do you think the implications are re her death and OP's culpability? Sorry if you've already explained and I missed it.

Hi PatCee! BIB. Really not much at all. But remember that on this forum it has been argued for weeks on end about a pair of wrong side out jeans, so I don't think this subject matter is irrelevant in any way.

Some forum members have taken off on a journey to explain with great (fantastic) effort how this poor woman's heart was an exception to medical science and it continued beating for nine (9) minutes with the absense of breathing, brain function, and with her body gushing out blood with every heartbeat from two severed arteries. I strongly disagree.

For some reason Mr. Roux did not want the blood on the wall above the bed to be linked to Reeva being carried there, and Nest quickly said that it could have just been cast off from OPs hands. But Roux did not object to the portrait of Reeva's heart still beating as Reeva was being carried down the stairs - 25 minutes after she was shot, DT version, 3:00-3:25. And Mr. Nel does not object to Reeva's heart still beating 9 minutes after she was shot, PT version, 3:16-3:25. It is just her being alive and being carried to the bedside that bothers the DT, and it bothers the PT because they want to say OP did carry her there. So that is curious.

But for me, and likely others, I reject all of this struggling to make Reeva's heart stay alive for 9 minutes; without the two severed arteries medical science would estimate that Reeva's heart could continue to beat for 2-5 minutes, not more than that and certainly not 9 minutes as some are suggesting.

Now OP absolutely wants the court to believe that Reeva died in his arms as he carried her down the stairs, and all he has to do to prove that is use the same argument that some are using here - Roux can simply point to Nest saying that the blood over the railing was caused by arterial spurt and say that it could only be that if Reeva's heart was alive, beating and pumping blood through her body. If Nel wants to counter that he can refer to Saymaan saying that Reeva's heart would have died in a few minutes, and that is not 9 minutes and certainly not 25 minutes either.

 

[Irisha]

I'm so stuck on that bathroom window:facepalm: From this photo it does not look like OP had a screen in it, not found on ground, or in bathroom. And screens make alot of noise removing them.

http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/1.png

Why would Reeva open a window with no screen on the way to the bathroom? Does SA have no birds? I have never heard OP say anything about his doorwall having a screen when his doorwall was open . Do people in SA sleep with windows and doorwalls open with no screens to keep the birds and cats, squirrels, bats, creepy crawley's out? Just curious

no ladder to window with no screen. Therefore IMO he could not have heard anyone breaking in.:liar:

And why would a intruder pick a gated, heavily security monitored community with 2 cars at the home and choose to enter through a upstairs room. too much coffee, too many thoughts.

 

[sicknote]

Cast calls require the male lead actor to be able to scream like a woman

Unless Oscar is playing himself I don't think this is possible. Would they settle for a voice over? If so, who would get that part?

 

[kittychi]

Someone's IMDB dreamcast for the coming biopic;

'My dream cast for a Oscar Pistorius trial bio-pic:

1. Oscar - Ryan Gosling, Hayden Christensen or Guy Pearce. Wild card choice: Pauly Shore.
2. Gerrie Nel - Daniel Craig for sure. Or Mel Gibson. Wild card choice is Jim Carrey if he wants to reboot his career. Besides, he played a lawyer in Liar Liar.
3. Judge Thokozile Matilda Masipa - Lupita Nyong'o or Whoopi Goldberg.

Supporting roles could be filled by Barkhad "Captain Phillips" Abdi, Cameron Diaz (playing one of the defence lawyers) and Morgan Freeman.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2844006/board/thread/228228284


Of course, some people think only Oscar should play himself. He is probably one of those.

Cast calls require the male lead actor to be able to scream like a woman, say "everything is fine" while his beloved girlfriend is dying in front of him, and many other difficult acting abilties. Whoever plays Oscar could likely get an Oscar.

Oh and must be able to point a gun without aiming it.

And shoot a gun under a table without pulling the trigger.



Pauly Shore :silly:

.

 

[weeeva]

No, no one said that the tag was so faded that you couldn't read it. My eyes told me this when they showed a close up of the tag in court. Reeva's mom showed her own doubt that they were Reeva's jeans.

If there had been any quibble about who the jeans belonged to, I think this would have been sorted out before the case went to trial.

 

[lithgow1]

I'm so stuck on that bathroom window:facepalm: From this photo it does not look like OP had a screen in it, not found on ground, or in bathroom. And screens make alot of noise removing them.

http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/1.png

Why would Reeva open a window with no screen on the way to the bathroom? Does SA have no birds? I have never heard OP say anything about his doorwall having a screen when his doorwall was open . Do people in SA sleep with windows and doorwalls open with no screens to keep the birds and cats, squirrels, bats, creepy crawley's out? Just curious

no ladder to window with no screen. Therefore IMO he could not have heard anyone breaking in.:liar:

And why would a intruder pick a gated, heavily security monitored community with 2 cars at the home and choose to enter through a upstairs room. too much coffee, too many thoughts.

If I lived in South Africa I'd have screens to keep monkeys, black mambas and leopards out.

 

[patCee]

Hi PatCee! BIB. Really not much at all. But remember that on this forum it has been argued for weeks on end about a pair of wrong side out jeans, so I don't think this subject matter is irrelevant in any way.

Some forum members have taken off on a journey to explain with great (fantastic) effort how this poor woman's heart was an exception to medical science and it continued beating for nine (9) minutes with the absense of breathing, brain function, and with her body gushing out blood with every heartbeat from two severed arteries. I strongly disagree.

For some reason Mr. Roux did not want the blood on the wall above the bed to be linked to Reeva being carried there, and Nest quickly said that it could have just been cast off from OPs hands. But Roux did not object to the portrait of Reeva's heart still beating as Reeva was being carried down the stairs - 25 minutes after she was shot, DT version, 3:00-3:25. And Mr. Nel does not object to Reeva's heart still beating 9 minutes after she was shot, PT version, 3:16-3:25. It is just her being alive and being carried to the bedside that bothers the DT, and it bothers the PT because they want to say OP did carry her there. So that is curious.

But for me, and likely others, I reject all of this struggling to make Reeva's heart stay alive for 9 minutes; without the two severed arteries medical science would estimate that Reeva's heart could continue to beat for 2-5 minutes, not more than that and certainly not 9 minutes as some are suggesting.

Now OP absolutely wants the court to believe that Reeva died in his arms as he carried her down the stairs, and all he has to do to prove that is use the same argument that some are using here - Roux can simply point to Nest saying that the blood over the railing was caused by arterial spurt and say that it could only be that if Reeva's heart was alive, beating and pumping blood through her body. If Nel wants to counter that he can refer to Saymaan saying that Reeva's heart would have died in a few minutes, and that is not 9 minutes and certainly not 25 minutes either.

As someone with nil reliable medical knowledge I can understand the logic of what you are saying. So if OP wants to say she was alive when carried downstairs, I'm trying to understand the advantage to him. Unless it's

1) That he wanted to show he was trying to reach medical care for her.

2) The blood on the stairs, sofa and in the bedroom, particularly the headboard, would need to have another more sinister explanation.

 

[kittychi]

People here are (rightfully) still talking about the light issue.

I posted a satirical or biblical allegorical piece about why and when Op's story needs light or dark at that moment.,

I repost it here now as probably some of you missed it.

Let There Be Light © Shane13

In the beginning, there was light in the bedroom, as Oscar and Reeva argued for an hour.

Then Oscar said, ”Let there be Pitch Dark” and all was dark in his affidavit-world.
So Darkness had descended upon his bedroom.

But then his allibi-world needed some light and Oscar said, “Let there be LED—Blue.” And blue light descended upon his bedroom. So that Oscar could see Reeva allegedly in bed for a moment in time [like tears in the rain].

But then Oscar needed the Pitch Dark again, so that he could not see that Reeva was not in bed. So Oscar now said, ”Let there be Blue Denim Jeans” to bring forth Pitch Dark once again, in the bedroom. And so the blue light vanished, and there was pitch dark descended again upon the bedroom. And Oscar and Roux said all was good.

And because Oscar next needed noise and an excuse to chase after Reeva into the bathroom where she now hid for her dear life, Oscar said, ”Let there be a noise of opening a window in the bathroom. And lo and behold, a miracle occurred, and the bathroom window opened upon itself!

And Oscar then said all was good—I mean bad. And then Oscar descended upon the alleged intruders. And with great [self-]righteousness, Oscar slayed the alleged intruder trapped behind the loo door.

And as he soon allegedly cradled his actual victim, poor Reeva, in his arms, Mr Baba called from on high, and asked Oscar, what was going on at his home, as people heard gunshots,
and Oscar then said, ”Everything is Fine.”

And later there was Nel to bring back the light, we all hope…
And if not, let the People in their wisdom bring light to this, for Reeva deserves the light of truth and justice.

Let there be light.

thank you for re-posting, Shane, I missed it the first time (thought I'd read everything!)

A Gold Star for your brilliance! :star2:

 

[shane13]

And shoot a gun under a table without pulling the trigger.



Pauly Shore :silly:

.

Did you see those choices for Nel? Daniel Craig or Mel Gibson.

Who would you have for Roux?

Is there a Pacino role or DeNiro role here? Or are they too old now?

I guess Charlize Theron is certain for Reeva being blonde and SAn.

And who shall play everyone's favorite geologist, Dixon?

 

[soozieqtips]

Has anyone explained how it was possible for OP to be kneeling down on his stumps when he reached the bathroom door? How does one kneel on stumps?

ETA - okay, he has knee joints which allow him to kneel - but only a couple of inches I imagine.

 

[shane13]

thank you for re-posting, Shane, I missed it the first time (thought I'd read everything!)

A Gold Star for your brilliance! :star2:

Wow.
Thank you kindly.

 

[soozieqtips]

Did you see those choices for Nel? Daniel Craig or Mel Gibson.

Who would you have for Roux?

Is there a Pacino role or DeNiro role here? Or are they too old now?

I guess Charlize Theron is certain for Reeva being blonde and SAn.

And who shall play everyone's favorite geologist, Dixon?

BBM - Peter Sellers if he wasn't dead!

 

[Viper]

LOL back at you! You aren't getting off that easy either
If the blood spatter experts say the areas in question were incorrectly described as arterial spurts then so be it but compression/decompression could not imo recreate the pathognomonic undulations characteristic of an arterial spurt. Blood could be ejected but not with that pulsatile pattern. I'll wait for further testimony and so we have more information.

If you could provide the source where Nest changes his mind, that would be great too.

Edit: I do take issue when you use terms like "impossible," because one just doesn't know nor have we heard the experts discuss this at length.

From the link, quote:
"He said Steenkamp's long hair was bloodsoaked, as were her shorts which both held large bodies of blood, which mainly contributed to the drip trail."

"The railings appeared to have been brushed by Steenkamp's hair."

I believe that the S pattern could have easily been created by blood that was compressed through Reeva's body, just the movement and squeezing of her body as OP began walking down the steps, her weight in his arms would go up and down. BTW In a much early post you agreed with that.

But also her hair was thick with blood and OP was obviously very close to or even balancing on the railing as he struggled to carry Reeva down the steps. So it is possible that her dangling blood soaked hair created that pattern too.

From the link, quote:
"Defence advocate Barry Roux asked the colonel if it was possible if blood on Pistorius's hands could have spattered onto walls and other surfaces while in motion.

Van der Nest said it was."

Others will have to give you Nest's prior testimony where he said that the blood over the bed was caused by arterial spatter.


http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/analyst-explains-reeva-s-blood-trail-1.1663753#.U1qBH7-9LTq

 

[TorisMom003]

I'm so stuck on that bathroom window:facepalm: From this photo it does not look like OP had a screen in it, not found on ground, or in bathroom. And screens make alot of noise removing them.

http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/1.png

Why would Reeva open a window with no screen on the way to the bathroom? Does SA have no birds? I have never heard OP say anything about his doorwall having a screen when his doorwall was open . Do people in SA sleep with windows and doorwalls open with no screens to keep the birds and cats, squirrels, bats, creepy crawley's out? Just curious

no ladder to window with no screen. Therefore IMO he could not have heard anyone breaking in.:liar:

And why would a intruder pick a gated, heavily security monitored community with 2 cars at the home and choose to enter through a upstairs room. too much coffee, too many thoughts.

There are no screens on any of the windows in OP's house at all.

 

[crasshopper]

Let me follow up on my post here.
I am pretty sure Mr Baba testified that Mr Stander told him not to go to OP's house.
Also I am pretty sure that OP had phoned Stander before this directive to Baba--otherwise why tell Baba not to go there?

I'm going to find this testimony. Truly compelling, especially as the police had yet to be called.

Does anyone know who ultimately called the police and when or how they arrived on the scene?