Trial Discussion Thread #4 - 14.03.10, Day 6

[jillnors2]

Originally Posted by shane13 View Post
Now since someone has just asked me about my recent hypotheses.
But understand before I list them that I must be accredited with my writings and hypotheses, in your future posts./B]

1. It was something else other than rage, or in addition to it, that was OP’s state of mind.
2. RE the whole gunshot, “batshots”, screaming last 20 minutes or so of Reeva’s life. The number of shooting volleys may be different than both sides in the trial are alleging. Likewise for the timing of gunshots and batshots, screaming etc.
3. The final killing of Reeva may have been done in a more horrifying way than anyone else has depicted here. And HINT this hypothesis relates to all my other points here (except last one).
4. There are medical issues in play here but I am not asking for anyone to know this really, just the brain states.
5. Oscar’s crying and covering his ears etc, I assert is not likely fake or an act, but relates deeply again to his underlying problems, which relates to my other points herein.
6. There may be another recent one if I can later recall it. Again make sure to accedit me for all this, or else I may be gone and you may not get to know vastly more that I have written. ©Shane13

I wonder if OP was abused as a child or witnessed abuse

 

[Estelle]

Oops. I read it here too and assumed it was fact. Glad I'm not a witness at the trial! Even so, watching *advertiser censored* on Valentine's Day while your g/friend is there is a very insular thing to do and I seriously doubt Reeva was watching it with him on a tiny phone screen. Of course, there's always the possibility that he was watching it while Reeva was engaged elsewhere, doing yoga or whatever. Do we have the times of his pornathon?

Here is one of the many MSM articles on the subject of OP's watching of X-rated *advertiser censored* posted on 24 February, 2014:

The paralympian was looking at X-rated material on his phone shortly before model Reeva Steenkamp was shot, according to reports in South Africa.

Court documents allege Pistorius was browsing *advertiser censored* websites while Reeva was at his home in Pretoria.

Experts say prosecutors could use the evidence to challenge whether the pair were a "loving couple".

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...dvertiser censored*-before-he-shot-lover-dead

 

[soozieqtips]

From the affidavit: "By about 22h00 on 13 February 2013 we were in our bedroom. She was doing her yoga exercises and I was in bed watching television. My prosthetic legs were off. We were deeply in love and I could not be happier. I know she felt the same way. She had given me a present for Valentine's Day but asked me only to open it the next day.

After Reeva finished her yoga exercises she got into bed and we both fell asleep."

So they were both in bed at 10pm but not yet asleep. I find it a little odd that he said "We were deeply in love and I could not be happier". What did that have to do with the events that night? He's not recounting what happened at that point, he's putting forth feelings of love and commitment which seem out of place when he's just supposed to be saying what happened that night. I find it almost a defence thing.

 

[zwiebel]

For anyone who has trouble, like me, picturing without a picture, I have made this initial diagram. Please excuse the roughness - it's done with a finger paint app.

Here are the bullet wounds, bruises and abrasions I think we have so far ( inc. three bullet entrance wounds but only two exits at the back.)

I left out any possible left arm injury as I am really not sure if there was one.

I've included a close up of that odd little wound between the second and third finger that the pathologist found.

 

[minor4th]

I think of a vest as a tank top or under shirt

The fact that she was not wearing a bra or underwear does somewhat suggest that she had been sleeping in these clothes and not preparing to flee or up and about

 

[zwiebel]

BBM: Shane, do you think the judge knew all that was in that pathology report before banning the press?

The fact that she was not wearing a bra or underwear does somewhat suggest that she had been sleeping in these clothes and not preparing to flee or up and about

I believe that was the same tank Reeva was wearing when she arrived at the home earlier - meaning she slept in the top she had been wearing all day, I guess...

 

[minor4th]

It would seem that those were the same clothes she'd done her yoga in (if she really did yoga that night). If she did, I'd imagine she'd have changed before bed, just to freshen up a little after the exercise. I personally wouldn't go to bed after wearing the same clothes I'd had on most of the day, especially after doing yoga. So it's possible that no one went to bed that night. OP looking at *advertiser censored* and car sites, and Reeva doing, well, we don't know, apart from the alleged yoga.

I don't mean to be crass but it's also possible that the couple was watching *advertiser censored* together, as many couples do.

 

[soozieqtips]

Here is one of the many MSM articles on the subject of OP's watching of X-rated *advertiser censored* posted on 24 February, 2014:



http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...dvertiser censored*-before-he-shot-lover-dead

Thanks Estelle. I guess there might be a difference between x-rated *advertiser censored* and violent *advertiser censored*? Vincent Tabak was watching *advertiser censored* about strangulation not long before he strangled his neighbour. I think it was referred to as violent *advertiser censored*, so there may be a distinction between the two.

 

[soozieqtips]

I don't mean to be crass but it's also possible that the couple was watching *advertiser censored* together, as many couples do.

It's not crass at all. I just don't see them huddled up together watching *advertiser censored* on a 4-inch screen.

I think it's much more unlikely than it is likely. Big screen, okay, but not a phone screen.

 

[minor4th]

I believe that was the same tank Reeva was wearing when she arrived at the home earlier - meaning she slept in the top she had been wearing all day, I guess...

Well one would need to know if she was wearing undergarments when she arrived or if she normally wore them or normally went without

 

[shane13]

On Monday, however, Roux said call records showed Pistorius called security first,
but could not speak because he was "indeed crying".

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/mar/10/oscar-pistorius-vomits-court-reeva-steenkamp-injuries

Does anyone know if Roux has produced these call records? They're crucial because if OP did in fact call security first, then it shows he tried to get help before being forced to do it. Roux has claimed he can prove many things, but I've yet to see him do it. Surely he wouldn't be so stupid as to pretend he has call records that show Baba is mistaken about the call sequence? Would he?

Well recall he threatened basically Sam T; telling her to change her testimony, otherwise he will produce damgaing emails proving she is a liar.
She took his bluff and said "I don't know about these alleged emails, but it happened as I said." [I am paraphrasing.]

Roux did not produce those alleged emails disproving ST. Does that mean he lied about having them?
If so pretty bad. But we can't be sure.

And remember this man and the DT were allowed to steal the 5th phone from the crime scene and admit this and have it for several days. And he and whoever took it are not charged, not even investigated. And Botha was admonished by the BH judge for not trying to get #s from a phone that was stolen from the crime scene that he only learned exisited less than a day before.

As I wrote a few days ago, Roux can get away with anything.
Even giving out the witness' home/business phone publicly--he got the tiniest PUBLIC slap on the wrist. Another atty might have been strongly censored or disbarred at least for a while.

This one runs deep...

 

[Estelle]

The fact that she was not wearing a bra or underwear does somewhat suggest that she had been sleeping in these clothes and not preparing to flee or up and about

In hot countries, some women do not wear bras or pants. I live in Australia, and when it's hot, I do not always wear bras and pants underneath outer garments.

 

[soozieqtips]

Well recall he threatened basically Sam T; telling her to change her testimony, otherwise he will produce damgaing emails proving she is a liar.
She took his bluff and said "I don't know about these alleged emails, but it happened as I said." [I am paraphrasing.]

Roux did not prodice those alleged emails disproving ST. Does that mean he lied aout having them?
If so pretty bad. But we can't be sure.

And remember this man and the DT were allowed to steal the 5th phone from the crime scene and admit this and have it for several days. And he and whoever took it are not charged, not even investigated. And Botha was admonished by the BH judge for not trying to get #s from a phione that was stolen from the crime scene that he only learned exisitd less than a day before.

As I wrote a few days ago, Roux can get away with anything.
Even giving out the witness' home/business phone publicly--he got the tiniest PUBLIC slap on the wrist. Another atty might have been strongly censored or disbarred at least for a while.

This one runs deep...

Yes, it's strange how he regularly states things like: "I have proof it didn't happen like you say it did" - "I have emails that prove you weren't with Oscar at the time" - "I have proof that Oscar called security first" (to discredit Baba) - and then comes up with nada. On the other hand, if anyone was lying on the stand, I'm sure the threats of 'proof' might cause them to reconsider their testimony. So far, Roux's threats have come up empty.

I'd also have thought that by law, the DT would have been legally obliged to hand in the 5th phone immediately, not hold onto it for days. What were they doing with it??

 

[kittychi]

The fact that she was not wearing a bra or underwear does somewhat suggest that she had been sleeping in these clothes and not preparing to flee or up and about

Was there specific mention of this anywhere? I have not seen this. I assumed she was wearing a bra and underwear unless her Nike shorts had a sewn-in panty as some do.

In any case, sure, sleeping in a tank top without a bra would be natural. But sleeping with street shorts on would not be. Unless she was wearing some of Oscar's shorts which would be roomy enough for comfort.

 

[Feynman]

excerpted quote:

“The product seized at Pistorius’ residence is one of these homeopathic remedies. The product contains extracts of both glands and plants. Here’s a description of the injectable version from a UK retailer:
Composition: 2.2 ml containing: Testis suis D4, Embryo suis D8, Glandula suprarenalis suis D13, Kalium picrinicum D6, Ginseng D4, Damiana D8, Caladium seguinum D6, Cor suis D8, Cortiso-num aceticum D13, Vitex agnus-castus D6, Selenium D10, Cantharis D8, Conium maculatum D28, Lycopodium clavatum D28, Phosphorus D8, Diencephalon suis D10, Magnesium phos¬phoricum D10, Ferrum phosphoricum D10, Manganum pho-sphoricum D8, Zincum metallicum D10, Acidum ascorbicum D6 22 ul each.

The D's indicate a homeopathic "remedy". D8 for example means one part in 10 to the 8th power, or one part in 100,000,000. (Wild stuff, that homeopathy.)

 

[kittychi]

Yes, it's strange how he regularly states things like: "I have proof it didn't happen like you say it did" - "I have emails that prove you weren't with Oscar at the time" - "I have proof that Oscar called security first" (to discredit Baba) - and then comes up with nada. On the other hand, if anyone was lying on the stand, I'm sure the threats of 'proof' might cause them to reconsider their testimony. So far, Roux's threats have come up empty.

I'd also have thought that by law, the DT would have been legally obliged to hand in the 5th phone immediately, not hold onto it for days. What were they doing with it??

They had plenty of time to sanitize it, and I bet they did. (Not that they thought Oscar was guilty, of course, , but did not want LE going through anything at all.) They likely thought it was a great coop to get it and enjoyed rubbing Botha's nose in it at the BH, as though Botha would have known to ask for a 5th phone. I think part of Roux's strategy was to make LE look like bumbling fools. Which he pretty much succeeded in.

 

[Estelle]

Thanks Estelle. I guess there might be a difference between x-rated *advertiser censored* and violent *advertiser censored*? Vincent Tabak was watching *advertiser censored* about strangulation not long before he strangled his neighbour. I think it was referred to as violent *advertiser censored*, so there may be a distinction between the two.

IMO calling it X-rated *advertiser censored* is the same as violent *advertiser censored*. That is why it is X-rated. I was the one who cited that case when I posted about the *advertiser censored*. I followed that case from Day One and we were all shocked when his violent *advertiser censored* watching was leaked at the end of the case. Tabak carried out his fantasy of strangulation after watching X-rated *advertiser censored*. It is sex addiction IMO and it can get out of control and the fantasies can become reality and they eventually have a compulsion to carry out their fantasies. Maybe just maybe OP had such a fantasy with guns and women.

 

[zwiebel]

Well one would need to know if she was wearing undergarments when she arrived or if she normally wore them or normally went without

Googling her name with 'images' brings up several pics where Reeva appears to be wearing day wear without a bra - or any straps showing, anyhow. There are all sorts of strapless contraptions though, so I guess it's a question those closest to her might be able to answer.....or better still, a wardrobe person at the show Reeva was in.

 

[Feynman]

Where was it said he was watching violent *advertiser censored*??? I don't think I've seen that mentioned anywhere except here?

I doubt anyone is the MSM has said this; people have speculated about it here (I assume because there's not enough speculation here already).

 

[Cherwell]

I have been wanting to say that I thought this judge was weak. I am not familiar with SA courts so I didn't say it until now. I certainly do not want her to be weak when it comes to the verdict or sentencing.

I further think the preclusion of the ME's testimony was wrong. So many of us here have listened to and watched a great number of criminal trials with delicate or gruesome testimony, and we did it for the victims. This was a ruling (IMO) that was advantageous to OP and counsel. The ruling kept the cameras off of OP's face as the worst was being told. Surely the judge had to know to whose advantage this was.

*Even though all we missed actually seeing was OP vomiting. BUT we should have gotten to hear the testimony, IMO.

In what way do you think it was "advantageous to OP"? Anyone who needed to hear the evidence was there in court.

In any case, all it seems to boil down to is that the pathologist's testimony wasn't to be televised live. There doesn't seem to have been any restriction on reporting it afterwards.