Trial Discussion Thread #48

[vansleuths]

He is a killer. A self-confessed killer. And even if (in the unlikely chance) it is ruled an accident, all his skeletons have come out of the closet for all of society to see. He has a history of reckless behavior - drunk boating accident, self-admitted speed freak, he ran over someone's pet..and then put a bullet through its head, he shot through an open sunroof, he shot in a crowded restaurant, he assaulted Taylor-Memmory, he was in possession of unlicensed .38 special ammo, he pulled a gun on his washing machine, as well as on his friend Azzie..because he made a noise getting a drink of water in the middle of the night. He also has a history of threatening people - he told Van der Burgh (who had to get a restraining order against him) that he'd "f#©k him up," he told Batchelor that he'd break his legs, and he snarled "how do you sleep at night" to Gina Myers as he exited the courtroom.........the guy is a loose cannon.

Even if he isn't deemed a danger to society by a court of law, society knows what he has done, and society knows what he is capable of. Acquittal or conviction, he does not possess the qualities or character traits of someone society is likely to "welcome back with open arms."

MOO

BIB

I read a great article about how good of a job PR companies can do. Unfortunately, I don't have the link any more.

When Tiger Woods was cheating on his wife, everyone thought he was "icky" and no one wanted to be near him. Tiger stepped away from golf for several months and there were even rumours that he was quitting the game. He went back to his roots of religion and charity (real or perceived) and after some time away from the game, he came back.

It's unlikely that OP will be free at the end of this trial, but his public image could be rehabilitated.

Did you know the former first lady, Laura Bush caused the death of someone in a car accident. I never knew that and many Republicans swear up and down this never happened. When pressed, they say it was Laura Welch, the time before she was married....go figure

http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/laura.asp

 

[44ALLAN]

Another classic ..................'Roux thrown under the bus' moment brought about by OP lies.

Whilst XE of Samantha Taylor Roux ask her about the time they were followed by a 'WHITE MERCEDES' and OP jumped out and approached them and pointed his gun at them.

Sam then says....................I can remember he did that to a 'BLACK BMW' LMFAO.

Give credit to Roux though he didn't break stride and countered immediately..............'Well tell us about that it must have been another time'.

LOL.

Classic stuff if it wasn't so tragic.

 

[808]

BIB

I read a great article about how good of a job PR companies can do. Unfortunately, I don't have the link any more.

When Tiger Woods was cheating on his wife, everyone thought he was "icky" and no one wanted to be near him. Tiger stepped away from golf for several months and there were even rumours that he was quitting the game. He went back to his roots of religion and charity (real or perceived) and after some time away from the game, he came back.

It's unlikely that OP will be free at the end of this trial, but his public image could be rehabilitated.

Did you know the former first lady, Laura Bush caused the death of someone in a car accident. I never knew that and many Republicans swear up and down this never happened. When pressed, they say it was Laura Welch, the time before she was married....go figure

http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/laura.asp

I know what your saying about Laura Bush having a surprising public image despite the accidental killing.
It is just such a stretch to see that Pistolius will ever be anything more than the spoiled child who had no excuses when executing RS behind a locked door. He moaned, spewed and cried his way through trial and used every avenue to escape responsibility. He will never run again and have people cheer him on so what does that leave him? If it's fame for fame sake even OJ couldn't exploit that after it was obvious he executed his ex and lover in brutal fashion too.

Laura Bush = Reasonable doubt of intent
OJ = Impossible 1 in 3 000 000 DNA chance it wasn't him
OP = So improbable to be impossible

 

[vansleuths]

I know what your saying about Laura Bush having a surprising public image despite the accidental killing.
It is just such a stretch to see that Pistolius will ever be anything more than the spoiled child who had no excuses when executing RS behind a locked door. He moaned, spewed and cried his way through trial and used every avenue to escape responsibility. He will never run again and have people cheer him on so what does that leave him? If it's fame for fame sake even OJ couldn't exploit that after it was obvious he executed his ex and lover in brutal fashion too.

Laura Bush = Reasonable doubt of intent
OJ = Impossible 1 in 3 000 000 DNA chance it wasn't him
OP = So improbable to be impossible

View attachment 55420

BIB This is the first trial that I have watched and I started watching it when OP began testifying. When OP went for his 30-day evaluation, I went back and watched every second of the trial. I found it fascinating and am familiar with his behaviour in court.

However, the average person probably does not. I know co-workers around me know that OP is an Olympic athlete on trial for murder but that's all they know. They don't know about the antics in court or anything more.

If he were to be found not guilty, I'm sure these co-workers would go on their merry way supporting him, just like the Pistorians do outside court every day.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

JUSTICE SEEKERS - March 29 - DailyMail ##########NOTES FOR VALENTINE'S DAY SPEECH REEVA STEENKAMP NEVER MADE##########Below are the rough notes Miss Steenkamp made for the speech at Sandown High School, a co-educational government school in Johannesburg.They are reproduced exactly as she wrote them.#########################################################"Who received flowers/chocolates/cards/messages/tweets/etc today (February 14) for Valentine's Day?Tell them what I received, make a small joke about this. And then tell them that receiving those things is very special but not receiving anything doesn't define you as a person or make you less valued!!!###############1. I was raised on a small farm just outside of Cape Town. In a way I was blessed and privileged to be away from the pressures of city life and I grew up to appreciate the simpler things above the superficial.###############2. I will chat about life on the farm, having no money but being blessed with amazing parents who never allowed me to be aware of my circumstances. Some 'looking back now' points somewhere after this would fit in###############.3. After moving to PE and deciding to study Law despite our financial situation, I worked hard to be acknowledged as one of the top 15 per cent academics at university so that my studies could be 80% covered by bursaries and I worked to pay off the rest.###############4. I broke my back towards the end of varsity. Learnt mobility again and made a massive life decision with regards to my career. I will elaborate on this part of my journey.###############5. I was in an abusive relationship at the same time (his mother used to abuse him) and all together these factors encouraged my move to Jozi.###############6. Despite my height disadvantage and the difficulty in general of breaking into the modeling industry, I put my head down and worked hard towards my dream.###############7. I lost a lot of self worth during my last year in PE before I moved to Jozi and it took some serious soul searching to remind myself of my value in this world.###############8. Being loved by others, although an amazing feeling to have the appreciation of others, does not define your place in the world.###############9. Accept who you are. Acknowledge your absolute 'CAN DOS' in life and work on your 'MAYBES' so that you can be a better person for the ultimate upliftment of those around you.###############10. No matter how many people say that they 'love' you, if you do not love your person then you will never step outside of the physical you. The physical you can only do so much if your mental you is lost inside of all the confusion.###############11. Be brave. Always see the positive. Make your voice heard. Your physical seen. And the presence of your mental you felt. Its that culmination of your person that will leave a legacy and uplift.###############12. I hope that you have the most amazing VD and that you are spoilt with love and roses and chocolates. Go home and tell your parents, siblings, neighbours that they are appreciated. You will go to bed with a happy heart and open mind for the future

Oh god, this just makes me CRY.

What a beautiful, kind soul. She had a huge bounty to offer the world.

I think Reeva was the true hero - not Oscar.


p.s. Thank you so much, Foxbluff, for posting this.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

JUSTICE SEEKERS - March 29 - DailyMail ##########NOTES FOR VALENTINE'S DAY SPEECH REEVA STEENKAMP NEVER MADE##########Below are the rough notes Miss Steenkamp made for the speech at Sandown High School, a co-educational government school in Johannesburg.They are reproduced exactly as she wrote them.#########################################################"Who received flowers/chocolates/cards/messages/tweets/etc today (February 14) for Valentine's Day?Tell them what I received, make a small joke about this. And then tell them that receiving those things is very special but not receiving anything doesn't define you as a person or make you less valued!!!###############1. I was raised on a small farm just outside of Cape Town. In a way I was blessed and privileged to be away from the pressures of city life and I grew up to appreciate the simpler things above the superficial.###############2. I will chat about life on the farm, having no money but being blessed with amazing parents who never allowed me to be aware of my circumstances. Some 'looking back now' points somewhere after this would fit in###############.3. After moving to PE and deciding to study Law despite our financial situation, I worked hard to be acknowledged as one of the top 15 per cent academics at university so that my studies could be 80% covered by bursaries and I worked to pay off the rest.###############4. I broke my back towards the end of varsity. Learnt mobility again and made a massive life decision with regards to my career. I will elaborate on this part of my journey.###############5. I was in an abusive relationship at the same time (his mother used to abuse him) and all together these factors encouraged my move to Jozi.###############6. Despite my height disadvantage and the difficulty in general of breaking into the modeling industry, I put my head down and worked hard towards my dream.###############7. I lost a lot of self worth during my last year in PE before I moved to Jozi and it took some serious soul searching to remind myself of my value in this world.###############8. Being loved by others, although an amazing feeling to have the appreciation of others, does not define your place in the world.###############9. Accept who you are. Acknowledge your absolute 'CAN DOS' in life and work on your 'MAYBES' so that you can be a better person for the ultimate upliftment of those around you.###############10. No matter how many people say that they 'love' you, if you do not love your person then you will never step outside of the physical you. The physical you can only do so much if your mental you is lost inside of all the confusion.###############11. Be brave. Always see the positive. Make your voice heard. Your physical seen. And the presence of your mental you felt. Its that culmination of your person that will leave a legacy and uplift.###############12. I hope that you have the most amazing VD and that you are spoilt with love and roses and chocolates. Go home and tell your parents, siblings, neighbours that they are appreciated. You will go to bed with a happy heart and open mind for the future

This makes me hate OP even more.
He robbed not only her family and friends of their much-loved Reeva - so full of promise for good - but the whole world.

Oscar has a massive ego and entitlement mentality - i.e. a killer who fought bail conditions (SERIOUSLY - if you accidentally killed the person you loved, would you even give a flying f##k about bail conditions?!!).

Reeva had an open, generous, kind, giving heart and soul - it shines through her words and gifts.

(Btw, OP...where’s that Valentine’s Day “bracelet” you bought for Reeva - you know, the gal you “loved” and were “mourning” over at the VIP Room??? We’ll even settle for seeing the paid receipt. Hellz, just the name of the store.)

 

[Lux et Veritas]

He is a killer. A self-confessed killer. And even if (in the unlikely chance) it is ruled an accident, all his skeletons have come out of the closet for all of society to see. He has a history of reckless behavior - drunk boating accident, self-admitted speed freak, he ran over someone's pet..and then put a bullet through its head, he shot through an open sunroof, he shot in a crowded restaurant, he assaulted Taylor-Memmory, he was in possession of unlicensed .38 special ammo, he pulled a gun on his washing machine, as well as on his friend Azzie..because he made a noise getting a drink of water in the middle of the night. He also has a history of threatening people - he told Van der Burgh (who had to get a restraining order against him) that he'd "f#©k him up," he told Batchelor that he'd break his legs, and he snarled "how do you sleep at night" to Gina Myers as he exited the courtroom.........the guy is a loose cannon.

Even if he isn't deemed a danger to society by a court of law, society knows what he has done, and society knows what he is capable of. Acquittal or conviction, he does not possess the qualities or character traits of someone society is likely to "welcome back with open arms."

MOO

BRAVO, Greater Than! So very well said!

Wow, seeing all OP's past transgressions listed together really puts the icing on the cake. Even so much worse in print. Looks like a freaking rap sheet. He truly is a piece of work.

I'm hoping Judge Masipa has the great good sense to keep this rabid animal away from the rest of us - and I fully believe that she does.

 

[Val1]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...k-previous-abusive-relationship-shooting.html

NOTES FOR VALENTINE'S DAY SPEECH REEVA STEENKAMP NEVER MADE

Below are the rough notes Miss Steenkamp made for the speech at Sandown High School, a co-educational government school in Johannesburg.

They are reproduced exactly as she wrote them.

'PE' stands for Port Elizabeth, the town on South Africa's south coast where Miss Steenkamp grew up, while 'Jozi' is South Africa's commercial capital Johannesburg.

Who received flowers/chocolates/cards/messages/tweets/etc today (February 14) for Valentine's Day?

Tell them what I received, make a small joke about this. And then tell them that receiving those things is very special but not receiving anything doesn't define you as a person or make you less valued!!!

1. I was raised on a small farm just outside of Cape Town. In a way I was blessed and privileged to be away from the pressures of city life and I grew up to appreciate the simpler things above the superficial.

2. I will chat about life on the farm, having no money but being blessed with amazing parents who never allowed me to be aware of my circumstances. Some 'looking back now' points somewhere after this would fit in.

3. After moving to PE and deciding to study Law despite our financial situation, I worked hard to be acknowledged as one of the top 15 per cent academics at university so that my studies could be 80% covered by bursaries and I worked to pay off the rest.

4. I broke my back towards the end of varsity. Learnt mobility again and made a massive life decision with regards to my career. I will elaborate on this part of my journey.

5. I was in an abusive relationship at the same time (his mother used to abuse him) and all together these factors encouraged my move to Jozi.

6. Despite my height disadvantage and the difficulty in general of breaking into the modeling industry, I put my head down and worked hard towards my dream.

7. I lost a lot of self worth during my last year in PE before I moved to Jozi and it took some serious soul searching to remind myself of my value in this world.

8. Being loved by others, although an amazing feeling to have the appreciation of others, does not define your place in the world.

9. Accept who you are. Acknowledge your absolute 'CAN DOS' in life and work on your 'MAYBES' so that you can be a better person for the ultimate upliftment of those around you.

10. No matter how many people say that they 'love' you, if you do not love your person then you will never step outside of the physical you. The physical you can only do so much if your mental you is lost inside of all the confusion.

11. Be brave. Always see the positive. Make your voice heard. Your physical seen. And the presence of your mental you felt. Its that culmination of your person that will leave a legacy and uplift.

12. I hope that you have the most amazing VD and that you are spoilt with love and roses and chocolates. Go home and tell your parents, siblings, neighbours that they are appreciated. You will go to bed with a happy heart and open mind for the future

bbm - I'm betting they argued about that.... if nothing else. RS was obviously hurt by it, enough to mention it in a public forum no less!

 

[Greater Than]

BIB I don't see Masipa as the bribing type either. In fact, she appears to be very fair and an advocate of woman's rights having said in another case that women have the right to feel safe in their own home.

But, let's just say, it wouldn't surprise me OP is shown leniency. We just have to look at the bail judge who said that he felt that OP, an accused murder, was entitled to bail. He did preface his statement by saying he wasn't setting precedence and that each case had to be looked at on its own merits, but we know this was already an unusual decision to have a potential murder out on bail.

OPs case was also fast tracked, whereas most people facing trials in SA lament in prison for years waiting for a court date, even if they are innocent.

Yes, the media is forcing the South African legal system to put their best foot forward, but in doing so, they are also showing their inequities because this is not the justice that most citizens receive.

IMO, the approval of the media application to broadcast the trial live is what will ensure justice is served. The world is watching. The judge who approved the application specifically mentioned in his ruling that broadcasting will provide the public with the opportunity to see that there are no inequalities within SA's justice system in regards to the privileged:

Mlambo said South African democracy was still relatively young, and acknowledged a view that “the justice system is still perceived as treating the rich and famous with kid gloves whilst being harsh on the poor and vulnerable.” Enabling a larger section of South African society to get a firsthand look at the trial will go a long way in dispelling “these negative and unfounded perceptions” about the justice system, he said.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1170573/oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-can-be-shown-live-on-tv/

OP was released on bail and later had his bail restrictions lifted prior to the media order. Maybe I'm being naive, but I can't help but think that if the bail hearing and appeal hearing were on center stage like the trial is, that those judges wouldn't have been so lenient.

I also have my own suspicion that the fierce opposition by the DT to allow broadcasting has much to do with this very topic. MOO

 

[Greater Than]

BIB

I read a great article about how good of a job PR companies can do. Unfortunately, I don't have the link any more.

When Tiger Woods was cheating on his wife, everyone thought he was "icky" and no one wanted to be near him. Tiger stepped away from golf for several months and there were even rumours that he was quitting the game. He went back to his roots of religion and charity (real or perceived) and after some time away from the game, he came back.

It's unlikely that OP will be free at the end of this trial, but his public image could be rehabilitated.

Cheating on your wife with multiple women is one thing. Gunning down your trapped girlfriend with bullets powerful enough to stop an elephant is something else entirely.

Did you know the former first lady, Laura Bush caused the death of someone in a car accident. I never knew that and many Republicans swear up and down this never happened. When pressed, they say it was Laura Welch, the time before she was married....go figure

http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/laura.asp

OP's brother Carl killed someone in a car accident a few years ago too.

 

[Greater Than]

BIB This is the first trial that I have watched and I started watching it when OP began testifying. When OP went for his 30-day evaluation, I went back and watched every second of the trial. I found it fascinating and am familiar with his behaviour in court.

However, the average person probably does not. I know co-workers around me know that OP is an Olympic athlete on trial for murder but that's all they know. They don't know about the antics in court or anything more.

If he were to be found not guilty, I'm sure these co-workers would go on their merry way supporting him, just like the Pistorians do outside court every day.

His career is over. He was apparently about to retire in a couple of years anyway. Tiger Woods regained his endorsements when he started competing again and won tournaments. OP's sponsors dropped him after his arrest, and without competing (and winning), he won't be offered any endorsement deals.

This is a moot point anyway, because I think it is next to impossible for him to escape a conviction of some sort. MOO

 

[K.T]

Going back to Firzt Realty party and the February 13th movements of Pistorius.
Yes, something definitey does not add up form his testimony, the other's affidavits or his messages to Steenkamp...

(Thank AJ, jay jay and everyone for previous posts about the Feb 13…Fritz confusion was funny )

Steenkamp spends the 12 Feb night at his house. They wake up together in his house in Pretoria.

Feb 13

• Drives car to J’burg for financial meeting, leaves very early to miss traffic.
• Morning coffee with mysterious, unspecified person from arriving early in J’Burg.
• Morning meeting with a financial advisor – Hears bad news and Steenkamp later commiserates with him in messages.
• Late lunch with Justin Divarus (Divarus affidavit “Oscar and I had a late lunch in Johannesburg” – Samantha Greyvenstien was there at some point and said in her affidavit she tried to convince Steenkamp for a girls movie night in but Steenkamp wanted Pistorius to (not go on a boys night with Divarus) come back Pretoria home for her. Sequence of events NOT what Steenkamp’s texts to OP suggest.)
• Meets with Ryan, estate agent. 15:21:52 OP message to RS “I’m just finishing of with Ryan”.
• Attends party of Firzt Realty Estate – 10th Anniverary of company
• 5pmish drives back to arrive at Pretoria home to meet Steenkamp

Ryan must be Ryan Chaitowitz (Chaitowitz worked at Firzt Realty til Dec 2013, won an award for Sandton real estate).

Colleague at Firzt Realty, estate agent Valerie Berkow-Kaye, told press (days after the shooting on Feb 17th) that Pistorius attended the afternoon party of Firzt Realty Estate 10th Birthday event:

An estate agent who attended a party with Pistorius on the evening of Feb 13 — hours before the shooting said he was “delightful, charming and happy”.
Valerie Berkow-Kaye said: “We were all mesmerised by such a smiley, delightful person. He certainly wasn’t planning a murder on Wednesday afternoon.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...at-central-piece-of-evidence-against-him.html

Telegraph’s SA reporter says Valeriw Berkow-Kaye “tweeted”: One of the staff attendees, Valerie Berkowkaye, tweeted: “He delighted all of us with his interesting childhood stories and was most charming and personable. It is clearly a very tragic accident.”

The facebook of Firzt Realty company has posted on July 9th pictures of a ‘10th Frizt Realty Estate party’, held in a house courtyard in a pool, garden property. It’s hard to know if this is the same party that Pistorius attended or a second event but from the pictures it these events look upmarket, well-attended, family and associates invited, alcohol served. https://www.facebook.com/firztrealt...1406093684./10151540388117877/?type=3&theater

Here’s a twitter account to a @ValerieBerkow-Kaye.
From when I saw it last week she appears to have deleted some information too…? https://twitter.com/ValerieBerkowKa
http://www.firztonline.co.za/Firzt-Realtors/Valerie-Berkow-Kaye/34.agent​

Pistorius was very, very busy on the Feb 13th.
He had bad financial news.
He had been also worrying over the last weeks about the financing of an expensive house he was buying/had bought in J’Burg and was at a meeting with the agent.
He is said to have gone to the agent’s real estate party that would have been up-market and alcohol-served.

Who did he meet in the early morning? Why does Greyvenstein and Divarus appear to lie about Steenkamps intentions? Why does Pistorius omit in testimony that he went to real estate party in Johannesburg…is it because he does want it to be seen he was drinking/partying before he killed Steenkamp? Or, why does Valerie Berkow-Kaye exaggerate about his 'non-intentional' demeanour and presence at her company event?

I think all these activities and prevarications relate to the Pistorius' mindset on Feb 13th - his bad mood, his change of plans to come back to Pretoria while controlling Steenkamp to stay at his home, and then getting others to back up his story however illogical they may sound in retrospect.

 

[K.T]

Psychologist Leonard Carr discusses Pistorius’ behaviour in a radio interview – ‘Provoked or Predictable pattern?’

Leonard Carr interview: “Well, I think if you look back at Oscar’s history this is not a new pattern. Number one: A pattern of poor impulse control, pattern of pattern of aggressive behaviour and one of the things that didn't come out in the trial is his behaviour under the influence of alcohol because it's reasonable to expect that there was some alcohol involved in this incident, right?”
Radio jockey interjects: Yes, tequila...

Carr Cont: "…and also Oscar's pattern of describing situations as if he wasn't involved, he's always the victim, these things always happen around him. And that seems to be consistent with his pattern of behaviour. The another thing is that one would expect, and that this is not only about now, but leading up to the trial, is that someone in his position, especially someone who's so conscious of his image in the media would have been more circumspect in where he went, what he did.

Well remember, this is a man who's changed his defense on the stand, who has blamed his legal team for mistakes and virtually called his legal team liars. So, he's clearly not someone who bends to other peoples authority, you know, he tends to do his own thing.

…It’s not necessarily that a person was trying to pick a fight, in a sense of wanting to fight, but I think when you put yourself in the media you open yourself to people coming up to you asking you questions, challenging you about issues. It goes with the territory of being a celebrity.

…Well, I can’t adjudicate the matter, but all you can say if you take that incident that happened at the party, when he kicked that woman out of the party and they reached an out of court settlement, it sounds like a similar kind of situation, where there's a public incident Oscar loses his cool whatever the provocation is and doesn't seem to have a regard for the effect that's going to have on his reputation.

And the sense of being untouchable, you know - ‘this isn't going to affect me ultimately’."

http://www.jacarandafm.com/post/pistorius-provoked-or-predictable-pattern-leonard-carr-interview/

 

[Hazy]

Going back to Firzt Realty party and the February 13th movements of Pistorius.
Yes, something definitey does not add up form his testimony, the other's affidavits or his messages to Steenkamp...

(Thank AJ, jay jay and everyone for previous posts about the Feb 13…Fritz confusion was funny )

Steenkamp spends the 12 Feb night at his house. They wake up together in his house in Pretoria.

Feb 13

• Drives car to J’burg for financial meeting, leaves very early to miss traffic.
• Morning coffee with mysterious, unspecified person from arriving early in J’Burg.
• Morning meeting with a financial advisor – Hears bad news and Steenkamp later commiserates with him in messages.
• Late lunch with Justin Divarus (Divarus affidavit “Oscar and I had a late lunch in Johannesburg” – Samantha Greyvenstien was there at some point and said in her affidavit she tried to convince Steenkamp for a girls movie night in but Steenkamp wanted Pistorius to (not go on a boys night with Divarus) come back Pretoria home for her. Sequence of events NOT what Steenkamp’s texts to OP suggest.)
• Meets with Ryan, estate agent. 15:21:52 OP message to RS “I’m just finishing of with Ryan”.
• Attends party of Firzt Realty Estate – 10th Anniverary of company
• 5pmish drives back to arrive at Pretoria home to meet Steenkamp

Ryan must be Ryan Chaitowitz (Chaitowitz worked at Firzt Realty til Dec 2013, won an award for Sandton real estate).

Colleague at Firzt Realty, estate agent Valerie Berkow-Kaye, told press (days after the shooting on Feb 17th) that Pistorius attended the afternoon party of Firzt Realty Estate 10th Birthday event:




The facebook of Firzt Realty company has posted on July 9th pictures of a ‘10th Frizt Realty Estate party’, held in a house courtyard in a pool, garden property. It’s hard to know if this is the same party that Pistorius attended or a second event but from the pictures it these events look upmarket, well-attended, family and associates invited, alcohol served. https://www.facebook.com/firztrealt...1406093684./10151540388117877/?type=3&theater

Here’s a twitter account to a @ValerieBerkow-Kaye.
From when I saw it last week she appears to have deleted some information too…? https://twitter.com/ValerieBerkowKa
http://www.firztonline.co.za/Firzt-Realtors/Valerie-Berkow-Kaye/34.agent​

Pistorius was very, very busy on the Feb 13th.
He had bad financial news.
He had been also worrying over the last weeks about the financing of an expensive house he was buying/had bought in J’Burg and was at a meeting with the agent.
He is said to have gone to the agent’s real estate party that would have been up-market and alcohol-served.

Who did he meet in the early morning? Why does Greyvenstein and Divarus appear to lie about Steenkamps intentions? Why does Pistorius omit in testimony that he went to real estate party in Johannesburg…is it because he does want it to be seen he was drinking/partying before he killed Steenkamp? Or, why does Valerie Berkow-Kaye exaggerate about his 'non-intentional' demeanour and presence at her company event?

I think all these activities and prevarications relate to the Pistorius' mindset on Feb 13th - his bad mood, his change of plans to come back to Pretoria while controlling Steenkamp to stay at his home, and then getting others to back up his story however illogical they may sound in retrospect.

I can't help but feel that OP's message 'just finishing AT Ryan refers to a place rather than a person.

Was there a question mark I the sentence too? Perhaps he was unsure of the venue name?

Of course you could be right and I could be wrong lol

But it could be that he was at Ryan before meeting Justin so his late lunch was after 3pm ish and he left for home after this maybe. Lunch is presumably between 12 and 2pm so a late lunch must be sometime after this.

 

[K.T]

I can't help but feel that OP's message 'just finishing AT Ryan refers to a place rather than a person.

Was there a question mark I the sentence too? Perhaps he was unsure of the venue name?

Of course you could be right and I could be wrong lol

But it could be that he was at Ryan before meeting Justin so his late lunch was after 3pm ish and he left for home after this maybe. Lunch is presumably between 12 and 2pm so a late lunch must be sometime after this.

Perhaps. I haven't had time to go through the testimony of Oscar Pistorius to Roux, but in the summary of Lisa's blog Juror13 it says Oscar's testimony was that he met 'Ryan' a real estate person? Will have to listen again to his testimony and see what it says to be sure.

I'm speculating that the Firzt afternoon party Valerie Berkow-Kaye claims Pistorius attended is where he met the estate agent Ryan Chaitowitz. Pistorius was perhaps using shortened, ungrammatical language to suggest he was with/at Ryan's work party.

If these events were before or after meeting Divarus - who knows - a 'late lunch' could be anytime...if there was a lunch...the 'truth' is slippery with this trial.

 

[Hazy]

Indeed he possibly may never have met Divaris that day at all.

He certainly never mentioned it in any text message to Reeva.

 

[kaos]

Perhaps. I haven't had time to go through the testimony of Oscar Pistorius to Roux, but in the summary of Lisa's blog Juror13 it says Oscar's testimony was that he met 'Ryan' a real estate person? Will have to listen again to his testimony and see what it says to be sure.

I'm speculating that the Firzt afternoon party Valerie Berkow-Kaye claims Pistorius attended is where he met the estate agent Ryan Chaitowitz. Pistorius was perhaps using shortened, ungrammatical language to suggest he was with/at Ryan's work party.

If these events were before or after meeting Divarus - who knows - a 'late lunch' could be anytime...if there was a lunch...the 'truth' is slippery with this trial.

Oh K.T. You really should There's a markable difference in his clarity and attitude when he's rattling off his own testimony to Roux compared to the memory lapses and argumentative nature he uses towards Nel. I'm going over OP's testimony again now and have lost count of the amount of times he's tried to slip in 'tampering' into his CE and it's not just the word 'tampering' that he uses. Every single time he mentions it, it's "tampered, disturbed and contaminated".

A bit I noticed yesterday was OP saying to Nel there would be people coming to testify how well him and Reeva got along yet the only defence witnesses that alluded to that were his coach and Prof Derman yet neither of those even met Reeva from my recollection?

I hope Nel also addresses that during OP's CE, he constantly whinged about his watches going missing, the police traipsing through his house touching things, them not wearing protective clothing etc as if they had no right to be interfering in his life. Never mentioning at any point that Reeva and her family were entitled to justice, that Reeva and her family were entitled to a better police investigation. As per usual, it was all about Oscar.

 

[eimajjjj]

Here's an interesting read about the witness timelines and prosecution case. Not much new stuff other than the last paragraph that suggests the first set of sounds was OP firing out of the window and that the bat was just never heard:

http://mathsontrial.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/pistorius-trial-witness-timelines.html

"The prosecution could also assert that the sounds at 3am were unidentified bangs. Is it possible that Pistorius fired his gun out of the open window to the balcony, and then reloaded it? This may have been during a quarrel (viz. sounds heard by van der Merwe). Reeva began screaming; Pistorius shouted back at her and they quarrelled for several minutes; she ran into the toilet and locked the door for self-protection, and at 3:17 he shot four times through the door and killed her. He then shouted for help out the window and telephoned; he banged down the door (sounds unheard by neighbors) while waiting for help to arrive, then put on his prosthetic legs and carried Reeva downstairs.

This would contradict less testiomony: it would agree with the testimony that the screams were loud and unmuffled, that some dimmer light could be seen through the toilet window through the screaming (i.e. light from the bathroom, if the toilet door was open; the light in the toilet was apparently not working), and the testimony from the forensic pathologist that she was standing in front of the door facing it at the first shot, if she were actually locking it. "

 

[K.T]

Kaos: Opps, I worded that badly. I meant I haven't re-listened to Pistorius' testimony just about the 'Ryan' message. But I've heard Pistorius testimony quite a few times before and it is remarkable how his credibility is strained by being petulant, argumentative and yet tellingly vague!

Yes, interesting that there were no close friends of Steenkamp and Pistorius talking about the loving stability of the relationship...considering that the bail hearing was the opposite. Hearing had affidavits from 'Alex' (?), Justin Divaris, Sam Greyvenstein, and Pistorius' cousin Graham Binge all telling the court how he treated her like "gold" and they were supposedly planning to live together in the new J'burg house. Except Divaris has since distanced ('betrayed') himself from Pistorius.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1302/22/sp.03.html

 

[saraomar]

No problem. Let me know if it works.

It works!!! However I will have to open several windows(threads) and individually convert to PDF so I can enough for a 15 hour flight. Wish I could do that to all threads in one click! Many many thanks anyway! Lifesaver!