Trial Discussion Thread #48

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[Pistorius friend] Mike [Azzi’s] son Dexter has often spent the weekend at Pistorius’s home. ... Dexter was at the house two weeks before Christmas and recalled how he knocked over a fan and Pistorius became panic-stricken. The athlete immediately grabbed his gun for protection before shouting to check if Dexter was OK. - March 9 2013
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-suicidal-reveals-best-1753776

That’s right, folks, Oscar first SHOUTED to see if his friend Dexter was alright!

(WHY didn’t OP shout to Reeva as he grabbed his gun from under the bed she was supposedly in? He could freaking reach out and touch her!)

OP did NOT shoot girlfriend Sam Taylor. He asked her about noises in the night before investigating.
OP did NOT shoot his washing machine. He investigated the noise.
OP did NOT shoot his friend Dexter Azzi. He shouted to him.

OP did shoot Reeva Steenkamp. He did NOT ask her about the “noise”.

WHY???

Only on this one night, only with Reeva Steenkamp, did he NOT do the one thing he had always previously done.

Tell me again this was just an “accident”, a “tragic mistake”.

I don't think he gave the dog he shot any warning but I suppose that's maybe because it was trying to run away from him too.

I'm now on to the lovely Capt Mangena's testimony :) I do hope Nel addresses all the things Roux said he would "come back to" but never did. From watching this again, it appears that Roux was constantly trying to create the idea of police corruption and ineptness but how clever of Nel to completely dodge putting Hilton Botha on the stand and still managing to make the state's case.
 
This is why I wish Nel had dipped into the apparent "cover-up" activities shortly after OP killed RS. Surely the evidence we already have points to premeditation(thought he could get away with it in the few moments it took to get his gun and shoot her dead)? Garbage bags, twist ties, then the possibly unlocked and running car sitting in the driveway(didn't quiz the Standers or bring into evidence any of that iirc), an open front door, turning off the alarm so as not to trigger it and cause all and everyone to come running, all points to the ability to getting a body out quickly and quietly into that car, a few quick calls to your closest and most loyal friends, including the head of security for your complex to possibly ensure you could get out the gate without having to log it and for the cameras to perhaps conveniently be "accidentally" off-line(gee, why not just scrub it all for any entries after RS had left the first time), oh and your immigrant "housekeeper" that has cleaned up your "messes" for the last 2+ years awake and in the street shortly after 3am, who supposedly didn't hear or know anything about that whole night(heck maybe he wasn't even aware that his "boss" was in town that week eh?...but we'll never know officially now) while you had perhaps spent the night at your best friend's(see phone calls) after a "boys night" out and had been too tired to drive home, see "training" schedule.

Yea, I can hear the lament now...
RS is missing oh my, but she was supposed to have gone to the movies... she must have been hijacked while driving home which I told her never to do.... now I don't want that house close to where she was temporarily staying with friends after all, you know, the one that I couldn't really afford but I was buying it for her ...

That buying a house to be close to someone and then claiming or insinuating that you were going to be living together in it doesn't make any sense to start with, if that was true, it shouldn't matter where the house was. Nevermind that he'd been in the market for the previous couple of years to both sell his house and buy another one in town...
:moo:

Yep would have good for Nel to highlight all his lies after shooting to further discredit OP but then OP's creditablity was already in the toilet when he couldn't get his defense right. I guess Nel just quit while he was ahead (sorta like cricket although I hate cricket :D. Should have been like football and kept the onslaught going eg Germany Brazil haha sorry off topic)
 
http://www.nickvanderleek.com/2014/04/an-easter--of-oscar.html

I thought this article was really insightful (except the conclusion, which I didn't quite follow).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks, I enjoyed that (he did go a bit off course at the end though, eh?).
 
Thanks, I enjoyed that (he did go a bit off course at the end though, eh?).

I got the impression he was more than a little smitten with Reeva in that article.

E.T.A Apologies, it was the wrong article. It must have been another blog by the same guy.
 
Even if they don't believe he "murdered" her in cold blood, he did admit to shooting her through a closed toilet door and killing her, I really cannot understand why he would think people would just let it go and welcome him back with open arms. Surely there must be at least one or two among his vastly large and wealthy family that are having trouble accepting OP's versions and excuses. Even if he was one of my sons, at this point I'd certainly be hard-pressed to believe that he's not at least partially culpable for any negative publicity he receives when he continues to insist on living like he'd done nothing wrong before his trial has even finished, let alone for what he's being charged with.

BIB. If Massipa was to find that OP's actions were reasonable on that night and that he acted in self defence and acquitted him on all charges, should "society not welcome him back with open arms."

Just playing devil's advocate
 
By the by, going back to the cell phone that was stolen from the crime scene and kept for almost two weeks... has it ever come up that OP's brother may have been knowledgeable enough to know how to "tamper" with it, no need to call in outside help?

https://media.otd.co.za/Pdf.ashx?id=87360&dl=true&src=false


http://showbizdaily.net/8083/who-is-the-woman-oscar-pistorius-brother-carl-pistorius-killed/

BIB

I know this notion of tampering has come up many times, but I haven't seen any details as to just what type of tampering.

All of the text messages, chat messages could have been deleted from the phone, but surely, the respective service providers have nightly backups and for a police investigation, they would certainly go back to the tape. I wonder if this is just a red herring.
 
Why ?

I believe you can pay Google to promote your website so it appears in the top search results, no ?

Right now, "Oscar Pistorius, Official Website of The Blade Runner" is search result #1… coincidence ?

BIB. This is advertising. It's like a TV commercial, you pay Google a certain amount of money and your sponsored link shows up at the top of Google for a certain number of views. Once you stop paying, your ad no longer shows.

Google won't change their natural listings for any amount of payment.

But, there are consulting companies that will try and manipulate search engine listings so that more favourable news appears at the top and less favourable news is buried.
 
BIB

I know this notion of tampering has come up many times, but I haven't seen any details as to just what type of tampering.

All of the text messages, chat messages could have been deleted from the phone, but surely, the respective service providers have nightly backups and for a police investigation, they would certainly go back to the tape. I wonder if this is just a red herring.

The DT might not be able to have stopped the PT from sourcing the pings as recorded by the sp, but any actual data(messages, photos, videos) could have been wiped clean or even just manipulated if you know what you're doing, that is how these "new" recovery programs came to be, if someone knows how to recover data then obviously they also know how to make sure you can't recover it.

Also, don't forget the PT(due largely imo to the change in who was on and in charge of the police doing the investigation) was reprimanded for not getting the records fast enough at the bail hearing. So that tells me that there's a time limit(iirc someone had said it was two weeks) as to how long a sp has to keep records for and iirc the DT hung onto the cell for almost two full weeks before handing it over. So what happened in the two or three or even four weeks prior that needed to be gone?

Re your other question as to whether we have to accept OP back into society if he's found innocent... sorry but a self-confessed killer will never be "innocent" in my eyes and even if I have to live in the same society as them, I certainly have no obligation to welcome them back with open arms, especially if they have fought tooth and nail against being held accountable for their actions.
 
Thanks for this post. Awe he was lonely, so he went to a bar! He should of gone to Reeva's grave she is not only lonely but cold...very cold. What unbelievable arrogance and an embarrassment for the fans he use to have and their country.

BIB - Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Reeva was cremated?
 
Naturally the Pistorius clan have realized the Truth about how Oscar Pistorius murdered Reeva… they are NOT mentally challenged.

They prefer an ongoing moral struggle than to see OP go to prison for life.

Also, there is a selfish psychological reason behind doing everything in their power to help OP… if OP is sent to prison, they won't be able to convince themselves that they are somehow to blame.

I think it is more than this. I believe it is a case of strong loyalty to family and the notion of blood is thicker than water. It may not apply to Pistorius and his father, but it certainly does seem to apply to the relationship between Pistorius and his uncle.
 
Just an idea…

Perhaps Masipa was referring to OP being 'sentenced' mid-Trial to a mandatory Court-ordered referral which was not desired and being opposed by Defence as a first 'punishment'.

Being referred as an inpatient would be the second 'punishment' as OP was granted bail and the outpatient option was readily available.

Thanks for the thoughts, I would accept that.

I do feel Masipa made a mistake in her decision on this subject. From everything I read, these sorts of referrals are always done on in-patient basis so that sleeping patterns can also be assessed as could the patient's behaviour at night. For OP, this was not possible.

While I can't say with certainty that the end result would have been any different if OP was an in-patient, nevertheless, it does sent a precedent for future killers to be assessed on an out-patient basis.

There have been a few examples where OP has been treated with kid gloves from this out-patient referral, to being granted bail, to having his bail restrictions regarding drinking and travelling being lifted, etc etc. An average Joe wouldn't have these sorts of benefits offered to him.
 
BIB. If Massipa was to find that OP's actions were reasonable on that night and that he acted in self defence and acquitted him on all charges, should "society not welcome him back with open arms."

Just playing devil's advocate

In the extremely unlikely event that Judge Masipa acquits him, society has NO obligation whatsoever to Oscar Pistorius.

He made his choice - he can live with it ... on the outer fringes, a pariah.

Acquittal does not equal innocence.

But, no worries, Oz won't be lonely, even though he's already fallen into the Pit of Persona Non Grata - it appears he's already got plenty of criminal friends to party with. A certain narrow, very unique social strata will always be attracted to such dark notoriety.

Poor Oscar. Accustomed to a certain royal status and lifestyle that's now forever gone - he may find that social ostracization is worse than any hellhole prison.

Indeed, he got a good taste of it at the VIP Room.
 
I was thinking about the same thing. A truly scary thought as I'd assume a not guilty verdict would also mean he's free to start gun collecting again :(

BIB, hadn't thought about that, but you are right.....that would be a scary thought. Even if OP was found to be innocent, his life is ruined and I believe he will be a social pariah, almost like OJ. I suspect that somewhere down the road, he would have another brush with the law as well. Somehow, karma always seems to work its way around to bring balance.
 
Hi all,

I know it's a lot to ask, but is it possible to get a brief summation of events from around the time of the expert witness who had recently had back surgery? I forget his name and profession.

What's going on right now? Haven't seen the trial in the news for a while.
 
BIB. If Massipa was to find that OP's actions were reasonable on that night and that he acted in self defence and acquitted him on all charges, should "society not welcome him back with open arms."

Just playing devil's advocate

If that were to happen, I think a lot of people would suspect that money and influence had brought about such a result.

There have been a few examples where OP has been treated with kid gloves from this out-patient referral, to being granted bail, to having his bail restrictions regarding drinking and travelling being lifted, etc etc. An average Joe wouldn't have these sorts of benefits offered to him.

Mmm hmm.
 
Guys does anyone know how/if I can download these forums? Am going on a 15 hour flight and this would be amazing if this forum was available off line on the plane. Any thoughts?
 
Guys does anyone know how/if I can download these forums? Am going on a 15 hour flight and this would be amazing if this forum was available off line on the plane. Any thoughts?

Thread Tools > Show Printable Version

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Try this.
 
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