Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[Nausicaa]

Yes, I thought this was really interesting. There was some debate as to whether Nel should have objected or whether he would mention it in Chambers at some point.

I find Judge Greenland to be fascinating to listen to. He has tremendous clarity of thought and a wealth of knowledge and experience to draw on.

I can't see the admissibility problem. At the very least the words quoted appear to imply that OP thought at the time that it was OK deliberately to shoot putative intruders dead in the absence of any signs of aggression on their part, without either seeing them or hearing them speak.

They also show (what everyone knows) that OP had not yet invented the panic-deprived-me-of-responsibility-for-my-actions idea. He had seized on the self-defence notion as a good hope. He hadn't yet realized that you can be convicted of murdering even an intruder and he hadn't yet spotted the idea of denying any volition of any form.

 

[Murphys_Law]

In fairness to OP. If he did believe an intruder had entered his bathroom, it's not as if he can call a 'time out' to put his prostheses on. I think going for the gun would be a reasonable thing to do.

Not checking on Reeva however...

Giles last year I posted a CNN/Robyn Curnow interview with OP. At the 1 minute mark he demonstrated how quickly he could put on his prosthetic legs. I timed the action --- it took less than 2 sec per leg ..I don't think I can put on my shoes that fast.

Here's the post
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - General Discussion Thread #3

but unfortunately CNN or Robyn has removed the video.

 

[sleuth-d-]

One question I wish Nel asked OP. How many times have you fired a gun on your stumps? Was this OP's first time? Has he ever been at the firing range and taken off his prosthetics?


JMO

did nel ever ask s taylor how much time he spent walking around the house on his stumps during their relationship? for instance... when getting out of bed in the night?

will have to look at that section again.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Just waiting for someone to make the suggestion that OP, out of the goodness of his welcome wagon heart and god fearing soul, must've been covering for the mia Frank... and that's why OP is soooo insistent that he is innocent of all charges.:facepalm:

Love it!

 

[Val1]

If the gunshots were at about 03:13 or 03:14 and OP called Stander at 03:19 there would be plenty of time to think.

bbm - Perhaps that's what that first gprs on his cell was about, seeing his old post about the washing machine and then calling Stander with his excuse(lie), the rest just followed, lie after lie, each harder to remember when asked about out of order.

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-15-state-rests/

February 14

01:48:48 – GPRS – 309 seconds – tower closest to Oscar’s (the remaining are all on the same tower as well)

03:18:45 – GPRS – 75 seconds

03:19:03 – Outgoing call to 2251 (Johan Stander) – 24 seconds

 

[james83]

In fairness to OP. If he did believe an intruder had entered his bathroom, it's not as if he can call a 'time out' to put his prostheses on. I think going for the gun would be a reasonable thing to do.

Not checking on Reeva however...

If there really was an armed intruder in that bathroom and Oscar went off on his stumps shouting on his way down the passage in all likely hood Oscar would have ended up dead, would you agree?.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Just waiting for someone to make the suggestion that OP, out of the goodness of his welcome wagon heart and god fearing soul, must've been covering for the mia Frank... and that's why OP is soooo insistent that he is innocent of all charges.:facepalm:

how can frank have been so successfully 'wiped' from the whole proceedings up to this point? i would be very interested to know where exactly his room/suite is in relation to the house/kitchen.

 

[Val1]

Giles last year I posted a CNN/Robyn Curnow interview with OP. At the 1 minute mark he demonstrated how quickly he could put on his prosthetic legs. I timed the action --- it took less than 2 sec per leg ..I don't think I can put on my shoes that fast.

Here's the post
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - General Discussion Thread #3

but unfortunately CNN or Robyn has removed the video.

If you watch at 1:00, it still shows him putting one on, literally a few seconds...
http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2013/02/14/pkg-pistorius-home-curnow.cnn

 

[TorisMom003]

In fairness to OP. If he did believe an intruder had entered his bathroom, it's not as if he can call a 'time out' to put his prostheses on. I think going for the gun would be a reasonable thing to do.

Not checking on Reeva however...

OP was standing right next to his prosthetic legs when he heard the window being open in the bathroom. He was closer to them then he was to his gun which was on the other side of the bed and near the top/pillows of the bed.

 

[Emz73]

He is 5ft 1 inch on his stumps taller than many so called able bodied folks and I simply do not believe that he is that unsteady on his stumps, I have worked with people who have disabilities and they have an amazing capacity to adapt to their handicap particularly those who suffered their handicap early in life

I wonder how the others who he has competed against, are on their stumps? His stumps do look very thin compared to his upper body. Though people on stilts have great balance.

 

[crasshopper]

RBSM

OP also said that if anyone said that he went out on the balcony that night, that they would be lying.

The irony was lost on him and it was a beautiful thing to watch.

 

[Zinn]

Has either side ever mentioned obtaining data from the alarm company to confirm when the alarm was armed and disarmed that evening and/or morning? IIRC, OP was asked about the alarm system and sensors and when he armed/disarmed the alarm, but I've never heard a reference to supporting data from the alarm company.

 

[Emz73]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=onX7NJguuHc

Dwayne Fernandes walking and running on his stumps. He comments on a posters question about OP not being able to balance on his stumps. He says its unlikely he cant balance.

 

[Cymbaline]

February 14

01:48:48 – GPRS – 309 seconds – tower closest to Oscar’s (the remaining are all on the same tower as well)

03:18:45 – GPRS – 75 seconds

03:19:03 – Outgoing call to 2251 (Johan Stander) – 24 seconds

BBM

The February 14th 01:48AM – GPRS – 309 seconds
Could be a WhatsApp message to Frank.


Hey Frank, we're hungry.


JMO

 

[Feynman]

It would be logical to use the correct figures don't you agree? I am assuming you are speaking of the Burger/Johnson's that are 177 meters away not 3 football fields and not the Stipps that were only 72 meters.

So if you are familiar with "hard science" are you saying there is no way those folks heard what happened that night? And if that's the case why has OP had to explain away the exact noises that they heard.

Sorry that should have been 2 football fields. Yes, Burger/Johnson.

I brought up the hard sciences only as disciplines where you are constantly forced to challenge your own ideas/beliefs/suppositions, because if you don't, one of your peers will, and sooner rather than later. It was intended as a general comment about common sense, confirmation bias and the like - although it looks like I failed in getting my point across.

 

[Apollo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=onX7NJguuHc

Dwayne Fernandes walking and running on his stumps. He comments on a posters question about OP not being able to balance on his stumps. He says its unlikely he cant balance.

Very informative!! Thanks for posting that link.

 

[toevlugsoord]

This makes me suspect that Frank did indeed hear the whole thing but is too frightened to testify because he knows he will never work again and he knows how many friends in high places OP has (or should I being saying 'had' given the direction of travel?)

He has therefore taken the only way out he can think of which is to claim he slept through the whole thing.

Given he was awake and fully dressed outside the house before Carice and Papa Stander arrived, it seems highly unlikely slept through and heard nothing.

Completely agree.
The country loves (loved?) OP and he probably figures he'd be completely shunned if he was the one who puts OP in jail with his testimony.

Very concerning and very very frustrating!

 

[Paysee]

I think it proves that the witnesses who thought they heard a woman screaming - actually heard Oscar wailing, loud crying, or whatever you want to call it.

How is this proof? It is just another witness' testimony.

Is this your opinion as a verified attorney or your opinion as a pistorius supporter?

 

[Interested Bystander]

Has either side ever mentioned obtaining data from the alarm company to confirm when the alarm was armed and disarmed that evening and/or morning? IIRC, OP was asked about the alarm system and sensors and when he armed/disarmed the alarm, but I've never heard a reference to supporting data from the alarm company.

Good point. Our alarm records every setting, entry, exit, incorrect code etc. There may be a record there unless it was not that sophisticated. I confess I was a little surprised to hear that there was just one button to activate and deactivate it (Stander stated this).

 

[Feynman]

I have no idea how this pertains to this case???

My comment was on "innocent until proven guilty" in the US, which had arisen as a brief side topic.