Trial Discussion Thread #35 - 14.05.08 Day 28

[jay-jay]

Yes, Nel has picked up on the 'anxiety/fearful' delay on gastric emptying thing ..

 

[zwiebel]

Witness just conceded there is no evidence of any other factors.

Nel slips in that if Reeva was upset/distressed/anxious, would that have slowed emptying?

Witness concedes that is possible.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Sayman says on what he's seen it's less than 3 hours before. That's more probable.

She says it's not advisable to estimate the amount of food before death.

If the deceased was involved in a long argument before death, that would have affected gastric emptying.

She says if patient was emotional, fearful - yes.

She keeps going back to the components of the meal. If you've had a lot of liquid, that would have emptied.

N: Talking about the emptying re anxiousness. She keeps talking about meal components.

N: Even if she became anxious after the meal, that could delay emptying ... Yes.

 

[jay-jay]

I don't see why she is arguing with Nel over the point about 'anxiety' .. although the DT have brought her in, she isn't there to fight their corner, she is there to give her professional opinion.

 

[zwiebel]

N: Even is somebody becomes anxious after the meal, that factor would delay grastric emptying?

And there goes my feed. I just caught witness saying "It could" as it came back.

 

[supernovaNic]

I'm so lost. Why is Nel bringing up anxiety causing delay. Delay doesn't work in his favor, right?

 

[zwiebel]

N: No indication of any diseases?

CL: Correct:

Nel going thru prescrip meds etc and witness says no evidence of any of these factors.

 

[Warren Levine]

Wow, that was quite a lot of stomach contents Reeva had left .. 200ml .. Nel is saying she would've had to eaten and drunk 2ltrs which is massive. If they had eaten at 8pm there's no way there would be that much left in her stomach, surely.

A few summers ago I became so dehydrated I passed out waiting to pick up my son from school. Police were on the scene and gave me a 2L bottle of water they had in their cruiser. Not only could I not lift it, but I couldn't drink 1/4 of it and at the time I went about 280 lbs. I ended up pouring half the bottle over my head and I probably drank a total of about a liter.
Reeva weighed what? 140? If she drank 2L of water, she'd become distended and she'd probably pass out from having her blood diluted.

 

[zwiebel]

I'm so lost. Why is Nel bringing up anxiety causing delay. Delay doesn't work in his favor, right?

Trying to cover all bases, I think....

 

[jay-jay]

Nel trying to make the point that pre-menopausal women aren't given extra advice pre-operation that their gastric emptying would be longer and that they might need to fast for longer before an op .. and therefore the fact Reeva was pre-menopausal is irrelevant.

ETA ^^ he didn't actually say all this, but that is what he was suggesting when he referred to the huge numbers of operations that must be carried out on a day to day basis on pre-menopausal women.

 

[jimmy73]

I'm so lost. Why is Nel bringing up anxiety causing delay. Delay doesn't work in his favor, right?

He's covering his bases. Either RS was awake and ate later than OP's testimony states, or there is the potential that anxiety or an argument could have slowed gastric emptying.

 

[Warren Levine]

N: Even is somebody becomes anxious after the meal, that factor would delay grastric emptying?

And there goes my feed. I just caught witness saying "It could" as it came back.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor.../Watch-live-Oscar-Pistorius-murder-trial.html

 

[JudgeJudi]

Nel: We had 200ml of food in her stomach after 8 hours. That must mean something and that Sayman is correct ... She says that's speculative.

Nel: His evidence is more probable? She says it's speculative.

 

[jay-jay]

A few summers ago I became so dehydrated I passed out waiting to pick up my son from school. Police were on the scene and gave me a 2L bottle of water they had in their cruiser. Not only could I not lift it, but I couldn't drink 1/4 of it and at the time I went about 280 lbs. I ended up pouring half the bottle over my head and I probably drank a total of about a liter.
Reeva weighed what? 140? If she drank 2L of water, she'd become distended and she'd probably pass out from having her blood diluted.

I'm wondering if stomach acid might've made up some of the volume of Reeva's 200ml stomach contents, I'm not sure .. ?

 

[Jim Kirk]

I don't see why she is arguing with Nel over the point about 'anxiety' .. although the DT have brought her in, she isn't there to fight their corner, she is there to give her professional opinion.

Because Nel is expecting a particular answer when he's asking the wrong question.

She stated very clearly that delay can be determined by the contents of the meal.

Nel was insisting that delay could/would have occurred with anxiety/fear regardless of meal contents, so yes, she was right to correct him.

 

[zwiebel]

N: You said, after 6hrs fasting after THIS meaal, her stomach should probably have been empty.

CL: That's correct.

N: But we had 250ml of recognizable food...that must mean something?

CL: That's speculative and I'm not prepared to comment.....I'm not a forensic pathologist. All I can do is go on the literature...Knight says it's speculative...

 

[zwiebel]

N: You're not willing to say Saayman was wrong?

CL: I'm willing to say that's his opinion. He's entitled to his opinion. I'm entitled to mine.

Nel asks if there is anything court should reject as unlikely and witness says "That is up to court to decide."

Roux up.

 

[zwiebel]

According to Roux's calculations re prof S's evidence, Reeva must have eaten 5litres of food!

 

[JudgeJudi]

Hubby just brought me my dinner. What a nice kind man. Witness finished. Tea break.

 

[Warren Levine]

I'm wondering if stomach acid might've made up some of the volume of Reeva's 200ml stomach contents, I'm not sure .. ?

If they would flipping release the autopsy report, we wouldn't be left guessing and speculating. Foux Roux should also be calling experts who are experts in the fields they're supposed to be testifying about. Damn, they could call me as an expert in international transportation and Customs regulations, but I'm not a bloody forensic pathologist either!