Trial Discussion Thread #47 - 14.07.8, Day 38

[delilah]

Defense talks about ‘the video’ - Exhibit 3: “Subject to your ruling. We are satisfied that it could be dealt with in the heads of states argument.

snipped

what video? The zombie stopper? I'm presuming it's not the one they did not dare to speak of...

 

[soozieqtips]

Paysee - I don't see any problem at all with trying to put a face to a voice.

I think it's perfectly normal for many people, myself included.

 

[Paysee]

Paysee - I don't see any problem at all with trying to put a face to a voice.

I think it's perfectly normal for many people, myself included.

Yep.

I was responding to the post criticizing people for posting pic of the Stipps going to dinner.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Interesting Q re: if SA has double jeopardy !! I don't know the ans, but look forward to somebody giving one. Btw, am bit surprised it's no longer used in UK. I wonder why? As for the states, it's still the law.

Re: Frank... I really feel sorry for him as he was, imo, in an untenable position. I've been wondering how much money he has already been offered by media. As to him perhaps selling his story after the trial, I have mixed emotions. Cato, who I fully believe lied for OJ during trial, came forth after-the-fact with what I consider to be the truth. That made my blood boil !!

I was disappointed that the Stipps's housekeeper wasn't called to testify. She was, according to Mrs. Stipp, awake at the time of the killing.

BIB 1 I understand where you are coming from but I feel there can never be an excuse to allow someone to get away with murder. Yes, it would be difficult for him but how on earth does one live with one's conscience by hiding the truth, which is what I feel he has done.

BIB2 With respect to Mrs Stipp's housekeeper, I too wonder why she did not testify.

Here is a link about the UK dropping the double jeopardy law way back in 2005:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4406129.stm

 

[james83]

You have to wonder why such an anxious, fearful, helpless legless disabled man would keep his gun under his bed rather than right there next to him at the side of the bed, if someone had broke into his bedroom by the time he realised what was going on he would have had zero chance of getting to his gun before being killed/overpowered, very odd.

 

[acejase]

i just wanna get everyone's thoughts on the other charges im pretty sure he will appeal the murder charge but cant see what grounds he would have for the other 1s (firing in the restaurant and keeping the ammo in safe) so im hoping he has to spend time in jail on those even if he appeals on the murder charge as they wasn't contested much in court so seems pretty open and shut he is guilty of those and they must carry a custodial sentence so whats everyone's thoughts /knowledge of them charges going to appeal too

 

[delilah]

Did we ever find out whether his *advertiser censored* panic button was working and if so why he didn't use it? I can't remember.

The most logical thing for someone in his position to do would have been to get his gun then hide in the bedroom so he could pick off the non-intruder advancing into the bedroom. He might even at that stage have noticed RS wasn't there with him.

 

[delilah]

i just wanna get everyone's thoughts on the other charges im pretty sure he will appeal the murder charge but cant see what grounds he would have for the other 1s (firing in the restaurant and keeping the ammo in safe) so im hoping he has to spend time in jail on those even if he appeals on the murder charge as they wasn't contested much in court so seems pretty open and shut he is guilty of those and they must carry a custodial sentence so whats everyone's thoughts /knowledge of them charges going to appeal too

He's bang to rights on those two charges - he's barely offered a defence. On the third, it's his word against the two witnesses. I can't see his having any grounds for appeal when he gets convicted of the first two.

 

[foxbluff]

BIB 1 I understand where you are coming from but I feel there can never be an excuse to allow someone to get away with murder. Yes, it would be difficult for him but how on earth does one live with one's conscience by hiding the truth, which is what I feel he has done.

BIB2 With respect to Mrs Stipp's housekeeper, I too wonder why she did not testify.

Here is a link about the UK dropping the double jeopardy law way back in 2005:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4406129.stm

I found this link of great interest! I think the UK's stance on double jeopardy is nothing short of brilliant !! Very well-constructed with the limitations put on it. The advent of DNA alone, imo, makes this worthwhile.

I would love to see the states follow suit. My first recommendation would be that we put OJ and Casey Anthony back on trial. <pic fox off to write lawmakers>

 

[soozieqtips]

You have to wonder why such an anxious, fearful, helpless legless disabled man would keep his gun under his bed rather than right there next to him at the side of the bed, if someone had broke into his bedroom by the time he realised what was going on he would have had zero chance of getting to his gun before being killed/overpowered, very odd.

Right. Zero chance of protecting himself. And I don't remember him saying that's where he usually kept it. He just happened to keep it there that particular night, so that he (in my opinion) had another reason for not seeing Reeva as he would have done if it had been on the pedestal next to the bed in its usual position. Remember in his testimony, he had to stop himself from saying it retrieved it from 'next' to the bed, but he'd already started to say 'next' before quickly correcting himself and saying 'under' the bed.

 

[Val1]

BBM - Have you got a link for that by any chance?

1. I doubt the missing extension cord would be grounds for appeal, because OP's testimony didn't rely on a single cord to prove guilt or innocence.

2. Couldn't Roux simply have asked for an adjournment until the psychiatrist was fit to attend if it was that important?

3. Roux could have subpoenaed them, but he didn't.

4. Any mention of which of Masipa's rulings against the DT? I thought she was overly cautious much of the time in order to avoid any possibility of an appeal.

I think the DT are clutching at straws yet again. If OP is jailed on the gun charges, he can sort out his appeal from jail. If he's convicted of murder, he should be kept away from the public. Innocent people shouldn't have to tolerate a trigger-happy convicted murderer in their midst.

1. Since the guy in the video said he was using the same fans, perhaps he has the "missing" cord and since the DT and family were the ones commissioning it and supplying the furniture and location, at least for the initial work on it, I'm sure they were well aware that the PT did not and never had collected any of those items as evidence.

2. Yes of course, he's asked for delays for less valid reasons imo.

3. He also could have asked if the court would allow them to be called without cameras or voice recording if these "witnesses" were so vital to his case.

4. I'm sure there are a few things they didn't like since they seem to think letting OP walk free with no penalty for any of the charges is the only acceptable outcome.

What I would like to know, can the PT file for a new trial on similar grounds if the DT manages to get OP off on some technicality or is this it, one shot? I still can't believe more wasn't made of the stolen cell phone, RS's stolen handbag, the data from both I-pads, Frank, etc., I'm just hoping the judge has had all of this actually entered as evidence and will use it to help her in her decision. Given her comment on leaks and how she views that as theft... I'm crossing my fingers that she also considers stolen evidence is even more serious and how it may have hamstringed the PT's case well beyond the DT's non-substantiated claims of police tampering.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I doubt whether he would get jail for the gun offences as he has no misuse of guns history. I think he is likely to get a very hefty fine instead and be banned from ever holding a gun again (not that I think that would work - I am sure he would find a way). I can see him being out on bail for the next 2 years unless his appeal (which is sure to come) is fast tracked. Even if Masipa thinks another judge would come to the same conclusion and disallows an appeal he still has a higher court he can use and surely will if it comes to it.

 

[kittychi]

You have to wonder why such an anxious, fearful, helpless legless disabled man would keep his gun under his bed rather than right there next to him at the side of the bed, if someone had broke into his bedroom by the time he realised what was going on he would have had zero chance of getting to his gun before being killed/overpowered, very odd.

BBM: Before being killed/overpowered by someone walking in from the balcony doors, for that matter, or in via the broken window downstairs.

 

[AJ_DS]

Right. Zero chance of protecting himself. And I don't remember him saying that's where he usually kept it. He just happened to keep it there that particular night, so that he (in my opinion) had another reason for not seeing Reeva as he would have done if it had been on the pedestal next to the bed in its usual position. Remember in his testimony, he had to stop himself from saying it retrieved it from 'next' to the bed, but he'd already started to say 'next' before quickly correcting himself and saying 'under' the bed.

Sam Taylor

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?237843-Timeline-Thread-***NO-DISCUSSION***&p=10644997#post10644997 at the very top of the post

 

[acejase]

My guess is that it was released by the Pistorius clan to turn public opinion in OP's favour (an effect it did tend to produce on those who had not been following the evidence critically). I suspect that the DT genuinely did not want the thing shown and are genuinely outraged and may indeed have thought it was obtained illegally because Uncle A probably went behind their backs, realizing that they would disapprove and thinking (mistakenly) that he knew better.

im thinking the same too or oscar sold it to get money due to all the expense he has had in this trial and having to sell his house ect.....also maybe the defense had a couple more witnesses lined up right up till the video was out then they changed there minds as it would of made them look fools to the public that have seen it hence roux leaving it a day to try and persuade them before closing his case...jmo

 

[Marfa Lights]

Sunday Night video:

in the reconstruction, where OP is not only talking, but playing/being him, why didn't he became emotional?

Yes, I wondered where was that Stan Laurel wimpering voice he used to such great effect on the stand.

 

[soozieqtips]

Sam Taylor

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?237843-Timeline-Thread-***NO-DISCUSSION***&p=10644997#post10644997 at the very top of the post

Thanks for the link. Sam Taylor knew his routine, but things had to differ the night he killed Reeva, so he could insist he didn't see her in bed at any point after he heard the 'noise'. His gun was conveniently in a different position and he was sleeping on a different side of the bed, which was odd, seeing that Reeva's stuff was still on the other side. If ever I've needed to switch places with someone in bed, we've both moved our things to that side of the bed as well - watch, phone, water, slippers, etc.

 

[Val1]

Wow! I would think it would be a travesty of justice if Judges and juries came to their verdicts using the media and online blogs as a source! And a step further, such an idea would appear to make the total media and online blackout system from the commission of a crime until trial adopted in the UK a travesty of justice all around! Wow again!

I would think that the poster meant that the part showing OP's mobility on his stumps should be made available as evidence, if only to refute his pitiful performance in the courtroom.

 

[Viper]

After seeing OP walk as fast as he possibly could in that video, does anyone now have the opinion that his Ossur Cheeta Racing Prosthetics don't offer him an advantage? He literally goes from one of the slowest men in the world to the 16th fastest man in the world just by putting them on.

Perhaps a very good reason as to why he did not want that video released...

 

[Val1]

I doubt whether he would get jail for the gun offences as he has no misuse of guns history. I think he is likely to get a very hefty fine instead and be banned from ever holding a gun again (not that I think that would work - I am sure he would find a way). I can see him being out on bail for the next 2 years unless his appeal (which is sure to come) is fast tracked. Even if Masipa thinks another judge would come to the same conclusion and disallows an appeal he still has a higher court he can use and surely will if it comes to it.

Isn't that how he got his bail conditions revoked, appealing to a different or higher court than the one that had imposed them as is the norm from what I had read?