Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[patCee]

I didn't think he was allowed back to the estate :dunno:. I must have missed that somewhere along the line though I have been plumbed in here for a year. If you have a link I would really appreciate it but meanwhile I will put Google into action.

Yep, I missed it. I have just read the findings of the challenge to bail conditons and he was allowed back onto the estate. I don't think he has lived there again as he still seems to be living with Uncle Pistorius. Thank you for pointing that out.

There you go...

Pistorius wins bail conditions appeal - YouTube

 

[Magdalyn]

Oh my lord. We now have women trying to sound like oscar sounding like a woman.

This sounds like a 80s Julie Andrews movie plot! Oscar Osctoria! :drumroll:

ETA: Haha you beat me, Colonel Mustard!

 

[Trooper]

Another thought that has tap danced on my shoulder since yesterday.

Are there any talks taking place behind the scenes. I find yesterday's interruptions weird. I also find Gerrie's 'calm and almost secretive' manner interesting.

I realize there could be many reasons for the almost 'surreal' 2 days of brief witness testimony and early breaks. I also believe there might have been some sort of 'move' by the DT; a 'feeler' as it were. Not sure. But I do believe something was afoot.

Perhaps an approach by the defense that the state spurned? It offers an alternative as to why Barry only had two witnesses available both yesterday and today.



Barry himself had stated before the 2 week 'vacation' that the their 'next witness' was going to be giving detailed and scientific evidence - Wolmarans the ballistician I would guess. Yet HE (who has been in court daily since the start) is suddenly MIA?

Anyone else think some sort of tentative approach might have been made, which was spurned by the state?

I am nearly convinced of it.. a change in the plea ,perhaps. a deal if a lower charge is set.. I cant see it happening, though.. Nel is on a roll and there is no reason for him to deal.. plenty of reasons for Roux to try it on ,though. a good lawyer would do it, even against a clients mad instruction.. I don't know if it can even be done under the current statute.. I do not understand why Westy and Wollly didn't take the stand immediately today.. no idea why Roux fluffed around with N and Mrs N and the other woman .. . nutso stuff.

 

[Trooper]

Another thought that has tap danced on my shoulder since yesterday.

Are there any talks taking place behind the scenes. I find yesterday's interruptions weird. I also find Gerrie's 'calm and almost secretive' manner interesting.
I realize there could be many reasons for the almost 'surreal' 2 days of brief witness testimony and early breaks. I also believe there might have been some sort of 'move' by the DT; a 'feeler' as it were. Not sure. But I do believe something was afoot.

Perhaps an approach by the defense that the state spurned? It offers an alternative as to why Barry only had two witnesses available both yesterday and today.

Barry himself had stated before the 2 week 'vacation' that the their 'next witness' was going to be giving detailed and scientific evidence - Wolmarans the ballistician I would guess. Yet HE (who has been in court daily since the start) is suddenly MIA?

Anyone else think some sort of tentative approach might have been made, which was spurned by the state?

BBM for emphasis..

hell yes.. Gerrie is almost coy and flirtatious, considering his normal mode of x-exam... he is also in great haste..

 

[BritsKate]

Another thought that has tap danced on my shoulder since yesterday.

Are there any talks taking place behind the scenes. I find yesterday's interruptions weird. I also find Gerrie's 'calm and almost secretive' manner interesting.

I realize there could be many reasons for the almost 'surreal' 2 days of brief witness testimony and early breaks. I also believe there might have been some sort of 'move' by the DT; a 'feeler' as it were. Not sure. But I do believe something was afoot.

Perhaps an approach by the defense that the state spurned? It offers an alternative as to why Barry only had two witnesses available both yesterday and today.

Barry himself had stated before the 2 week 'vacation' that the their 'next witness' was going to be giving detailed and scientific evidence - Wolmarans the ballistician I would guess. Yet HE (who has been in court daily since the start) is suddenly MIA?

Anyone else think some sort of tentative approach might have been made, which was spurned by the state?

RBBM

I want to think so because I believe he's guiltier than sin of intentional homicide but I honestly feel Oscar is incapable of accepting true culpability for anything. Any 'deal' with the State for a lesser conviction would require Oscar assume and accept responsibility for his actions...so no, I don't think so. I think Roux probably knows how this case will turn out and is doing his best, with what he has, simply to mitigate damage. Maybe he's hoping to pull a rabbit...I certainly doubt some rather surprising acquittals were foreseen by the defence attorneys trying those cases.

I've always believed if the events really occurred as Oscar stated, and he truly felt actual remorse and responsibility over those events, his best legal strategy would have been to admit culpable homicide and throw himself at the mercy of the court. Because of his testimony alone, the credibility required to possibly acquit him of the more serious charges, is now called into doubt. He's risked everything by not admitting anything.

All MOO

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-pistorius-reevas-friend-sleep-night/

Aislinn Liang tweet about that:

Pistorius added: "I walk past them in corridors and hold doors open for them but they don't look me in the eye."

Sounds like OP purposely places himself in close proximity to people he knows believe he murdered Reeva and want no part of him. He's despicable.

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

"Pistorius was challenged by a Blooomberg journalist that he saw him speak to Myers. He shook his head and said: "I've heard that one."

If there is any confirmation of an approach from independent "witnesses" (Journos for sure, even if the police are considered less than truthful), the 'runner' might have a case to answer.

Let us see where this leads. I'm guessing Oscar will be using the "I'm on pills and doped up" excuse for this one.

 

[soozieqtips]

I don't know if it will matter but...

Mandy Wiener ‏@MandyWiener 1h
I'm told #KimMyers was 'shocked' and didn't respond. Comment was overheard by a member of the investigating team and journalists.

https://twitter.com/MandyWiener

I imagine OP will twist it round to say he meant it as 'How do you sleep at night...... when I can't sleep at night because I miss my baba so much'.

What a bullying intimidating coward he is. No redeeming features at all, and still not a shred of remorse for his actions if he really spoke like that to Kim. Makes me wonder if poor old Frank got a similar tone of voice to make sure he continued to remain 'deaf' about that night... or else.

 

[DebinGA]

Agreed.

The couples actually heard/were woken by events surrounding an actual homicide...gunshots, bangs, screams....and all check in with each other, checked children, were circumspect/cautious in response.

OP heard what he though was a window opening? Wood moving? According to his version, he proceeded to commit homicide in response to window noise.

... and claims to leaving Reeva alone in pitch black darkness without a word of explanation other than "Get down" and "Call police".

 

[Trooper]

I imagine OP will twist it round to say he meant it as 'How do you sleep at night...... when I can't sleep at night because I miss my baba so much'.

What a bullying intimidating coward he is. No redeeming features at all, and still not a shred of remorse for his actions if he really spoke like that to Kim. Makes me wonder if poor old Frank got a similar tone of voice to make sure he continued to remain 'deaf' about that night... or else.

Wouldn't surprise me if Frank was back in Malawi going under the name of Tiny Abele.

 

[Val1]

I didn't think he was allowed back to the estate :dunno:. I must have missed that somewhere along the line though I have been plumbed in here for a year. If you have a link I would really appreciate it but meanwhile I will put Google into action.

Yep, I missed it. I have just read the findings of the challenge to bail conditons and he was allowed back onto the estate. I don't think he has lived there again as he still seems to be living with Uncle Pistorius. Thank you for pointing that out.

Here's the link of what Roux argued and won re OP's bail conditions... certainly seems like he was granted "special" consideration imo.

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2013-03-28-oscar-pistorius-have-passport-will-travel/

 

[Viper]

Another thought that has tap danced on my shoulder since yesterday.

Are there any talks taking place behind the scenes. I find yesterday's interruptions weird. I also find Gerrie's 'calm and almost secretive' manner interesting.

I realize there could be many reasons for the almost 'surreal' 2 days of brief witness testimony and early breaks. I also believe there might have been some sort of 'move' by the DT; a 'feeler' as it were. Not sure. But I do believe something was afoot.

Perhaps an approach by the defense that the state spurned? It offers an alternative as to why Barry only had two witnesses available both yesterday and today.

Barry himself had stated before the 2 week 'vacation' that the their 'next witness' was going to be giving detailed and scientific evidence - Wolmarans the ballistician I would guess. Yet HE (who has been in court daily since the start) is suddenly MIA?

Anyone else think some sort of tentative approach might have been made, which was spurned by the state?

Yes, but it was during the two week break. Remember that Nel added that extra week to the one week break that was already planned. In my mind Roux was offering Culpable Homicide but Nel refused anything less than Murder and 25 years. But since it did not happen yesterday I am of the opinion that OP is going for it and risking that Life Sentence on his ability to appeal the crap out of a conviction and remain free on bond.

 

[Val1]

Oscar and Roux were shouting about the police messing with the crime scene. They were going to show the discrepancies in the pictures. Wonder how that's coming along......

I have to admit I'd like to know just who and what the two officers that were first on scene were doing... re Ms.Stander's testimony, I believe that was the thrust of that for the DT, the character buildup was just a bonus. However, there was that matter of her and OP's sister stealing RS's handbag from the crime scene...

 

[soozieqtips]

Yes, but it was during the two week break. Remember that Nel added that extra week to the one week break that was already planned. In my mind Roux was offering Culpable Homicide but Nel refused anything less than Murder and 25 years. But since it did not happen yesterday I am of the opinion that OP is going for it and risking that Life Sentence on his ability to appeal the crap out of a conviction and remain free on bond.

BBM - see, that's where I start to lose the plot. If he's convicted of murder, he should stay the hell behind bars and not be released unless his appeal is successful. He's already had over a year's freedom, so why should he be allowed a single extra day if he's convicted? Appeals can go on forever. How the hell are Reeva's family supposed to move on with their tattered lives knowing he's living his life out there in the open as a convicted murderer! And don't other women have the right to be kept safe from him? The law is ridiculous sometimes.

 

[Magdalyn]

Well that session was another circus of comedy !
How can close neighbours hear a man crying ,yet no one heard 4 gunshots which we know were clearly fired ?

I slept through a home invasion/shoot-out/tires pealing, etc in my last neighborhood (and it wasn't a bad neighborhood, just bad neighbor w/druggie friends--we've since moved, lol.)

I woke up the next morning, made my coffee, looked out the front window...dozens of police cars, crime scene tape across the end of my driveway, CSI looking for, IDK, bullet casings? K9 units sniffing in back yards.

It happened around 2-3 am. Some other neighbors heard it when it was happening. Some of us slept through it. I'm not a particularly heavy sleeper, but sleep through it I did. And there was only one house between us, and we lived on a cul-de-sac.

An aside-my hubby is a musician for fun. Was at a gig that night...came home after the cops arrived...middle of the night, cop cars everywhere, red and blue lights blazing, CRIME SCENE TAPE across the end of OUR driveway. He thought for a second his family had been slaughtered while he was gone. But the good man let us sleep blissfully unaware once he figured out what happened.

 

[Viper]

RBBM

I want to think so because I believe he's guiltier than sin of intentional homicide but I honestly feel Oscar is incapable of accepting true culpability for anything. Any 'deal' with the State for a lesser conviction would require Oscar assume and accept responsibility for his actions...so no, I don't think so. I think Roux probably knows how this case will turn out and is doing his best, with what he has, simply to mitigate damage. Maybe he's hoping to pull a rabbit...I certainly doubt some rather surprising acquittals were foreseen by the defence attorneys trying those cases.

I've always believed if the events really occurred as Oscar stated, and he truly felt actual remorse and responsibility over those events, his best legal strategy would have been to admit culpable homicide and throw himself at the mercy of the court. Because of his testimony alone, the credibility required to possibly acquit him of the more serious charges, is now called into doubt. He's risked everything by not admitting anything.

All MOO

At the bail hearing Roux was trying to get Nair to charge OP with Culpable Homicide, even then!

No, OP is going to go for the Gold Medal here. LOL!!!

 

[wb180]

BBM - see, that's where I start to lose the plot. If he's convicted of murder, he should stay the hell behind bars and not be released unless his appeal is successful. He's already had over a year's freedom, so why should he be allowed a single extra day if he's convicted? Appeals can go on forever. How the hell are Reeva's family supposed to move on with their tattered lives knowing he's living his life out there in the open as a convicted murderer! And don't other women have the right to be kept safe from him? The law is ridiculous sometimes.

Hopefully the Judge delivers a watertight judgement on the law so there are no errors of law for appeal!

Hope this gets better or this ends quickly - there hasn't been much websleuthing lately with the current crop of witnesses...oh wells

 

[DebinGA]

If anyone knows the criteria in SA for convicted felons being allowed to remain free during their appeals, I'd appreciate seeing it. I'd imagine one requirement would be their not representing a danger to the community, which imo OP clearly does. Ditto not fleeing the country, which imo OP certainly will.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Re Annette Stipp's evidence

I quickly looked though the transcript of her testimony while we wait for Roux to get his witness to the courthouse (g-r-r-r-r-r) and I can't see that she testified to hearing 'help' x3 at any point.

Lisa covers all of her evidence here

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/24/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-14/

 

[whiterum]

I imagine OP will twist it round to say he meant it as 'How do you sleep at night...... when I can't sleep at night because I miss my baba so much'.

What a bullying intimidating coward he is. No redeeming features at all, and still not a shred of remorse for his actions if he really spoke like that to Kim. Makes me wonder if poor old Frank got a similar tone of voice to make sure he continued to remain 'deaf' about that night... or else.

He told a sky news reporter that he did not say anything at all to the Myers adding he hasn't spoken to them in weeks. So everyone is a liar except him of course.