Trial Discussion Thread #47 - 14.07.8, Day 38

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I think it was a car site. After the data was submitted as evidence Roux make a bit of a palaver about how "into" cars Reeva was so that if Nel brought it up OP could claim it must be Reeva waking and looking at cars (!). The way OP talked about " that evening" I think they bickered on and off and then had a time out around then with OP looking at cars on line and Reeva having a snack but things escalated rather than diffused afterwards. IMO it is very very very very unlikely that Reeva had that residual food in her stomach at 3am following a 7pm meal. It really does go against all of the current anaesthetic guidelines.
 
Well that depends. Are you going to tell me that you found a unique faucet that spurts water across the staircase even when it does not have a pressurized water supply? :D

Noooo, but I do have a garden hose that when it still has water in it and the tap is turned off, will spurt and spray as I wind it up while putting it away, even after most of the water has drained out of it, does that count? :/
 
Bit confused... Why would an interrupted or hung up on call not show up in the records? Do you mean interrupted or hung up on before finished dialling? And IIRC wasn't it the evidence that there was no call/text from Reeva's phone at the time just before and after the incident. And I thought, and IMBW, that it wasn't for sure she had her telephone with her in the loo anyway. I must be missing something.

And another thought, iirc both MN's call to security that gave the engaged signal and Stipp's call to security that didn't answer both registered on the records so again why wouldn't an interrupted or hung up call register even more so?

To be clearer, supposing RS did have her cell at some point in that last hour and had dialed "anyone" but OP grabbed or knocked her phone away and stopped the call before it actually rang the number called, or had even rang once or twice but no one had yet answered, would that register on her account, or perhaps just on a call display on the receiving end?

I know I often get those "dead" calls but can sometimes catch the number on my call display before they hang up, I'm not up to date on the technology as per whether it would record on their end as a call, so am quite curious about the capabilities of service providers in that regard.
 
BIB - that is a hell of a coincidence!!!!

Especially since we were told that the Ipads had been synched, perhaps RS "saw" what the connection was while she was still awake working on her speech and that set off the argument?
 
Wasn't the argument between 1 and 2am? I doubt very much that Reeva was reciting her speech so loudly that EVDM thought she was hearing an argument. On top of which, OP was supposedly asleep at the time, so why would Reeva be talking that loud and risk waking him up?

BIB
Nope, it was between 1:57 and 3 as per her testimony:

EVDM(I): My lady I woke up around 1:56 in the morning. I heard sounds. It seemed like somebody was involved in a fight and this people they are talking in loud voices, my lady. It lasted for about an hour. I couldn't hear what this person was saying and I also couldn't understand in what language this person was talking."

I think the interpreter misinterpreted "this people" and "loud voices" because she only heard one voice as per the following exchange after Nel referred to the "voices" she had heard:

Judge: She didn't say voices.
EVDM(W): Eine voice.
Judge: One voice.
Nel: One voice.
Judge: Thank you. Thank you.
EVDM(I): My lady, I just heard a woman’s voice.
Nel: Yes. Yes (inaudible).

and later:

EVDM(I): This person was talking, stopping, talking again. It wasn't continuously. To me, from where I was sleeping, my lady, it seemed like two people were involved in an argument, but I couldn't hear the other person's voice.

and later still:

Roux: Or, let me put it to you again, take you back, all you heard was a, I'm reading it again, (reads Afrikaans), now translated, that was, you heard a woman's voice, you could not hear the words or the language spoken, and it was "far from your house". That is what you heard.
VDMI: Yes, that's what I said, but I must say that I know a woman's voice, and there's many movements between a woman's voice, especially when we become angry, or cross my lady.
Roux: But here it's far away, you can't hear words, you can't hear language.
VDMI: To tell the honest truth, my lady, I do not know from which direction those sounds were coming from because [our time at home is to... to fall asleep].

Etc.

IDK but to date can't think of many possibilities which explain credibly, for me at least, EVDM not hearing OP's voice as the other party to the female voice she heard in this supposed "argument" when several neighbours heard him quite easily later, so I am stuck on 4 options:

➊ She heard someone or something else (she had no idea where the voice came from)

➋ She heard two "female" voices one of them OP's ! ;-)

➌ She heard Reeva arguing on the phone (I don't think it possible since the call would I presume had to have logged on her incoming call list)

➍ She heard a soliloquy. e.g. Reeva, unable to sleep, nervous about the speech she was to give the next morning, went downstairs to practice. Now iirc the speech was about women in abusive relationships, all very emotive stuff and depending on the speaker could easily sound like a one sided argument which is not that surprising since that is basically what a speech is, a one sided argument. And if she were downstairs on the other side of OP's 580 sq m2 house he wouldn't hear her asleep or otherwise, (at least in the 200 sq m2 I am we can't hear anyone on the other side of the house downstairs even when we are awake). Further on a hot night talking doesn't need to be that "loud" to travel over open spaces in a direct line, and EVDM never said the voice she heard was loud and she thought that was a female too and it was only her husband said it was OP when at that time he had no way of knowing that it was.​

Or what explanation have others come up with for EVDM not hearing OP's voice? Unless there is a credible explanation how will Masipa find an argument between OP/RS with just one voice? And I can't see her speculating too much around what it could be either so my soliloquy is really just for my fantasy and Masipa may not even make a finding on it and leave EVDM's one sided argument as an unsolvable. JMHO
 
And Reeva was due to give her first public speech the next morning... I have at times pondered if that wasn't the one sided "argument" EVDM heard, i.e. if she couldn't sleep and went downstairs to practice her speech felt peckish and took a snack to boot. And I was surprised how early SAs seems to go to bed... 9 to 11. In Spain we don't eat until 10, and not even the elderly are in bed much before 11 or 12, or in the summer 1 to 2!

My theory is that :

- RS activated her hotspot after dinner to work at 20:04
- OP did a bunch of stuff, cousin on phone, iPad, TV, etc…
- OP went to bed around 10PM
- RS stayed downstairs working and said something like : "I'll join you when I'm done"
- OP fell asleep
- RS kept on working… around 1AM she got peckish
- RS ate a snack… and made some noise in kitchen
- OP woke up startled by the noise in his house
- OP saw RS was not in bed… got worried
- OP put on his prosthetics, grabbed his gun, grabbed his 0020 cellphone at 1:48AM
- OP investigated the noise but found only RS downstairs in the kitchen
- OP was upset because his night's sleep was cut in the middle…not good for his training
- OP started to give some crap to RS
- RS had only stayed because OP had insisted so much on it
- RS had enough and she gave OP a piece of her mind
- OP was taken aback by this novel situation : i.e. RS standing up to him
- OP switched tactics and began giving excuses… RS was not going to have any of that this time
- RS had held back on a lot of stuff until that night… but this was the last straw
- RS gave OP hell… one sided argument between 2AM and 3AM
- Things escalated at got out of hand
 
BIB
Nope, it was between 1:57 and 3 as per her testimony:

EVDM(I): My lady I woke up around 1:56 in the morning. I heard sounds. It seemed like somebody was involved in a fight and this people they are talking in loud voices, my lady. It lasted for about an hour. I couldn't hear what this person was saying and I also couldn't understand in what language this person was talking."

I think the interpreter misinterpreted "this people" and "loud voices" because she only heard one voice as per the following exchange after Nel referred to the "voices" she had heard:

Judge: She didn't say voices.
EVDM(W): Eine voice.
Judge: One voice.
Nel: One voice.
Judge: Thank you. Thank you.
EVDM(I): My lady, I just heard a woman’s voice.
Nel: Yes. Yes (inaudible).

and later:

EVDM(I): This person was talking, stopping, talking again. It wasn't continuously. To me, from where I was sleeping, my lady, it seemed like two people were involved in an argument, but I couldn't hear the other person's voice.

and later still:

Roux: Or, let me put it to you again, take you back, all you heard was a, I'm reading it again, (reads Afrikaans), now translated, that was, you heard a woman's voice, you could not hear the words or the language spoken, and it was "far from your house". That is what you heard.
VDMI: Yes, that's what I said, but I must say that I know a woman's voice, and there's many movements between a woman's voice, especially when we become angry, or cross my lady.
Roux: But here it's far away, you can't hear words, you can't hear language.
VDMI: To tell the honest truth, my lady, I do not know from which direction those sounds were coming from because [our time at home is to... to fall asleep].

Etc.

IDK but to date can't think of many possibilities which explain credibly, for me at least, EVDM not hearing OP's voice as the other party to the female voice she heard in this supposed "argument" when several neighbours heard him quite easily later, so I am stuck on 4 options:

➊ She heard someone or something else (she had no idea where the voice came from)

➋ She heard two "female" voices one of them OP's ! ;-)

➌ She heard Reeva arguing on the phone (I don't think it possible since the call would I presume had to have logged on her incoming call list)

➍ She heard a soliloquy. e.g. Reeva, unable to sleep, nervous about the speech she was to give the next morning, went downstairs to practice. Now iirc the speech was about women in abusive relationships, all very emotive stuff and depending on the speaker could easily sound like a one sided argument which is not that surprising since that is basically what a speech is, a one sided argument. And if she were downstairs on the other side of OP's 580 sq m2 house he wouldn't hear her asleep or otherwise, (at least in the 200 sq m2 I am we can't hear anyone on the other side of the house downstairs even when we are awake). Further on a hot night talking doesn't need to be that "loud" to travel over open spaces in a direct line, and EVDM never said the voice she heard was loud and she thought that was a female too and it was only her husband said it was OP when at that time he had no way of knowing that it was.​

Or what explanation have others come up with for EVDM not hearing OP's voice? Unless there is a credible explanation how will Masipa find an argument between OP/RS with just one voice? And I can't see her speculating too much around what it could be either so my soliloquy is really just for my fantasy and Masipa may not even make a finding on it and leave EVDM's one sided argument as an unsolvable. JMHO

OP was used to the following M.O. :

1- OP is upset about something
2- OP gives RS some crap
3- RS takes it
4- RS explains her feelings later in a Whatsapp message
5- OP makes excuses and eventually apologizes halfheartedly
6- RS forgives OP

IF RS stood up to OP and gave as good as she got, OP would be taken aback by this novel situation

OP would skip to step 5 and make excuses

IF RS had enough of OP's BS, the argument and yelling would be one sided… Occam's razor

As for EVDM check out http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?237843-Timeline-Thread-***NO-DISCUSSION***&p=10644997#post10644997
 
It seems unlikely though that she could have left the room quietly, recited her speech, had a snack, gone back to bed after two and then woken at 3 ish and then decided she needed to pass urine. She would have only produced 30 ml of urine (or so) at night between 2-3 am, hardly enough to give the sensation of a full bladder. Common sense would dictate that if she'd be more likely to have gone to the bathroom after "practising her speech".

Why would Reeva have had to have gone back to bed after 2 and woken at 3 ish? And that wouldn't fit at all with the evidence because 2 (or 1:56) to 3 is exactly when EVDM heard the one sided so called "argument". And even going by OP's version she didn't "wake" at 3 ish because when he awoke she was already awake.

And if not going by OP's version whose to say it wasn't Reeva's returning to the bedroom after slipping off an hour before that what what woke OP up, or maybe he awoke and hearing her downstairs thought she was talking on the phone and that sparked his rage; you know where have you been, what were you doing, who were you talking to, etc. typical of the abusive controlling type if that is your case. I mean, the possibilities are endless, but for me a one voice "argument" just doesn't make any sense at all and IMO, and of course IMBW, I can't see how it will make sense to Masipa and Co, and Masipa showed quite an interest in the "one voice" EVDM heard since she, not just Roux, corrected Nel a couple of times when he referred to "voicES" when questioning EVDM. And BTW, practice and hygiene recommends emptying the bladder just before sleep and if there isn't an urge just try turning the tap and wait for it to work as it does for many!
 
I agree. And, I believe the argument was said to have started at 1:56 am. Somewhere there was a mention of a phone or internet connection made at 1:48am. Then I never heard anymore about it. Perhaps it was discovered to have been one of those auto/update things. It just always struck me as an odd coincidence that some kind of "communication device" showed activity so soon before argument started... IDK...

O/T - So nice, btw, to see post from Barnacle here today.

My theory is that OP used a DND app of his personal phone to make sure he wasn't disturbed at night… there is an news article about OP that says OP used such an app

DND = Do Not Disturb

These apps basically put your phone automatically into airplane mode between preset hours unless you manually touch the phone which means that you intend to use it… then the DND mode is switched off automatically… if you stop using the phone, when the phone goes into sleep mode, the phone automatically goes back into DND mode… very useful app

Between around 11PM and around 3:20AM OP's 0020 phone had ONLY 2 GPRS connections

OP goes to bed around 11PM… he plugs his phone for charging as he always does as per Sam Taylor

Phone goes into DND mode automatically

When OP unplugged his phone and went downstairs to investigate the noise RS made in the kitchen, DND mode was automatically turned off

01:48:48 GPRS connection : updates, incoming emails, tweets, etc...

OP put the phone in his pocket

Phone went back into sleep mode and automatically back into DND mode

When OP took the phone out of his pocket and searched for Johan Stander's phone number, DND mode was automatically turned off

03:18:45 GPRS connection : updates, incoming emails, tweets, etc...

18 seconds later OP was talking with Johan Stander at 03:19:03
 
To be clearer, supposing RS did have her cell at some point in that last hour and had dialed "anyone" but OP grabbed or knocked her phone away and stopped the call before it actually rang the number called, or had even rang once or twice but no one had yet answered, would that register on her account, or perhaps just on a call display on the receiving end?

I know I often get those "dead" calls but can sometimes catch the number on my call display before they hang up, I'm not up to date on the technology as per whether it would record on their end as a call, so am quite curious about the capabilities of service providers in that regard.


I suddenly remembered that all calls must register. Never given your number to someone just by just calling their mobile and letting it ring just once or twice? Even that once or twice logs the call as a missed call so yes, with mobiles and now I recall also with landline caller ID, and even before it was a service the telecos saw profitable and started to charge for it I recall my digital Panasonic picked up and store the 10 last numbers that called even if unanswered.
 
IDK but to date can't think of many possibilities which explain credibly, for me at least, EVDM not hearing OP's voice as the other party to the female voice she heard in this supposed "argument" when several neighbours heard him quite easily later, so I am stuck on 4 options:

➊ She heard someone or something else (she had no idea where the voice came from)

➋ She heard two "female" voices one of them OP's ! ;-)

➌ She heard Reeva arguing on the phone (I don't think it possible since the call would I presume had to have logged on her incoming call list)

➍ She heard a soliloquy. e.g. Reeva, unable to sleep, nervous about the speech she was to give the next morning, went downstairs to practice. Now iirc the speech was about women in abusive relationships, all very emotive stuff and depending on the speaker could easily sound like a one sided argument which is not that surprising since that is basically what a speech is, a one sided argument. And if she were downstairs on the other side of OP's 580 sq m2 house he wouldn't hear her asleep or otherwise, (at least in the 200 sq m2 I am we can't hear anyone on the other side of the house downstairs even when we are awake). Further on a hot night talking doesn't need to be that "loud" to travel over open spaces in a direct line, and EVDM never said the voice she heard was loud and she thought that was a female too and it was only her husband said it was OP when at that time he had no way of knowing that it was.​

Or what explanation have others come up with for EVDM not hearing OP's voice? Unless there is a credible explanation how will Masipa find an argument between OP/RS with just one voice? And I can't see her speculating too much around what it could be either so my soliloquy is really just for my fantasy and Masipa may not even make a finding on it and leave EVDM's one sided argument as an unsolvable. JMHO

You are missing the simple explanation, which is that OP wasn't shouting.

An argument needn't involve both parties raising their voices. Indeed, while one is shouting, the other may deliberately reply quietly, either to try to calm the situation, or as a passive-aggressive response. Or even not reply at all. All very common.
 
BIB
Nope, it was between 1:57 and 3 as per her testimony:

EVDM(I): My lady I woke up around 1:56 in the morning. I heard sounds. It seemed like somebody was involved in a fight and this people they are talking in loud voices, my lady. It lasted for about an hour. I couldn't hear what this person was saying and I also couldn't understand in what language this person was talking."

I think the interpreter misinterpreted "this people" and "loud voices" because she only heard one voice as per the following exchange after Nel referred to the "voices" she had heard:

Judge: She didn't say voices.
EVDM(W): Eine voice.
Judge: One voice.
Nel: One voice.
Judge: Thank you. Thank you.
EVDM(I): My lady, I just heard a woman’s voice.
Nel: Yes. Yes (inaudible).

and later:

EVDM(I): This person was talking, stopping, talking again. It wasn't continuously. To me, from where I was sleeping, my lady, it seemed like two people were involved in an argument, but I couldn't hear the other person's voice.

and later still:

Roux: Or, let me put it to you again, take you back, all you heard was a, I'm reading it again, (reads Afrikaans), now translated, that was, you heard a woman's voice, you could not hear the words or the language spoken, and it was "far from your house". That is what you heard.
VDMI: Yes, that's what I said, but I must say that I know a woman's voice, and there's many movements between a woman's voice, especially when we become angry, or cross my lady.
Roux: But here it's far away, you can't hear words, you can't hear language.
VDMI: To tell the honest truth, my lady, I do not know from which direction those sounds were coming from because [our time at home is to... to fall asleep].

Etc.

IDK but to date can't think of many possibilities which explain credibly, for me at least, EVDM not hearing OP's voice as the other party to the female voice she heard in this supposed "argument" when several neighbours heard him quite easily later, so I am stuck on 4 options:

➊ She heard someone or something else (she had no idea where the voice came from)

➋ She heard two "female" voices one of them OP's ! ;-)

➌ She heard Reeva arguing on the phone (I don't think it possible since the call would I presume had to have logged on her incoming call list)

➍ She heard a soliloquy. e.g. Reeva, unable to sleep, nervous about the speech she was to give the next morning, went downstairs to practice. Now iirc the speech was about women in abusive relationships, all very emotive stuff and depending on the speaker could easily sound like a one sided argument which is not that surprising since that is basically what a speech is, a one sided argument. And if she were downstairs on the other side of OP's 580 sq m2 house he wouldn't hear her asleep or otherwise, (at least in the 200 sq m2 I am we can't hear anyone on the other side of the house downstairs even when we are awake). Further on a hot night talking doesn't need to be that "loud" to travel over open spaces in a direct line, and EVDM never said the voice she heard was loud and she thought that was a female too and it was only her husband said it was OP when at that time he had no way of knowing that it was.​

Or what explanation have others come up with for EVDM not hearing OP's voice? Unless there is a credible explanation how will Masipa find an argument between OP/RS with just one voice? And I can't see her speculating too much around what it could be either so my soliloquy is really just for my fantasy and Masipa may not even make a finding on it and leave EVDM's one sided argument as an unsolvable. JMHO

Ever heard of cold anger or that phrase "revenge is a dish best served cold", especially if one is known to be let than normally empathetic to others? That's where the angry person doesn't say much and if they do, it's in a calm, cold manner. They then get on with what they have decided to do about the "problem", whether that be walk away, respond/confront/retaliate, and often both in the long term, the respond/confront/retaliate can come much later than the walking away, especially if the respond/confront/retaliate requires any planning.
 
You are missing the simple explanation, which is that OP wasn't shouting.

An argument needn't involve both parties raising their voices. Indeed, while one is shouting, the other may deliberately reply quietly, either to try to calm the situation, or as a passive-aggressive response. Or even not reply at all. All very common.
That's how me and my ex used to row! I would yell and he'd always argue in an angry 'low tone' or was it a whisper, wait, low tone, no, whisper, hmmm - anyway, the neighbours only ever heard me yelling, never him!
 
Hi all, I noticed that the YouTube video on Lisa's blog has been removed by the person that posted the video.

I've found another version. I'm going to download this tonight in case this one is also removed, but for anyone looking for it, here it is: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x211pto_oscar-pistorius-sunday-night-2014-07-06_news

Full episode :)

Thanks very much, I'm really having trouble watching this again.. I was going to try and transcribe it this is all I managed to get done before I had to turn it off, may try again later:

-------------------------------------------
"Okay we're rolling, okay" from Roder?, OP walks down the carpet, turns and walks back to the chair in the entrance to the room. Cutaway to clip of OP running/winning a race on his blades and Roder talking about how confident he is on his "legs" and when just on his stumps how short and that the confidence washes away from his face. Then back to OP "running" on the carpet with his right arm stretched out straight as if holding a gun.

OP telling the crew
"That's probably the speed, the fastest speed I've ever been able to go."

"Okay"from Roder? then cutaway to scene of entrance to estate then immediately to re-enactment of him going down the passage.

OP in a soft low voice
"Reeves there's someone in the house call the police call the police call the police babe"

OP shouting(nowhere near as much emotion as his display in court)
"Get out! Get out of my ****ing house! Get out! Reeva call the police get out!

OP at a corner to simulate the passage into the bathroom, we hear loud screeching of a magazine rack on tile in video.

OP says calmly
"And I heard that noise and I fired four shots."

Cutaway to RS's parents talking and questioning why. Then back to OP kneeling on his prosthetics and laying his sister down at the bottom of some stairs.

Lots more about RS, etc. Back to re-enactment stuff.(didn't transcribe all of this, it jumped around alot)

Roder talking to host
"As you can hear the fans are quite loud umm and when I was doing the reconstruction at the scene I had both of these exact fans, it's quite loud and quite distracting. So at this particular time either while he was repositioning the fans or while he was closing the sliding glass doors Reeva gets up to go to the toilet."

More...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Why would Reeva have had to have gone back to bed after 2 and woken at 3 ish? And that wouldn't fit at all with the evidence because 2 (or 1:56) to 3 is exactly when EVDM heard the one sided so called "argument". And even going by OP's version she didn't "wake" at 3 ish because when he awoke she was already awake.

And if not going by OP's version whose to say it wasn't Reeva's returning to the bedroom after slipping off an hour before that what what woke OP up, or maybe he awoke and hearing her downstairs thought she was talking on the phone and that sparked his rage; you know where have you been, what were you doing, who were you talking to, etc. typical of the abusive controlling type if that is your case. I mean, the possibilities are endless, but for me a one voice "argument" just doesn't make any sense at all and IMO, and of course IMBW, I can't see how it will make sense to Masipa and Co, and Masipa showed quite an interest in the "one voice" EVDM heard since she, not just Roux, corrected Nel a couple of times when he referred to "voicES" when questioning EVDM. And BTW, practice and hygiene recommends emptying the bladder just before sleep and if there isn't an urge just try turning the tap and wait for it to work as it does for many!

No, you're correct, the argument was heard between 2-3am. But that makes the bathroom visit less plausible - if Reeva was up for an hour between 2 and 3am why would she slip back into bed at 3am to coo sweetness at Oscar only to jump straight back out again to urinate? If "practice and hygiene recommends emptying the bladder just before sleep" then why visits the bathroom again after she's back in bed?

Re the "one voice", I know personal anecdotes aren't that useful but I go for a run most nights and I frequently run past a hours where a couple is ALWAYS arguing. The distance from the road is less than 50 metres but I have to concentrate quite hard to hear the man's voice, she's usually much louder. (Disclaimer : I've only tried to listen a few times and only since the trial began!) I would be happy in court to state that it was an argument due to the tone of her voice, and , more importantly, the way she is talking in turn. Even though i'm pretty close I don't always hear individual words and as such could not and would not be able to confidently state which language they're speaking in.
 

Thanks, though Rober did state on the video, "As you can hear the fans are quite loud umm and when I was doing the reconstruction at the scene I had both of these exact fans, it's quite loud and quite distracting. So at this particular time either while he was repositioning the fans or while he was closing the sliding glass doors Reeva gets up to go to the toilet."

To me that sounded like he did indeed use the ones from OP's and not these other ones, otherwise how could he know if they were as loud or perhaps louder than the ones in question?
 
I have done transcript of cross examaniation by Nel of OP regarding the rapid shots & his intent. This is when OP seemed to change his version to "accidently" discharging his firearm. Towards the end Nel very cleverly puts it all into the record in point form.

PART 1

THURSDAY 10/4/14
15 MINS BEFORE LUNCH NEL SWITCHES FROM THE SUNROOF SHOOTING INCIDENT TO FIRING OF SHOOTS ON 14/2/13
GN : The…. (Long pause) I don’t want to get you confused, so I’m going to the scene of the early morning of the 14th Feb. In the bathroom your firing shots, how many shots did you fire?
OP : I fired 4 shots My Lady
GN : In what sequence, how did you, was it 2 double taps or
OP : No just in quick succession My Lady
GN : In quick succession, you know that for a fact
OP : That’s correct My Lady
GN : Because you can remember it
OP : That’s correct My Lady
GN : It’s not a reconstruction
OP : No My Lady
GN : And it was definitely not 2 double taps
OP : That’s correct My Lady
GN : Why would Mr Roux think & put to Mangena, Ct. Mangena that you fired 2 double taps
OP : I’m not sure My Lady, but that is what he put to Mr Mangena & in the first break I corrected him & I said to him, that it wasn’t a double tap My Lady
GN : But, but before you go to you correcting. Why would he say that?
OP : I’m not sure My Lady
GN : No it, it’s impossible, Mr Roux will not say something, forget the correction. Mr Roux would not put something to a witness that’s not your version, why would he say 2 double taps?
OP : My Lady, the only explanation I can think of is, that when we spoke about training, in firearm training, you fire, you learn to fire 2 shots which is a double tap, it’s called a double tap and I think that maybe Mr Roux put that to Mr Mangena. I can’t say why he did, but I corrected him immediately at the break, that’s all.
GN : But you see you went further, he said to Mr Mangena that It’s your version… that you fired 2 double taps. It wasn’t that, “is it possible”, he put it as a version.
OP : I understand that My Lady
 
Part 2

Milady : Mr Nel, he has answered, he can’t say, all he knows is that he corrected Mr Roux.
GN : May I ask a follow up question?
GN : The only reason why he would do that, is if you had told him, he wouldn’t do it any other way
OP : That’s incorrect My Lady, I didn’t say that, I didn’t tell Mr Roux that I fired a double tap at any point.
GN : But you know it was in quick succession
OP : Yes
GN : How do you know that?
OP : Because that’s what I remember My Lady
GN : How do you remember that?
OP : (mumbled something) I don’t, I don’t really understand how
GN : But
OP : How I’m meant to explain, how I remember something
FEED LOST FOR 1-2 MINUTES
OP : Later on I found out that it was 4 shots
GN : Remember I asked you if you could remember, so you can, you don’t know how many but you can remember quick succession.
OP : That’s correct My Lady
GN : How can you remember quick succession?
OP : I don’t understand the question My Lady
GN : so you remember pulling the trigger in quick succession
OP : Yes that’s correct My Lady
GN : Because in your evidence, it’s a bit different…you said… (GN – now I’m just trying to get that… My Lady, I’m just trying to get that specific point)
GN : You know what your evidence was, at page 1475….”Before I knew it, I had fired 4 shots at the door, my ears were ringing”
Op : That’s correct My Lady
GN : So, can, is that a reconstruction
 
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