Trial Discussion Thread #4 - 14.03.10, Day 6

[aa9511]

BBM

In response to the bold... now this would definitely mean she had her arms folded around her head. See my post above and it makes perfect sense.

Enters the right arm above elbow, goes thru to the head at the base of the skull, exits the left side out thru the left arm.

There's no reason to be shielding your head in the bathroom like that on a simple pee trip (unless you're raging hungover.. which she was not)

But wouldn't there be evidence of all of that, the bullet entering and leaving, etc.? Wouldn't they be able to tell the path of the bullet(s)?

 

[aa9511]

IMO, since he was watching it on his phone that tells me he was being sneaky/secretive about it. That's not out of the realm of possibility to me. If he ever found himself alone i.e. In the bath or using the restroom, he may have used that as an opportunity. ST said he always had his phone with him. Either way, why would it cause your hinky meter to go up?

I guess just the secretive aspect of it. Like you said, if Reeva was there, I think he would have been doing it secretly. That just seems strange to me. That Reeva would be in the other room, and he would be watching *advertiser censored* in the bathroom. I guess it raises the hinky-meter for me b/c it suggests they were separated and doing separate things.

 

[aa9511]

For timing purposes this is quite true. But I won't judge a man for having a healthy *advertiser censored* fascination. I just can't do it. The whole Jodi Arias trial was the DT trying to paint TA as a perverted pervert for having *advertiser censored* that he did not even have. I think it's just not enough for me. Perfectly wonderful men watch *advertiser censored*.

Agreed.

 

[MeeBee]

I guess just the secretive aspect of it. Like you said, if Reeva was there, I think he would have been doing it secretly. That just seems strange to me. That Reeva would be in the other room, and he would be watching *advertiser censored* in the bathroom. I guess it raises the hinky-meter for me b/c it suggests they were separated and doing separate things.

That's what it suggests to me too, aa. Not hinky, I suppose. Just odd given it was Valentine's Day and they seemed to be doing separate things. Maybe they just had a comfortable relationship. Oscar's off watching *advertiser censored*, Reeva's off doing yoga and eating veggies. And then they just go to sleep?

 

[aa9511]

Are you Oscar?

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

OMG I forgot that that is entirely possible since he is not in prison!! OMG.

 

[Estelle]

IMO, because of the Valentine's Gift it was not her plan to end the relationship.

Just Speculation: I keep coming back to this...but if he was drinking, as he is known to do, and was overly intoxicated, perhaps that is what they were fighting about? I know if I was looking forward to a romantic evening and my partner got really drunk, I would be infuriated. Like he was drinking to escape the evening...that would have been very insulting.

ETA: Drinking could also help explain the happy trigger finger.

KC, I did not say she had PLANNED to end their relationship. I think that something could have occurred that night which made her think that she should end the relationship.

But I agree that if OP was drinking heavily, like you said, Reeva might have got infuriated with him and told him it's over.

He had already been to a party that afternoon at his real estate agent's office and I read somewhere that they thought he might join them again later. So he could have already had a few drinks in him.

Don't ask me for links as I have forgotten his real estate agent's name but I posted it ages ago on an earlier thread if anyone is interested in finding it.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Re: Reeva's stomach contents

According to Medical Examiner was 200 ml. This is actually not very much.

Here's the equivalent in U.S. measurement for liquids. (If it is liters it is liquid)

30 ml. = 1 oz. U.S. liquid
200 ml. = 6 1/2 oz. U.S. liquid (actually just a teeny bit over this)

8 U.S. liquid oz. = 1 cup liquid

So she had about 2/3 cup of contents in her stomach.

-------------------------

For Estelle: Phil Spector is a famous nut-case, extremely eccentric music producer in the U.S. from beginning in the 1960s up until around 1990. He's pretty old now - around 72-74 I think and he's in jail for murdering a woman named Lana Clarkson.

It was a famous televised case here in the U.S. around 5-6 years ago. He went to a club in Hollywood and invited her back to his big house. She went and ended up being found sitting in a chair in his entry hall, fully dressed with her purse over her shoulder, dead of a bullet wound through her mouth to her brain.

There was no one in the house but the two of them. He said she committed suicide. He had two trials for murder. First one was a hung jury. Second one was a conviction. His background included being a gun-nut who always carried a loaded weapon and was known for threatening people with his gun, mainly but not exclusively women. Plus he once discharged the weapon in enclosed area - a recording studio - with people all around him.

At his trial several former girlfriends testified that he had threatened them with his gun.

If you are interested in the case, just google it. Or look him up on Wikipedia.

 

[shane13]

Shane.....with all due respect, in the Psych field, shadenfreude & sadism are merely symptoms. There are a few diagnosis that may show the symptom of such and they are Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Antisocial Personality Disorder, and Psychopathy.
Like I said, OP is just a run of the mill drug addicted, alcoholic Narcissist. Yes, they do kill during episodes of "Narcissistic Rage". Moo but heck....
what do I know? :blushing:

Thanks, but I am not interested in the standard list of dignoses which changes with each passing wind. And most of which does not have a clue as to the underlying causes of these disorders. So I am looking at it from a much higher level (than the "standard.")

I referred to a astate of mind And it is my puzzle--meant to lead to what happened.

 

[Peliman]

I've been reading pages and pages and still not sure where the exit wound was located or the size of the entrance & exit wound.

I'm interested once more in photos of the bathroom and door OP shot through looking towards the toilet. If I remember the toilet pic I saw the blood on the left side of the toilet and the shot to her hip was on the right. (unless I'm turned around and might be)

OP's extended barfing does not sound reasonable, I hope some got scooped up for emetic testing.

 

[sorrell skye]

Saayman confirmed that it was likely that one of the bullets had passed through Steenkamp's arm and into her head.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/reeva-s-head-wound-fatal-pathologist-1.1659020#.Ux54lozn99C

If her arm had been lower (perhaps at her side or somewhere other than in front of her head) there is no way for that bullet to have penetrated her arm and entered & exited her skull.

This sounds to me as if Reeva had put her arm up in a defensive posture (in front of her head), indicating that she was aware that she was being shot at & that her life was in danger, which IMO, gives credence to the witnesses who heard a woman screaming during the gunshots.

 

[Jamtart]

I enjoy hearing/reading everyone's opinions regarding what may have occurred on the early morning of February 14, 2013, based on the available evidence and information.

Respectfully, I fail to understand the necessity of cryptic posts such as the one above. If someone has a theory, why not just post it?

I'm all for fact-based speculation, but it seems to me that this 'guessing game' has begun to dominate the thread.

Can we all just get on with the discussion of the trial proceedings?

I mean no offense at all to you, Shane. I enjoy your insightful posts - when they contain useful information that I can apply to the case.

I don't mean to be a spoil sport, but am just expressing my opinion regarding this ongoing game.

Agreed.

 

[shane13]

Don't apologize, silly, I was just being a wise *advertiser censored**

I love this kind of stuff.

i am glad you love this kind of stuff.
And by the way, a belated kudos to you. Your dual personality reply is correct and relates to #5.

keep them coming.
the full and horrific #3 should be next.

 

[kittychi]

KC, I did not say she had PLANNED to end their relationship. I think that something could have occurred that night which made her think that she should end the relationship.

But I agree that if OP was drinking heavily, like you said, Reeva might have got infuriated with him and told him it's over.

He had already been to a party that afternoon at his real estate agent's office and I read somewhere that they thought he might join them again later. So he could have already had a few drinks in him.

Don't ask me for links as I have forgotten his real estate agent's name but I posted it ages ago on an earlier thread if anyone is interested in finding it.

Okay, that makes sense; totally agree.

 

[Estelle]

AN ERROR IN MSM MADE TODAY

His testimony on that point is not consistent with the version provided by Pistorius, who has claimed the pair went to bed at about 10pm, only to be woken by a noise he believed was a burglar at about 3am.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/oscar-p...s-presented-20140310-hvh5j.html#ixzz2vcQw4iuU

BAIL HEARING AFFIDAVIT

During the early morning hours of 14 February 2013 I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. I heard a noise in the bathroom and realized someone was in the bathroom

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/19/us-safrica-pistorius-affidavit-idUSBRE91I0OL20130219

 

[Jamtart]

i am glad you love this kind of stuff.
And by the way, a belated kudos to you. Your dual personality reply is correct and relates to #5.

keep them coming.
the full and horrific #3 should be next.

Hi Shane,
I would be interested to hear, a) what your credentials are in psychiatry/psychology/other relevant discipline, and b) when you had the opportunity to carry out a psychiatric/psychological assessment of OP...because it would be somewhat unusual that one would presume to diagnose him in the absence of both a) and b)
TIA

 

[Feynman]

For Carol or anyone in SA....I simply don't understand this going to balcony to get "fans". This was no doubt a very expensive home ....don't people have air conditioning?? And also sleeping with the windows open is not something I do here in Minnesota in a suburb with very little crime. I know there is security but why sleep with windows open. I would like to know if I am crazy or what?

My comment on this last year:

Oscar Pistorius charged with murdering his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp #4 - Page 49 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[MeeBee]

It is not a game.

This was not only going to go intinsightful matters of the case, it was going to contain the entire final shooting scenario. Couldn't get more specific to the case. or of solviong it.

Also rules prevent people telling others what to post or not.

I do not complain if some of your emotional posts are not valuable to solving the case, please do not try to tell me what to post.

Indeed one Mod has responded to this, so clearly she knows it is a sleuthing thing.

And anyone can put anyone on ignore if they are unhappy with posts.

Very sad when we were getting so close. (And I was not the one to make light or a game of it (Oscar, Zodiac, etc. Didn't come from me) I have done this in the most serious of ways, as it relates to the most serious of crimes.

You can just say what you are wanting to say. Sleuthing involves investigation and putting the pieces of the puzzle together to get to the bottom of things that are not obvious or known. You know what you want to say so just say it already!

 

[sorrell skye]

AFAIK, cryptic posts that allude to 'I know something you don't know' are against TOS.

 

[lisasalinger]

i am glad you love this kind of stuff.
And by the way, a belated kudos to you. Your dual personality reply is correct and relates to #5.

keep them coming.
the full and horrific #3 should be next.

Ok well now I'm having visions of Jack from The Shining.

So talking out loud, and trying to work thru what you want us to figure out... he has a dual personality, and the one that killed Reeva "enjoyed" doing it. That implies he tortured her. I'll get to your question # 3 in a minute, but if that is the case. How does that relate to the vomiting in court? Do dual personalities have any recollection of what their other half did? He hasn't claimed amnesia in any of this.

So if this is what you are proposing... Maybe he both shot at the door and broke the door while she was alive, so he could see her while she was in there. The panel had not fallen out yet, it was partially broken. Peering in at her. He shot her and relished in her torture, creating the delay heard in the noises and the blood-curdling screams. Then culminating in the final head shot. Everything after was a cover up. Is it something like that? That would be pretty horrific and I feel like I'm writing a Lifetime movie.

I think you may need to show your cards soon on this because your theories are obviously very complex. Probably best if you just explain them to us otherwise we will be coming up with all sorts of wild stuff all night.

 

[Feynman]

excerpted quote:

Yes - and Dr. Stipp testified that he observed OP promising God that if Reeva lived, OP would dedicate his life and Reeva's life to God.

He claimed ownership of Reeva when he made that declaration. This, to me, demonstrates his mindset. IMO, he did not perceive Reeva as an autonomous person, but as an object of which he possessed ultimate control.

Myself, I wouldn't make too much of what he said at that moment. However guilty he may be, this was uttered by a man in extreme distress.