Trial Discussion Thread #40

[jilly]

Pfft. I have just made a mental note to never argue with you! LOL!!!
Thank you for that, something I was not aware of.

:floorlaugh: You and me both! lol

 

[Karmady]

For the sake of clarity, "Do no harm" is not the first rule.

Or the second.

Or third.

A Modern Version of the Hippocratic Oath




http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=20909




http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/greekmedicine/f/HippocraticOath.htm

I think the point in referring to "do no harm" is that it's the most overarching and general of the tenets. Therefore, when in doubt and absent a specific rule...do no harm.

jmo

 

[Suthrnqt]

Pfft. I have just made a mental note to never argue with you! LOL!!!

Thank you for that, something I was not aware of.

Hey Trooper. :seeya:
Speaking of your dog, what was the outcome of the possum encounter? ?

 

[jilly]

The thing is, if this panel, and God help Oscar if it does, finds that he has an extremely debilitating mental defect, and/or illness, he will be kept as a State patient in the locked ward for as long as it is deemed necessary until he is either sane enough to conduct his instructions to his attorney, or so unwell he cannot be released in the foreseeable future outside the confines of the treating hospital. And that could mean 10 years, 15, even 20 years of mandatory treatment, whatever form it takes, .. regular evaluations, mandatory therapy, mandatory observation.. oh dear.

it makes prison look like a teddy bears picnic in comparison.

uhhhh, I think the Judge better take his passport on Tuesday!

 

[Karmady]

Women that have insecurities of their own would be my guess. Any other woman would be able to see right through him.

how do you explain Reeva's attraction. By all accounts I've read, she wasn't an insecure woman. How did she not see right through him?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Great first post, however the "red light" was actually blue. :welcome: and hope to read more of your posts in the future!

Thank you for the warm welcome,

That's right :blushing:, Gerrie Nel pointed out that the 'red' light didn't bother OP, it was the 'blue' light that did.
Maybe, the red light was a comfort after all. :lol: jmo

 

[Trooper]

Pfft. I have just made a mental note to never argue with you! LOL!!!

Thank you for that, something I was not aware of.

I would be morose if you didn't argue with me, Viper..


as an aside.. for a terrific example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, we have Oscar providing a classic moment..

On the stand, he suddenly, and without reference to any part of his testimony, it just bubbled from his mouth, he stated that Dr Stipp 'appeared overwhelmed, and didn't know what he was doing..'

lets remember the scene here. Dr Stipp has heard terrified screaming, both of a man and a woman, with intermingled gunfire at around 3am, he is instantly aware of some trouble, somewhere. He dresses and goes over to where the mayhem appears to be emanating from. Right into the belly of the beast, you could say. All he knows is, some children might be caught up in a domestic violence event.

He enters the door. he sees a man on stumps, kneeling over the bloodied and mangled body of a young woman, in the hallway. This man is weeping, wailing, has his fingers stuck down this dying or dead womans throat.. he ascertains ,after a brief yet skilled examination that the young woman is dead. There is nothing he can do for her.

Oscar.. the bloke who shot her, he isn't overwhelmed?? he doesn't know what he is doing?


classic dunning -kruger moment.

 

[Karmady]

This is a criminal psychiatric evaluation that is to take place in an environment dedicated to such. It is remotely similar to OPs two visits with Dr. V, but these mental health professionals have a different mandate than the soft conversations that occurred in Dr. V's office. She refused to even look at the court transcript that Roux gave her. Geez!

I did not realize that some folks saw Mr. Nel's questions as being so harmful to OPs psyche, I really didn't. But what it boils down to is other people, mental health professionals, most of them having full time careers assessing criminals, are going to politely ask OP some questions. Lots and lots of questions, all related to OP and the fact that he killed. And they will do this for 30 days from 5:00AM-9:00PM everyday. There will be lots of forms and standard tests for him to complete, but most of his time will be spent interacting with these folks. But on the bright side, maybe he will charm them in to feeling sorry for him and they won't ask him any hard probing questions, and certainly not any follow up questions.

If the point is to make the assessment sound as unpleasant as possible, you win. I think it's still preferable to jail, but that's just me. Not sure why 5 am is the start time. I'd rather go to jail than be up at 4 for 30 days straight. I guess we'll see on Tuesday.

 

[Magdalyn]

My amateur diagnosis of that particular syndrome rests heavily on Hybristophilia and the Dunning -Kruger effect.. and also, my dog agrees with those conclusions, which makes it almost unanimous in my household...

Hybristophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

and...

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If we're going to be hearing more from your dog, you might want to consider getting him verified. :beagle:

 

[Trooper]

Hey Trooper. :seeya:
Speaking of your dog, what was the outcome of the possum encounter? ?

possum 1 , dog 0.. happens every time.

 

[Val1]

Or maybe Nel could rack him. But the docs definitely can't -- at least nowadays

Hmm I wasn't thinking necessarily of electric shock therapy though I can't say I'd be opposed to it, it has come a long way, more the jog his memory kind like what Nel did in the courtroom. Certainly they will have pics other than inkblots at their disposal?

 

[nastasya]

What is up with women falling all over themselves for this guy? He may be handsome, and opposite to that he is disfigured. Some women despise a man that has killed, while at the same time they love that he seems boyish and needs attention to soothe him? :weird:

I think it's more because some women have some unresolved conflicts and jealousy issues around attractive models like Reeva, and are unconsciously happy she was at the other end of the shots.

That's what I see when I look at the women who fall all over themselves defending OP, referring to him affectionately as "Oscar" this and "Oscar" that, and poor Oscar, blah blah f-ing blah like he's some long lost friend. Funny thing, if he met these women in person he would look right through them like they didn't exist.

Where's the green bucket when you need it.... lol

 

[TorisMom003]

possum 1 , dog 0.. happens every time.

Poor thing isn't quick enough? We had a lovely, absolutely best dog ever that passed away in Feb. She was 4 years old and loved her squeaky toys. Well one day I happened to look out the window into the back yard and there laid a dead possum. Fortunately it appeared that she only grabbed it, gave it a good shake and when it stopped making noise, left it alone. I left the disposal of the possum to hubby.

 

[Karmady]

Hmm I wasn't thinking necessarily of electric shock therapy though I can't say I'd be opposed to it, it has come a long way, more the jog his memory kind like what Nel did in the courtroom. Certainly they will have pics other than inkblots at their disposal?

You think they'll show him crime scene photos? I honestly don't know whether they can/would/should do that.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Hmm I wasn't thinking necessarily of electric shock therapy though I can't say I'd be opposed to it, it has come a long way, more the jog his memory kind like what Nel did in the courtroom. Certainly they will have pics other than inkblots at their disposal?

For clarity: Today it is called ECT - Electroconvulsive Therapy

Yes it is different. It does not cause the old fashioned "grand mal" seizures of the past. In most patients there may be a small twitching of a leg. They do still use the mouthguard during the procedure, by the way. Not so the patient doesn't "swallow their tongue". It is so they don't bite their tongue.

It is mainly used to treat resistant clinical depression. As far as memory, ECT is more likely to impair memory than to "jog it".

As for "racking", I don't think that was ever used as a psychiatric treatment. But immersing the patient into ice baths was. Oh yes.

 

[Viper]

You think they'll show him crime scene photos? I honestly don't know whether they can/would/should do that.

They most certainly can, should, and would do that.

 

[DILLIGAF]

His own witness ,Prof Vorster has already stated that the disorder she believes he has is treatable and should have been diagnosed and treated for a very very long time. That is not the issue.

It is not the responsibility OR the task of the panel to treat, or manage whatever disorder they may find. Or not. . he would be referred onwards. The panel itself is not formed to the view to treat Oscar's disorder, should he have one. This is the mistake that is being made. Their job is an impartial evaluation. And evaluation ONLY. nothing more. They have no mandate to treat Oscar.. has Oscar expressed a wish to you that he wants to be treated?? Absolutely not. Their impartiality would be compromised should they suddenly become his counsellors. This irrational thinking is probably due to a misreading of the statute, or the concept of court appointed evaluation. Keep in mind, this is not at the request of Oscar. far from.

Exactly. It's an evaluation only. For the purposes of the court, I highly doubt they would make any recommendation about treatment.

 

[Karmady]

For clarity: Today it is called ECT - Electroconvulsive Therapy

Yes it is different. It does not cause the old fashioned "grand mal" seizures of the past. In most patients there may be a small twitching of a leg. They do still use the mouthguard during the procedure, by the way. Not so the patient doesn't "swallow their tongue". It is so they don't bite their tongue.

It is mainly used to treat resistant clinical depression. As far as memory, ECT is more likely to impair memory than to "jog it".

As for "racking", I don't think that was ever used as a psychiatric treatment. But immersing the patient into ice baths was. Oh yes.

I know that psychiatrists never racked (or at least I don't think they did). I was comparing abhorent criminal justice practices to the cited abhorrent mental illness practices. Quid pro quo

 

[nastasya]

You think they'll show him crime scene photos? I honestly don't know whether they can/would/should do that.

Well since OP was 100% responsible for creating those crime scenes, I would think it would be irresponsible and unprofessional for the evaluators NOT to show OP what he did and observe his reactions.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

I know that psychiatrists never racked (or at least I don't think they did). I was comparing abhorent criminal justice practices to the cited abhorrent mental illness practices. Quid pro quo

Ahhhhh.... gotcha! Personally, I've always thought drawing and quartering beat racking, hands down.