BBM: Yup, I agree. If there was anything to show...receipt, name of store, statement from store employee that OP was there, etc., it would have been trumpeted from Pretoria to all over the world.
Trial Discussion Thread #48
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BBM: Yup, I agree. If there was anything to show...receipt, name of store, statement from store employee that OP was there, etc., it would have been trumpeted from Pretoria to all over the world.
I have read several places that OP had his house up for sale for quite some time before this because he wanted to move to J'berg. So the whole thing about them living in a house together in J'berg was a convenient rumor for OP as he had been planning to move there all along, well before meeting Reeva.
eimajjjj
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It's shocking the amount of times OP blames his legal team, telling the court he told his legal team something but they 'forgot' to put it in the bail affadavit (door slamming/onto the balcony etc) or are too incompetent to put the right questions or evidence to witnesses (fan positions and so on).
Now I don't watch a lot of trials but I just imagined Roux standing up and saying "You know what M'lady. He's talking total and utter bollocks and I've had enough. He never told us that. In fact, this is the first I've heard about all this and I'm having an incredible time keeping up with this sniveling rascal. I'm done with this racket." and walks off. I wonder if that would be instant sentencing for OP or a mistrial!
Now I don't watch a lot of trials but I just imagined Roux standing up and saying "You know what M'lady. He's talking total and utter bollocks and I've had enough. He never told us that. In fact, this is the first I've heard about all this and I'm having an incredible time keeping up with this sniveling rascal. I'm done with this racket." and walks off. I wonder if that would be instant sentencing for OP or a mistrial!
BBM: Before the trial started, there was talk about the Steenkamps in talks with OP about a settlement, but that it did not get settled. It was for some measly amount too, amounting to about $275,000 USD. A pittance compared to what they should receive. I have never heard a status update on this story.
http://www.si.com/olympics/2014/01/23/oscar-pistorius-murder-reeva-steenkamp-trial-settlement
Lux et Veritas
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Exactly, Kitty. That OP could provide NO evidence of a "bracelet" proves at least two things:
OP was NOT in love with Reeva. What man in love doesn't get his lady a Valentines's Day gift???
He's a serial LIAR whose Bail Affidavit, Plea Explanation and Testimony are 100% suspect on every level.
Once your credibility is shot with a massive whopper, what other defense do you have left?
There is absolutely zero doubt in my mind that he intentionally, very deliberately murdered Reeva.
COUPLE OF QUESTIONS:
1. "WEARING OP's CLOTHES"
I have been listening to some of the testimony I missed (before discovering it was available on youtube.com). On April 15th (session 1) Nel is x-examining OP about the inside out jeans and OP states that Reeva was wearing HIS CLOTHES (I think he means specifically his shorts). I never realized this. I was focused on black tank top (whether it was the same top she wore when arriving that evening thru guard gate). After hearing that I realize pic of her at base of stairs, shorts very long and baggy for woman. Especially someone with her great shape, it's a hot, muggy night with no air conditioning - seems more likely she would wear smaller, better fitting female PJ type shorts, or perhaps just underwear & tank type top in this weather. Certainly before wearing these long, heavy, ugly basketball length guys shorts. OP originally said to Nel, "when I arrived home Reeva was already in her pajamas, fixing dinner". Later, when Nel suggests RS may have been "taking off jeans" (reason inside out) to change & leave, OP says "why would she take off her clothes and put on my clothes if she were getting ready to leave? Why wouldn't she put on her own clothes, if this hypothetical argument were true?"
Do you think it's possible that as things got extremely heated, she grabbed the jeans from the laundry room (that she had previously washed - likely turned inside out when washed - saves from fading), and ran upstairs, locked bedroom door to keep OP out, get dressed and leave? In the middle of this, OP damages bedroom door & busts in. Yanks the jeans from Reeva and they land on floor. She needing to put on something & get out- but now can't get to jeans - grabs a pair of OP's shorts she sees to throw on - doesn't exactly want to run outside in underwear (or perhaps, no bottoms at all at this point). These may be the 2nd pair of pants he's yanked away. 1st pair may be the pair at the bottom of the window. (Just a thought - could see OP mocking Reeva's cries for help, yelling "help, help, help" out the bathroom window, while in the process of tossing those 2nd pair of jeans out.)
My QUESTION...was any of this discussed or cleared up later? RS wearing OP's shorts? Seems so unlikely that AFTER DOING her wash and having clean items, that Reeva would be welcoming OP home after this "nasty, terrible, no-good day" of his and preparing a thoughtful pre-Valentine's Day dinner for him (with VD gift to OP wrapped and displayed on the counter) . . . . that she would welcome him home at 6pm dressed in his own baggy, sloppy, heavy basketball shorts. As thoughtful and aware of others as she seems, this does not feel like something she would welcome him home in on this night.
2. DUVET
The duvet tossed on the floor may indicate the argument started to initially get heated while in bed.
3. VALENTINE GIFT from OP
I thought I read that the Valentine's Day gift OP claimed to have ordered for Reeva long ago was from a jewelry store located in J'burg. (but perhaps this is incorrect & was located in diff city.) If this is correct - OP spent the entire day in J'burg. With what sounds like a lot of time between appts, events, etc. So why wouldn't he have picked up the gift he ordered and brought it home that day? Knowing VD is tomorrow. Unlikely he would want to make that long drive back unnecessarily, just to get the item he could have picked up 2/13 while there all day, and now knowing she would be spending night & waking up with her on VD morning - exchanging gifts. I also think that any bracelet & charm (or 2 bracelets, . . . I've read different things) he prev arranged to buy her as VD gift would have been on display, in court - front & center (like RS's card to OP was) as evidence for Judge, if he had truly bought it like he said. To show what a great, loving, thoughtful boyfriend he was. But the defense didn't, . . . which says a lot.
I personally think there's a strong possibility he didn't get a gift or card and thought his "gift" would be the trip he arranged (without checking with her) through his agent to bring RS on trip to ??? (I forget the location) so "she could see what he has to go through to ready for race, blah blah, blah). After getting sponsors to approve to "pay for her flight & expenditures" (not OP buying her ticket, etc. No way) he would let her come & she would LEARN all about his difficult challenges in his racing world career.
Further speculation - but perhaps it conflicted with her schedule and the contract she asked him to overlook and then things got ugly. How could she pass up this wonderful "gift" from OP. how could she put her career 1st? How dare she! (Of course, just speculating..but whether VD gift or not, I do think trip came up that evening & may have been something RS could not afford time off to take, dropping previous commitments, obligations or opportunities.) The timing would make sense, as I believe his agent just got matter approved & finalized earlier that day or day before.
Any clarification, corrections or insight on these topics would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
1. "WEARING OP's CLOTHES"
I have been listening to some of the testimony I missed (before discovering it was available on youtube.com). On April 15th (session 1) Nel is x-examining OP about the inside out jeans and OP states that Reeva was wearing HIS CLOTHES (I think he means specifically his shorts). I never realized this. I was focused on black tank top (whether it was the same top she wore when arriving that evening thru guard gate). After hearing that I realize pic of her at base of stairs, shorts very long and baggy for woman. Especially someone with her great shape, it's a hot, muggy night with no air conditioning - seems more likely she would wear smaller, better fitting female PJ type shorts, or perhaps just underwear & tank type top in this weather. Certainly before wearing these long, heavy, ugly basketball length guys shorts. OP originally said to Nel, "when I arrived home Reeva was already in her pajamas, fixing dinner". Later, when Nel suggests RS may have been "taking off jeans" (reason inside out) to change & leave, OP says "why would she take off her clothes and put on my clothes if she were getting ready to leave? Why wouldn't she put on her own clothes, if this hypothetical argument were true?"
Do you think it's possible that as things got extremely heated, she grabbed the jeans from the laundry room (that she had previously washed - likely turned inside out when washed - saves from fading), and ran upstairs, locked bedroom door to keep OP out, get dressed and leave? In the middle of this, OP damages bedroom door & busts in. Yanks the jeans from Reeva and they land on floor. She needing to put on something & get out- but now can't get to jeans - grabs a pair of OP's shorts she sees to throw on - doesn't exactly want to run outside in underwear (or perhaps, no bottoms at all at this point). These may be the 2nd pair of pants he's yanked away. 1st pair may be the pair at the bottom of the window. (Just a thought - could see OP mocking Reeva's cries for help, yelling "help, help, help" out the bathroom window, while in the process of tossing those 2nd pair of jeans out.)
My QUESTION...was any of this discussed or cleared up later? RS wearing OP's shorts? Seems so unlikely that AFTER DOING her wash and having clean items, that Reeva would be welcoming OP home after this "nasty, terrible, no-good day" of his and preparing a thoughtful pre-Valentine's Day dinner for him (with VD gift to OP wrapped and displayed on the counter) . . . . that she would welcome him home at 6pm dressed in his own baggy, sloppy, heavy basketball shorts. As thoughtful and aware of others as she seems, this does not feel like something she would welcome him home in on this night.
2. DUVET
The duvet tossed on the floor may indicate the argument started to initially get heated while in bed.
3. VALENTINE GIFT from OP
I thought I read that the Valentine's Day gift OP claimed to have ordered for Reeva long ago was from a jewelry store located in J'burg. (but perhaps this is incorrect & was located in diff city.) If this is correct - OP spent the entire day in J'burg. With what sounds like a lot of time between appts, events, etc. So why wouldn't he have picked up the gift he ordered and brought it home that day? Knowing VD is tomorrow. Unlikely he would want to make that long drive back unnecessarily, just to get the item he could have picked up 2/13 while there all day, and now knowing she would be spending night & waking up with her on VD morning - exchanging gifts. I also think that any bracelet & charm (or 2 bracelets, . . . I've read different things) he prev arranged to buy her as VD gift would have been on display, in court - front & center (like RS's card to OP was) as evidence for Judge, if he had truly bought it like he said. To show what a great, loving, thoughtful boyfriend he was. But the defense didn't, . . . which says a lot.
I personally think there's a strong possibility he didn't get a gift or card and thought his "gift" would be the trip he arranged (without checking with her) through his agent to bring RS on trip to ??? (I forget the location) so "she could see what he has to go through to ready for race, blah blah, blah). After getting sponsors to approve to "pay for her flight & expenditures" (not OP buying her ticket, etc. No way) he would let her come & she would LEARN all about his difficult challenges in his racing world career.
Further speculation - but perhaps it conflicted with her schedule and the contract she asked him to overlook and then things got ugly. How could she pass up this wonderful "gift" from OP. how could she put her career 1st? How dare she! (Of course, just speculating..but whether VD gift or not, I do think trip came up that evening & may have been something RS could not afford time off to take, dropping previous commitments, obligations or opportunities.) The timing would make sense, as I believe his agent just got matter approved & finalized earlier that day or day before.
Any clarification, corrections or insight on these topics would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
LOL And when there are ZERO takers on eBay for his legs (who in their right minds would be caught with the murderous things?!), poor OP would be crushed, his psyche all but destroyed (I can hear the wailing, howling and puking from here!). He would have little choice but to voluntarily commit himself to the tender care of the kind doctors at Westkoppies!
P.S. He might have better luck on eBay with The Green Bucket (Certified100% Sanitized © ® ™.
:silly: :floorlaugh:
Lux et Veritas
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Yes, he had his house up for sale since 2011.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Pistoriuss-home-on-the-market-since-2011-20130219
Another massive OP LIE.
Lux et Veritas
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You know a criminal defendant is lying, scummy, 100% guilty BAD NEWS when he throws literally everyone under the bus - including his own defense team.
But it seems Roux got his revenge - his pathetic, hapless defense “experts” who not only too often contradicted OP’s version, but helped prove the State’s case more times than not AND helped get his client shipped off to Westkoppies! Not to mention all the other defense witnesses Roux supposedly could not get to testify. haha
NOT a good idea to piss off your own attorney!
I could be wrong, but I think there’s at lease a slim chance that Roux has very quietly, very slickly, very deliberately helped pave the way to prison for his client. (Payback’s a tough mamacita, ain’t it, Oz?)
But, hey, Roux’s not at all worried - he’s still got the appeal to look forward to. Roux may be even smarter than we think - he gets his GUILTY, nasty, obnoxious client sent upriver AND still gets paid the mega-big bucks no matter the verdict. LOL
My husband is a lawyer and says that it is common for a client to get a new attorney for an appeal and that Roux would likely welcome it, LOL.
Another place I would like to be a fly on the wall is those defense team meetings. They have to be pulling their hair out.
4MrsB, I can't believe she'd be wearing those clothes through choice either. Remember too that she was supposed to be doing yoga in the bedroom so presumably would also have wanted to shower afterwards. In a new relationship, the night before she allegedly intended to tell OP for the first time that she loved him and she's wearing basketball shorts to bed - I don't buy it.
The Valentine's Day issues were debated on here at the time after OP testified they "weren't going to make a big deal of it". Reeva's actions say exactly the opposite. Her tweets suggest she was looking forward to it, the speech she was going to make specifically mentions it and her gift was her final word on the matter. She did want to feel special that day In his book he writes about sneaking over to a girlfriend's house to blow up balloons for Valentine's Day and painting on the road outside that he loved her so he's perfectly aware of what a big deal it is.
The Valentine's Day issues were debated on here at the time after OP testified they "weren't going to make a big deal of it". Reeva's actions say exactly the opposite. Her tweets suggest she was looking forward to it, the speech she was going to make specifically mentions it and her gift was her final word on the matter. She did want to feel special that day
In his book he writes about sneaking over to a girlfriend's house to blow up balloons for Valentine's Day and painting on the road outside that he loved her so he's perfectly aware of what a big deal it is.
Lux et Veritas
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Excellent post, 4MrsB!
All your theories are not only possible but extremely probable. Very logical deductions on your part, very plausible scenarios. I love the way you think.
In fact, that he was in Johannesburg on the 13th and did not pick up the "bracelet" is beyond damning! That one fact alone brands him 100% not credible; it puts the lie to his entire defense.
I think you're right on the money about OP mocking Reeva with yelling "Help! Help! Help!". It's exactly what you'd expect from a raging sociopath. Then, of course, he had to make up the story about going onto the balcony and yelling "Help! Help! Help!". He knew witnesses had heard him!
I could hardly believe the amount of times he was 'correcting' Nel with very specific trivial detail and yet could never remember much about the stuff that really mattered.
Another random thought from me - were there any photos of Reeva anywhere in OP's house before he killed her and who did he get the photos of Reeva from when he built his little shrine to her in Uncle Arnold's house? I'm guessing he's had them downloaded off the internet because I can't see her family or her modelling agency allowing him access to their pics.
Lux et Veritas
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Good luck to OP on trying to find another attorney who will take that hot mess on. LOL Ozzie might be stuck with Roux.
And oh, yes, those defense pow-wows must be flaming doozies, complete with screaming matches and flying objects (courtesy of OP).
Roux just may have to increase his rate for hazardous duty pay!
Lux et Veritas
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4MrsB, I can't believe she'd be wearing those clothes through choice either. Remember too that she was supposed to be doing yoga in the bedroom so presumably would also have wanted to shower afterwards. In a new relationship, the night before she allegedly intended to tell OP for the first time that she loved him and she's wearing basketball shorts to bed - I don't buy it.
The Valentine's Day issues were debated on here at the time after OP testified they "weren't going to make a big deal of it". Reeva's actions say exactly the opposite. Her tweets suggest she was looking forward to it, the speech she was going to make specifically mentions it and her gift was her final word on the matter. She did want to feel special that day
EXACTLY!!! Well said. I remember that story, too. I believe the girlfriend was Vicky Miles?
What OP really meant was that HE wasn't going to make a big deal out of Valentine's Day. (You tend to do that when you're not in love with someone.)
Even Reeva's card and gift CONDEMN him as a LIAR!
I think his ego is big enough that he probably thinks he can represent himself. He seemed to relish when he could pick up Nel on little details and appeared to know every state witness' testimony word for word. Now that's a trial I'd love to see - OP asking himself questions but no buckets allowed.
Cherwell
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I may be wrong, but I think the ban on contact with witnesses was yet another of the bail conditions that was cancelled. I struggle to think of any that were allowed to stand, frankly.
Cherwell
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I've never believed in the theory that Pistorius was "mocking" Reeva by calling for help.
IIRC this suggestion was made by Michelle Burger, and only because she was pressed and pressed by Roux to come up with an explanation for the male voice shouting for help. In her place I would have stuck to my guns and kept saying "I don't know, you must ask OP".
Far more likely IMO that he had already realised that the burglar story was the only version that could get him out of trouble. He knew that neighbours were likely to have heard something, so he started shouting for help to back up his lie.
IIRC this suggestion was made by Michelle Burger, and only because she was pressed and pressed by Roux to come up with an explanation for the male voice shouting for help. In her place I would have stuck to my guns and kept saying "I don't know, you must ask OP".
Far more likely IMO that he had already realised that the burglar story was the only version that could get him out of trouble. He knew that neighbours were likely to have heard something, so he started shouting for help to back up his lie.
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It is my understanding that he will have to reapply for bail pending his appeals if he is sentenced to prison.
I would hope that getting a bail application approved once one is convicted of the crime would be much more difficult than when one is merely accused.
Lux et Veritas
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That anyone could think this guy is innocent is surreal.
He couldn't be bothered* to buy his "love" Reeva a VD card and gift - but he couldn't get up his Reeva Shrine fast enough for public display.
Sick.
* Just like he couldn't be bothered with getting her birth date correct in open court.
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