Trial Discussion Thread #40

[vansleuths]

1) The nearest neighbour's very specifically heard a man "crying" not screaming.
2) the nearest neighbours very obviously heard the crying after both set's of sounds had occurred, a time when it was well known oscar was crying, as confirmed by Dr Stipp when he arrived at the scene and Estelle Van Der Merwe hearing the crying from her house.
Also please ponder this, Roux asked Mrs Nhlengethwa and Mrs Motshuane to give a demonstration of the cry that they heard, for some reason he didn't ask Mr Nhlengetwa to give do a demonstration of the cry he heard, now why do you think that was?.

BIB. Why do you think Nel never asked Mr. Nhlengetwa to give a demo of the scream he heard during cross examination?

 

[Feynman]

Let's try this again.
1. He goes into the bathroom with a cocked gun. ...(fact)
2...with the intention of shooting (speculation)
3.He shoots into the door (fact)
4....and then there is a pause ( according to ear witness, so while not pure speculation still can't be presented as fact)
5.Realizing he's done for (100% speculation)
6.he makes another intended decision to finish her off. (speculation as to both state of mind and intent.)

The pause in 4 is backed up by Mangena.

 

[Greater Than]

Let's try this again.
1. He goes into the bathroom with a cocked gun. ...(fact)
2...with the intention of shooting (speculation)
3.He shoots into the door (fact)
4....and then there is a pause ( according to ear witness, so while not pure speculation still can't be presented as fact)
5.Realizing he's done for (100% speculation)
6.he makes another intended decision to finish her off. (speculation as to both state of mind and intent.)

Concerning number 4, it was testified by the ballistics expert (I believe it was) that there had to be a pause after the first gun shot because Reeva had to have time to fall into the position for the 3rd and 4th shots to hit where they did. This backs up the ear witness claim of the pause between the 1st shot and the other 3.

Yes, exactly. It was Capt. Mangena. Whose testimony corroborated Burger's evidence of hearing bang (pause) bang, bang, bang.

Which means Reeva had time to scream, which means OP heard her, which means he absolutely 100% fired shots two, three, and four knowing who was behind the door, which means he was shooting to kill because shot one incapacitated the "intruder" so there was no more "threat," but he kept firing anyway, which means he committed murder.

 

[DebinGA]

One aha! trial moment was Nel asking Wolmarans if he'd ever asked OP to demonstrate how he'd fired the shots - speed, hand position, body position, where he was standing/moving, and finally has he ever spoken to OP at all - answer "no, m'lady".

 

[Interested Bystander]

Yes, exactly. It was Capt. Mangena. Whose testimony corroborated Burger's evidence of hearing bang (pause) bang, bang, bang.

Which means Reeva had time to scream, which means OP heard her, which means he absolutely 100% fired shots two, three, and four knowing who was behind the door, which means he was shooting to kill because shot one incapacitated the "intruder" so there was no more "threat," but he kept firing anyway, which means he committed murder.

If you listen to Charle Johnson's evidence Reeva was screaming for some long time before the gunshots, when most of us think the bat hits were taking place. He said he also heard screaming between shots.

 

[Greater Than]

If you listen to Charle Johnson's evidence Reeva was screaming for some long time before the gunshots, when most of us think the bat hits were taking place. He said he also heard screaming between shots.

Yes, absolutely. I just just referring to the specific events when OP was shooting at the door. The pause after shot one is significant because she screamed after that shot to the hip, but he kept firing.

 

[Emz73]

http://batgunkick.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/the-event-is-this-what-happened-that.html?m=1

This is well thought out!!! Thanks.

 

[patCee]

Before 3:17am Bat on stumps, then Gun on stumps at 3:17am... then after 3:17am Kick on prosthetics, and all state witness testimony and forensics fit. This is my first post on here (I live in South Africa, and have been following the Oscar Pistorius trial)... Since April we have thought that the crack through bullet hole D is CRUCIAL, and thrilled to see people on here are also considering it. We have a "bat gun kick" theory outlined here fully with timeline and testimony lined up: take a look and let me know if you think it has merit? http://batgunkick.blogspot.com/
You all seem to be as intrigued with this case and I am.

:Welcome1:

That's a pretty amazing piece of work you've done there. I've scanned through, but it's late here and I'm too tired to go through all the points carefully.

It's quiet here due to the court's adj till Tuesday. Hang on in there and I'm sure there'll be plenty of people who will look at all the points you've raised and make lots of comments.

:seeya:

 

[soozieqtips]

Before 3:17am Bat on stumps, then Gun on stumps at 3:17am... then after 3:17am Kick on prosthetics, and all state witness testimony and forensics fit. This is my first post on here (I live in South Africa, and have been following the Oscar Pistorius trial)... Since April we have thought that the crack through bullet hole D is CRUCIAL, and thrilled to see people on here are also considering it. We have a "bat gun kick" theory outlined here fully with timeline and testimony lined up: take a look and let me know if you think it has merit? http://batgunkick.blogspot.com/
You all seem to be as intrigued with this case and I am.

I read your blog. Very interesting indeed, and extremely plausible.

A billion times more plausible than his fantastical fairy tale. Thanks for that!

 

[Val1]

Just to correct point no. 3. OP never said Reeva was asleep in his bail statement.

Agreed, not in so many words, but it was certainly implied.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/126352744/Oscar-Pistorius-affidavit

 

[BatGunKick]

http://batgunkick.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/the-event-is-this-what-happened-that.html?m=1

This is well thought out!!! Thanks.

Thanks! It's a labor of love, I know that's odd, but finding like-minded people om here is great. x

 

[BatGunKick]

:Welcome1:

That's a pretty amazing piece of work you've done there. I've scanned through, but it's late here and I'm too tired to go through all the points carefully.

It's quiet here due to the court's adj till Tuesday. Hang on in there and I'm sure there'll be plenty of people who will look at all the points you've raised and make lots of comments.

:seeya:

Thanks for the great welcome late here too (after 1am). So nice to see like minded people all debating and mulling over this case. One thing is sure - OP's version makes no sense. Chat soon. x

 

[katydid23]

Thanks! It's a labor of love, I know that's odd, but finding like-minded people om here is great. x

You did such a great job explaining and clarifying the theory. GREAT WORK. I really hope that Nel brings much of this forward before this trial ends.

 

[Emz73]

Thanks! It's a labor of love, I know that's odd, but finding like-minded people om here is great. x

Haha bless you. Most here think the bat came first, as Reeva couldn't of been dying for 17 minutes. There's a handful who "support" OP or believe the DT version. What's the majoritys view in SA?

 

[Fuskier]

Thank you DebinGA. This article does 'unmask' Oscar Pistorius and is well worth a read, just as you said, as it gives 'context' IMO.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/the-unmaking-of-oscar-pistorius/article10585576/?page=1

SOUTH AFRICA
The unmaking of Oscar Pistorius by Geoffrey York, Johannesburg — The Globe and Mail
Updated Mar. 31st, 2013.

...In a sports-crazy nation, nobody questioned the idolizing of Oscar Pistorius.
Not after his scrapes with the law, not when he applied for more gun licences,
and not when he was allowed to enter an Olympic event for which he hadn’t qualified.[Unquote]

 

[Val1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherwell View Post
One would think they would be concerned, and might contact counsel about it. But is it possible that the judge has been provided with a tape or transcript of the call? As Emz reminded us, the absence of a jury may be the difference here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeSuspect View Post
Maybe DT objected to it being played in court?

On what grounds?

I dunno, perhaps on the grounds that an accused has the right to not incriminate themselves with their defence? ... Hopefully someone with better legal knowledge in SA can(or has, I'm playing catch up again) clarify.

 

[Val1]

Saving a life or their family reputation and fortune? Aimee giving June S a letter...how much can this family take? You can just see on her face when so much b.s. is being put forth on the stand...from time to time she will comment to her friend wen it is really beyond the beyond. She is a very poised and put together woman and I think just tolerates the movements by OP's family trying to frankly make themselves feel better about the murder that their brother/nephew committed. she just wants to get justice for her daughter and get out of eye sight of this family ever again...what a nightmare. She is up against a very powerful family and so lucky to have Gerri Nel in charge.

bbm - Since RS's parents have so far refused to come to a settlement about the financial loss incurred with RS's death until after the court case(not letting this case get brushed under the carpet like everything else has according to OP's own ghost writer for his book), I'm willing to bet that the Pistorius clan was simply looking at the bottom line by accosting Mrs.S in court where she had no alternative but to put up with the three of them. That's not to say that they may not also be sorry that she lost her only child, but the motivation for their actions was not to me indicative of that.

 

[yozzdi]

The bat gun kick theory is a good one, thanks for,posting.

Another post that would be useful to see would be the following. A post of full OP version in chronological order, in black. Interspersed, in red would be any evidence or testimony that contradicts it. For example, ate dinner at 7pm, and last meal at 7pm ([in red] stomach contents imply last meal at 1am)

 

[jilly]

Uncle Arnold (and family) really had no choice but to say to the media that he was happy that OP was going to be tested. Could he really say that he knew OP was mentally just fine and that he thought it would be a waste of time for OP to be tested? Uncle Arnold was between a rock and a hard place.

MOO

Why speak at all? What was that? 15 seconds (if that) and no questions.?He could have just said 'no comment' What I took out of it (and liked) was that he announced to SA (and the world) that OP is getting a fair trial. I think Oscar's supporters needed to hear that.

 

[BatGunKick]

You did such a great job explaining and clarifying the theory. GREAT WORK. I really hope that Nel brings much of this forward before this trial ends.

Me too! When my mom and I originally had the light bulb moment of the bat-gun-kick, it was the April Easter weekend here in SA. We had been away and missed the start of the trial, only picking up at Oscar's lame testimony. So we decided to go back and watch on youtube from day 1. In essence we were then watching from back to front, and so amazingly the error of order of bat and gunshots was so CLEAR. I actually went as far as contacting the National Prosecutors Authority and then mailing the diagram to Advocate Nel... who knows, the State may have had this in mind all along and will bring it out in closing? If they can. lease: