Trial Discussion Thread #48

[Lux et Veritas]

One of the conditions of OP’s bail is no contact with witnesses.

During the trial, multiple witnesses - including a police officer*- saw and heard OP speak to Gina Myers with his infamous “How do you sleep at night?”

How is this not a violation of his bail terms?

Why wasn’t this violation aggressively pursued by the State?

(One must seriously wonder if he’s also contacted/harassed/intimidated other witnesses, too.)

We saw what happened when OP was allowed to freely drink alcohol and party all night, didn’t we? Why does trouble follow OP everywhere he goes? It’s very clear that OP thinks that NO rules or restrictions should ever apply to him - including trying to literally get away with murder. OP is so brazen, so arrogant, that he publicly spoke to a witness in open court in full view of even a police officer!

The Game has now changed. Nothing is out of bounds for him; he has little else to lose - especially since he no longer has a career and sponsors to keep happy. The guy’s a proven time bomb. If he’s set free, it’s just a matter of time before someone else pays the price.

* Oscar: They’re all LIARS! Everyone against me my whole life are liars! I’m the only one who ever tells the truth (even when I’m lying)!

If this isn’t sociopathic narcissism I don’t know what is.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Wouldn’t you love to be a little mouse at Uncle Arnold’s house?

My, oh my, can you imagine the family discussions, the arguments...the FIGHTS.

One can imagine there’s been no real peace in that house since February 14, 2013.

One must wonder how many in his large family actually believe every word he says?
Surely every one of them cannot be swallowing all his unvarnished horsesh#t?
After all, they know him better than anyone, his history, his temperament, what he’s capable of.

The Pistorius clan may totally be united in public but it’s very likely mayhem and dissension reign in private. Especially after Oscar’s partying/brawl at the VIP Room. LOL

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Theoretically they can be appealed, but there was scarcely any defence put forward, and in the case of the illegally-held ammunition, there was none. And in the restaurant case, OP's own texts convict him.

LESSON:

Stop texting!

People put their entire lives into their smart phones!

(btw...What was OP's family - especially Carl, the IT-trained guy - doing with his personal phone for 10 DAYS before they handed it in to police???)

 

[kittychi]

I admit that I may be very naive about the equality (or lack thereof) within SA's justice system. I live in the US where we have jury trials for serious criminal cases. Private citizens serving as jurors are more likely to be influenced by their own personal bias/prejudices and emotions, and although some juries have IMO disappointingly reached the wrong verdict (OJ Simpson, Casey Anthony, George Zimmerman), I accept and respect those verdicts and I still believe it is the best and fairest system to ensure equal justice. I am digressing, but my point is that I realize that I may be underestimating the influence money and power can have on a court system that does not have trial by jury.

That said, and again, perhaps I'm being overly optimistic, but I truly feel that the vast media attention surrounding OP's case helps to put the pressure on Masipa/her assessors and the appeals court to genuinely seek the truth for Reeva and due process for OP by fairly and accurately applying the law to the facts and circumstances of this case. I hear what you're saying regarding your concern of diminishing public interest after the verdict and sentencing are handed down. I do share your concern, because if for no other reason, the length of time the appeals process is likely to take distances the public and mass-media from the case. But I'm going to remain hopeful that even though the world will no longer be watching on a daily basis, that the appeals court will be acutely aware that whatever their ruling is, it will elicit massive attention again and make headlines world-wide.



Absolutely agree.

BBM: Sorry to be off-Topic, but I wanted to just tag onto your sentence here that I think the money in the US comes into play before a situation gets to a trial, an investigation, etc, especially when there are deep political connections and very deep pockets. I have sadly suspected this has happened in Rebecca Zahau's death. :shakehead:

 

[kittychi]

Wouldn’t you love to be a little mouse at Uncle Arnold’s house?

My, oh my, can you imagine the family discussions, the arguments...the FIGHTS.

One can imagine there’s been no real peace in that house since February 14, 2013.

One must wonder how many in his large family actually believe every word he says?
Surely every one of them cannot be swallowing all his unvarnished horsesh#t?
After all, they know him better than anyone, his history, his temperament, what he’s capable of.

The Pistorius clan may totally be united in public but it’s very likely mayhem and dissension reign in private. Especially after Oscar’s partying/brawl at the VIP Room. LOL

I have been thinking that very same thing, Lux. These are not stupid people. Plus Uncle Arnold watching his money fly right out the window. :gaah:

 

[foxbluff]

FEBRUARY 13, 2013 - Oscar Trial - Day 17 - April 7, 2014 - Juror13 ###############################################
Note the last mgs below. I've always been of the opinion that there was a mistake in original transcription. I think it should read "OP to RS."#
#######################################################################################
Reeva had spent the night before.
10:08am RS to OP – Good luck today baba let me know how things go
OP to RS – Thanks angel
(Oscar had a meeting in Johannesburg that day with a financial advisor)
RS to OP – Baba I hope you don’t mind but I came back to the house to work a bit and do some washing. It will help me a lot to get stuff done and relieve some stress. I’ll go through to Joburg at like 3pm.
RS to OP – It’s a difficult thing to try to console you baba because it’s a ****** thing and you’re a nice guy. I guess these things happen and we can just hope they work out for the best. You are an amazing person with so many blessings and you are more than cared for. Your health and future monetary blessings far outweigh this hurdle I can promise u that.
(Oscar says this message had to do with the financial meeting he had that morning)
OP to RS – Thank you my angel, you don’t have to my angel. Stay tonight if you’d like.
(Oscar says this means he was telling her she didn’t need to go to Johannesburg, she could stay at his place)
OP to RS – I’m just finishing off at Ryan
(this was another meeting that he had that day)
RS to OP – Thank you baba. Let me know if you’d like to spend time with M or Carl. I’m sure you maybe feel like some family tonight.
RS to OP – Angel I’m going to go home at like 6pm. Please stay and do what it is you were going to do.

 

[kittychi]

LESSON:

Stop texting!

People put their entire lives into their smart phones!

(btw...What was OP's family - especially Carl, the IT-trained guy - doing with his personal phone for 10 DAYS before they handed it in to police???)

Not only that, they had the brass to come up with it at the bail hearing as if to brag that they had it and it was not asked for. IMO here is where they began their police investigation fail meme.

 

[44ALLAN]

Well..................I'm trying my best to watch the whole trial again on youtube.

At the moment i'm up to Day 5 Part 1 of Dr.Stipps testimony.
The fun starts at 39.40 mins after roux sits down.

Nel is 'laughing' at the defence version and saying to Stipp....'it gets better'.
He's challenged by Masipa/and Roux but gives her no time whatsoever apart from a cursory 'sorry m'lady' then carries on lol.

He's made to say 'it gets better for the state' version then like the smiling assassin carries on.

Poor Roux tries at least 3 times to counter this Knock out blow but fails miserably IMO ...............classic NEL.

Roux is a cunning old fox but being outplayed by Nel and his 'coaching' of the states witnesses.

Same day 5 Part 1 and XE of DR.Stipp @ 35.25 mins.
Roux tries to set a trap about only 1 door being damaged on the night of the incident.
He's obviously setting a trap for Stipp to say the bedroom door was also damaged.....................Stipp doesn't take the bait but agrees with Roux.............only 1 door damaged on the night.
Roux desperately trying to discredit the witness to no avail.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Ear witnesses are crucial to this case.

Why did witnesses hear different things - or not much at all? That’s been a huge question. Obviously, a lot of elements come into play - distance, level of alertness awaking from sleep, etc.

Two very simple, solid reasons.

1) Oscar and Reeva were moving around the two-story house during the fight - with various windows and doors open/closed (remember, it was a hot night).

This explains the damaged bedroom door (the fight was not in one place and escalated to upstairs). It also validates both Estelle van der Merwe’s claim she heard intermittent arguing and the Stipps’ claim they heard voices get louder or softer, as if the people were walking around). No one fights/yells/screams at exactly the same, 100% consistent tone and volume during a prolonged period (arguing was reported from 1:56am to about 3am). No one can sustain that mega-level of fighting for hours. During fights, there are always intermittent pauses, silences, breaks, intensifications, etc.

2) Throw in “Acoustic Shadow” physics and it all neatly falls into place.

Part of OP’s property was surrounded by walls and trees - part of it was not. Remember, the Stipps open bedroom window was directly across a huge, empty lot from OP’s open bathroom/bedroom windows. However, the immediate neighbors directly to the sides of OP’s house were separated by mutual walls and trees, their bedrooms on far ends from OP’s. They testified to hearing precious little.

“An acoustic shadow is an area through which sound waves fail to propagate, due to topographical obstructions or disruption of the waves via phenomena such as wind currents. ...”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_shadow

Mystery solved.

 

[Ncl1968]

If op family are so mega rich how come op had to sell his house to pay for the lawyers????
Could it be that uncle Arnie said its your mess you pay to clean it up... Or did op just want to sell the house and get sympathy for doing so..

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Yes, and amongst all this sleuthing and debate, it's easy to forget the horrific ordeal that woman went through that night. It was an absolute brutal way to die and I genuinely believe that Masipa will have this in her mind throughout and this disgusting man receives the justice he deserves.

Several different times I’ve tried to imagine, in detail, the exact sequence and events that night, to get a “feel” for the reality. The pain, thoughts, terror, desperation that Reeva surely experienced. I simply could not do it. I had to stop myself each time because it was so brutal and upsetting. It solidifies in my mind exactly what kind of man OP is - a sociopathic coward.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

I have been thinking that very same thing, Lux. These are not stupid people. Plus Uncle Arnold watching his money fly right out the window. :gaah:

Poor Uncle Arnold. LOL I wouldn't be surprised if it was HE who demanded OP sell his house. (I can't see OP ever willingly giving up his stuff and taking full responsibility.)

OP sure is massively hurting his family on multiple, long-lasting levels.

A Greek tragedy.

An (ex) global sports hero becomes an embarrassing, if not downright humiliating, family LIABILITY.

The family should have yanked OP's leash HARD years ago.

Maybe Reeva Steenkamp would still be alive.

 

[foxbluff]

I have copied/pasted below Lux's Reply (Pg. 16 - Post#386) regarding RS's Speech Notes.#######Ty, Lux. I'm responding to last para re: the Val. Day bracelet. Imo, OP was really stumbling around when telling abt the bracelet. Imo, if such a bracelet was purchased it wasn't intended as a gift for RS. For all we know, what set her off that night could be she found a V.Day gift wrapped/addressed to one of OP's other women.###

"This makes me hate OP even more.
He robbed not only her family and friends of their much-loved Reeva - so full of promise for good - but the whole world.

Oscar has a massive ego and entitlement mentality - i.e. a killer who fought bail conditions (SERIOUSLY - if you accidentally killed the person you loved, would you even give a flying f##k about bail conditions?!!).

"Reeva had an open, generous, kind, giving heart and soul - it shines through her words and gifts.

(Btw, OP...where’s that Valentine’s Day “bracelet” you bought for Reeva - you know, the gal you “loved” and were “mourning” over at the VIP Room??? We’ll even settle for seeing the paid receipt. Hellz, just the name of the store.)"

 

[foxbluff]

Today, 04:55 PM #430 Ncl1968 is online now welsh wizzard
Join Date:Apr 2014Location:south Wales ukPosts:118

"If op family are so mega rich how come op had to sell his house to pay for the lawyers????
Could it be that uncle Arnie said its your mess you pay to clean it up... Or did op just want to sell the house and get sympathy for doing so.."
######################################################################################

Fox's Reply to above: I think it could very well have partially been to garner sympathy... him saying he had to sell due to Nel's long-winded cross exams... one person on a jury might have felt sorry for OP, but there's no way a Judge would be swayed by such nonsense. I think the main reason for selling was that there was no way in h*** OP would have moved back into that house considering what some of the earwitnesses must now think of him. moo

 

[Lux et Veritas]

I have copied/pasted below Lux's Reply (Pg. 16 - Post#386) regarding RS's Speech Notes.#######Ty, Lux. I'm responding to last para re: the Val. Day bracelet. Imo, OP was really stumbling around when telling abt the bracelet. Imo, if such a bracelet was purchased it wasn't intended as a gift for RS. For all we know, what set her off that night could be she found a V.Day gift wrapped/addressed to one of OP's other women.###

While your other-woman theory could potentially be true, Fox, (OP has never lacked for women and I wouldn’t put anything past him lol) I see it differently.

You’re so right though, OP was mightily stumbling, but for a far different reason. There never was any bracelet. He was frantically scrambling to fabricate a lie on the stand to prove his “love” for Reeva - of course I got her a Valentine’s Day gift! (I just don’t have any physical evidence whatsoever. I don’t even remember the name of the jewelry store! Just take my word for it - a gorgeous bracelet!)

While OP no doubt really likes the ladies, I see his type as basically a one-woman serial dater. Trying to keep track of and control more than one girlfriend at a time (given his jet-setting competition schedule) would prove too exhausting and confusing. Unfortunately, I think Reeva was simply the latest flavor-of-the-month, who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong guy.

 

[808]

If op family are so mega rich how come op had to sell his house to pay for the lawyers????
Could it be that uncle Arnie said its your mess you pay to clean it up... Or did op just want to sell the house and get sympathy for doing so..

I would say because he is hiding his assets and will declare bankruptcy before the Steenkamps (or someone else) can launch a civil suit against OP.
This happened to OJ Simpson even though he was acquitted. Of course the stage management of his life is spun through his PR people so the house sale is a "poor OP" event. The USB drives taken from his safe by his people on the night of the murder could have had hidden financials on them too.

MOO

 

[44ALLAN]

I always thought that could have happened, but the State don't seem to have entertained it, so perhaps it's been forensically disproved (don't ask me how)

Number of shell cases and bullets in chamber etc etc.

It may have been possible but how can the state prove it?

Aimee and Carice took phones and bags from the scene.........alledgedly

Who knows what else they took..............t-shirt/socks/bullets/casings the list is endless !

Nel doesn't need to go there to be honest it would just muddy the waters in favour of the defence............he has enough already.

 

[soozieqtips]

If op family are so mega rich how come op had to sell his house to pay for the lawyers????
Could it be that uncle Arnie said its your mess you pay to clean it up...
Or did op just want to sell the house and get sympathy for doing so..

Sympathy, for sure. Didn't we all shed a few tears :floorlaugh: when the poor sausage had to sell a couple of his racehorses?

His family is stinking rich, but if they pay for everything, how will we ever know how much poor OP is having to suffer for the unfortunate 'mistake' he made in killing Reeva? The clan never miss an opportunity to make the public aware of how hard this is on OP, whether emotionally, or financially. I wouldn't be surprised to see his prosthetic legs for sale on eBay soon.

 

[kaos]

Something I've just noticed because I'm now watching the multi-talented Roger Dixon - he mentions there were two light switches in OP's bedroom that had blue LED lights on them and indicates (using pointed fingers as instruments ) that they're side by side. He then says that both the toilet and bathroom lights are controlled by the same switch that's on the right hand side of the wall before the bathroom. I'm assuming as I can't see a wall at the right hand side of the bathroom entrance (where the closets are) that this must mean the right hand side of the bedroom wall before entering the passageway that leads to the bathroom? And if there are two switches close together then it would surely mean the other switch controlled the bedroom light? OP said on the stand to Nel he didn't know why he didn't switch the bedroom light on and just switched the bathroom one on, but if they were that close together then it's even more incredulous that he wouldn't have switched both on together if they were side by side.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

[/B]
Sympathy, for sure. Didn't we all shed a few tears :floorlaugh: when the poor sausage had to sell a couple of his racehorses?

His family is stinking rich, but if they pay for everything, how will we ever know how much poor OP is having to suffer for the unfortunate 'mistake' he made in killing Reeva? The clan never miss an opportunity to make the public aware of how hard this is on OP, whether emotionally, or financially. I wouldn't be surprised to see his prosthetic legs for sale on eBay soon.

LOL And when there are ZERO takers on eBay for his legs (who in their right minds would be caught with the murderous things?!), poor OP would be crushed, his psyche all but destroyed (I can hear the wailing, howling and puking from here!). He would have little choice but to voluntarily commit himself to the tender care of the kind doctors at Westkoppies!

P.S. He might have better luck on eBay with The Green Bucket (Certified100% Sanitized © ® &#8482.