Trial Discussion Thread #36 - 14.05.09 Day 29

[katydid23]

How many minutes, minimum, between last shot and phone call? I think that's your answer.

If you'd like to read discussion by gun owners about indoor shooting and ear damage... calguns.net/calgunsforum. (Search. " ear damage from shooting indoors)

First hand experiences, docs weighing in......nobody there being accused of a crime

BBM- I am not sure of the amount of time yet, because am not convinced which set of batshots contained the kill shot.

However, as noted in posts upthread, there were screams reported BEFORE the shooting began. He was not deaf then.

Also, according to his own testimony, he immediately began calling out to her after the shooting, and ' she did not answer.' So that right there refutes his claim that he was deaf at the time. :moo:

 

[Hope4More]

BBM - why is it surprising? He shot until the screaming stopped according to witnesses. Once the 'intruder' was dead, he didn't need to waste any more bullets.

Logical fallacy. That screaming stopped after shots (taking that at face value) doesn't mean the shots stopped because he didn't hear screams anymore. That is an inference on your part, based on your assumption that he could in fact hear.

 

[jay-jay]

I wish we knew what "the hurdle" was. Here's Reeva's encouraging msg to OP that last afternoon:

"You are an amazing person with so many blessings," "and you are more than cared for. Your health and future monetary blessings far out way this hurdle I can promise u that."

I wonder if it was the tax thing then .. because it's v.odd that she just so happens to mention monetary blessings there. It's not something you would normally say just out of the blue.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Then I don't see how Roux (Defense) can be wrapped up by Tuesday. I can't imagine that Nel is going to ask the psychologist only a handful of questions as he did with the first 4 or so witnesses.

MOO

Totally agree, Nel is quite clearly expecting this and will be ready to counter defence witness testimony which is why the states psychologist was observing OP in court.

 

[Hope4More]

BBM- I am not sure of the amount of time yet, because am not convinced which set of batshots contained the kill shot.

However, as noted in posts upthread, there were screams reported BEFORE the shooting began. He was not deaf then.

Also, according to his own testimony, he immediately began calling out to her after the shooting, and ' she did not answer.' So that right there refutes his claim that he was deaf at the time. :moo:

What he said about her not answering doesn't mean that he wasn't still at least somewhat deafened and/or having tinnitus, pumped up to the max with adreline, freaked, and not assessing anything very clearly.

 

[lithgow1]

Logical fallacy. That screaming stopped after shots (taking that at face value) doesn't mean the shots stopped because he didn't hear screams anymore. That is an inference on your part, based on your assumption that he could in fact hear.

I think we can take it that screaming stopped after the shots on more than 'face value' if it's the victim's screams you are referring to. A Black Talon bullet to the head would tend to stop the anguished screams the hits to the hip and arm had generated.

But I know nothing about guns so maybe, since you do seem aware, how do you think he was holding his firearm at the time of the shots? By his side as he says or in the way I'd do it if I had a gun and thought an intruder was about to come at me - with both hands and pointed out from my chest, just like they used to do on Charlie's Angels.

 

[BritsKate]

Yes, I don't understand why he would've screamed (espesh like a woman) either. In his version, shout, yes (shouting at the perceived intruder) and then wailing on realising it was Reeva he shot, but screaming?? The woman's screams as described by the ear witnesses are screams of a woman in fear of her life .. in OP's version there would be no need to be screaming like that, he would've been shouting first then wailing and crying later, but never ever screaming for fear of his life because he was never confronted by anyone that would've put him in the situation where he was screaming for his life, not even the 'wood moving' noise would've made him scream for fear of his life because he was in complete control of the gun. So when and why, exactly, was OP supposed to have screamed like a woman who was screaming blue murder for her life?

RBBM

For me, it breaks down like this:

- He was screaming like a woman at an intruder while Reeva remained completely mute and never called police for approximately 15 minutes. When he didn't have time to think and it all happened so fast.

- He was screaming like a woman at Reeva, while also yelling like a man, for approximately 15 minutes. Reeva again remained completely mute.

- It was Reeva screaming for approximately 15 minutes with Oscar occasionally shouting/yelling. Her screams became more desperate as the intensity of the situation escalated.

And then of course, once he's "broken down the door" (immediately following the second set of bang shots - when witnesses describe her final scream fading) he manages to pull himself together, at seeing Reeva, because he doesn't see the point in screaming.

Alrighty, then.

 

[jay-jay]

Oh, and perhaps Reeva got to know a little too much about his financial stuff that night and didn't like it/didn't like being involved with someone who wasn't playing it straight in that respect .. that could've been a relationship deal breaker (I know it's something that has been for me in the past because I didn't want to be part of someone else's fraudulent activities) and then he got scared because he felt she knew too much about him and could wreck him if it got out?

 

[DebinGA]

I wonder if it was the tax thing then .. because it's v.odd that she just so happens to mention monetary blessings there. It's not something you would normally say just out of the blue.

As OP said during direct, public image is everything when it comes to professional athletes' earnings. His unsportsmanlike response to losing the 200m race in early September surely cost him some sponsors. Then the publicity around the fracas he instigated with the fellow he accused of dating ST in his absence, followed by the publicity re threatening to break Mark Batchelor's legs, then in Jan. the publicity re the Tasha's incident combined to seriously threaten his future earnings imo. A good reputation once lost is hard to regain, especially for a selfish, self-absorbed, public relations creation like Oscar Pistorius.

 

[jay-jay]

Once he began shooting, he stated the ringing in his ears made him unable to hear anything. So, yes.

However, when Nel asked if he heard screaming (Reeva) , he replied, "No." If his prior assertion were true, his reply SHOULD have been, "I don't know as I couldn't hear anything from being deafened by firing gunshots."

For once, I completely agree with you :thumb:

 

[james83]

What he said about her not answering doesn't mean that he wasn't still at least somewhat deafened and/or having tinnitus, pumped up to the max with adreline, freaked, and not assessing anything very clearly.

Not checking the bedroom door to see if Reeva had made her way downstairs, does that strike you as odd?.

 

[DebinGA]

Oh, and perhaps Reeva got to know a little too much about his financial stuff that night and didn't like it/didn't like being involved with someone who wasn't playing it straight in that respect .. that could've been a relationship deal breaker (I know it's something that has been for me in the past because I didn't want to be part of someone else's fraudulent activities) and then he got scared because he felt she knew too much about him and could wreck him if it got out?

I definitely think OP killed Reeva because of the danger she represented to life as he knew it.

 

[Viper]

Logical fallacy. That screaming stopped after shots (taking that at face value) doesn't mean the shots stopped because he didn't hear screams anymore. That is an inference on your part, based on your assumption that he could in fact hear.

If you believe OP when he says he could not hear anything, and you obviously do, and it was just a coincidence that he stopped shooting Reeva when she stopped screaming, as you just said, then why did OP cry to the court and say that Reeva never screamed? He did say that you know, before he said that he could not hear her because he had lost his hearing. :drumroll:

 

[jay-jay]

I think we might be talking about different screams - you, those during the shooting; me, those the Stipps etc testified to hearing before the shots.

On a side note, someone just made an interesting comment (on another forum) re the debate about how OP was holding his gun at the time of the shooting. As they so sensibly said, if he really did think it was an intruder he would be holding it in a much more determined manner than the wimpy way he describes it now. Good point I thought.

Yes, it's almost as if he wants to try and avoid saying he used both hands in the way he did at the shooting range, but I bet that is exactly how he shot at her .. and that's why he's changed it to the one handed, not fully extended arm position.

 

[BritsKate]

What is you guys' opinion of the photographer, Bennie Van Staden? I've been reading on the hole in the bathroom door and came across a youtube video where Roux is questioning him about not photographing the door. This Van Staden seems like he's being dishonest or shady? He's looking down, I don't even know if he's look at the judge. He needs to be replaced as photographer because he doesn't come across well in trial, at least the 3 minutes I just watched.

More about Frank Chiziweni
Maybe Frank is 80 and wears hearing aids, but really... why wouldn't they say that if it were the case?

Also, a read a report where the police officer said he spoke good English.

Happy
Mother's
Day to all mums !!

I think you might mean the hole on the bedroom door? IIRC Van Staden did photograph it but not immediately. Ultimately, what he photographs is at his discretion, as he explained in testimony. His first aim was to photograph evidence that had a potential of being moved or possibly destroyed.

 

[soozieqtips]

Logical fallacy. That screaming stopped after shots (taking that at face value) doesn't mean the shots stopped because he didn't hear screams anymore. That is an inference on your part, based on your assumption that he could in fact hear.

Well, what an amazing coincidence then that after Reeva stopped screaming, OP stopped shooting. By the way, he didn't ever mention he was 'deafened' by shots in his affidavit or at his plea hearing. It only appears to have come to light more than a year later when he realised how many people had heard Reeva screaming, and needed to have a reason why he didn't hear it. So yes, I made the assumption he could hear, because when someone tells one lie after another after another (in between blaming past wrongdoings on other people and insulting reliable witnesses, like Dr Stipp for example) it kind of destroys their credibility.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I wonder if it was the tax thing then .. because it's v.odd that she just so happens to mention monetary blessings there. It's not something you would normally say just out of the blue.

Yes it was an unusual comment.
Obviously I am only speculating but I think it is either a tax or sponsership problem ,although she mentioned he may want to spend time with his family so then that throws me a little ,although on the other hand efficient tax planning is likely to be something his family would know about if they are as wealthy as press reports say so I guess he may have wanted to speak to them about it.
The other obvious thing is that it could have been is the law suit and counter claim pending Taylor Memmory ?

 

[Emz73]

What he said about her not answering doesn't mean that he wasn't still at least somewhat deafened and/or having tinnitus, pumped up to the max with adreline, freaked, and not assessing anything very clearly.

Then instead of saying "I called to Reeva but she didn't answer" He should of said "I was somewhat deafened and/or having tinnitus, pumped up to the max with adreline, freaked, and not assessing anything very clearly" "so I don't know if she answered.

Not even Oscar is using deafness as his excuse.

 

[supernovaNic]

I think you might mean the hole on the bedroom door? IIRC Van Staden did photograph it but not immediately. Ultimately, what he photographs is at his discretion, as he explained in testimony. His first aim was to photograph evidence that had a potential of being moved or possibly destroyed.

Yes bedroom door!! :scared: Thank you !!

I just wish the guy testified with a spine and with strength !! Not this kind of wormy vibe.

 

[Ncl1968]

If OP was safety conscious enough to realize a shot into the shower stall might ricochet and hit him near the passage, he was clear thinking enough to have grabbed his shooting range ear protectors when he picked up his gun.

Then he would not have heard reeva screaming..